Dressage saddle stirrup bar question

[Scribbler]

Here is a link to a Stubben saddle fitting FB page I follow. I find sometimes it’s correct and sometimes wildly or subtly off about things so want to double check.

Claim here is that newer dressage saddles are using longer stirrup bars set further back on the tree to encourage a “modern” dressage seat of standing in the stirrups and getting a longer looking leg. Is this actually a thing? Obviously rider and horse conformation dictate a lot about how the leg looks. Hard to drape on a horse with a really big barrel!!

https://www.facebook.com/1446802992011806/posts/8072414882783884/

[blue_heron]

I do think a longer stirrup bar would benefit me in a lot of saddles. I don’t know what it is about my leg/pelvis but so many saddles put me in a chair seat. Think slipping on a banana peel legs flying out in front of me chair seat. But I think the real issue is that the stirrup bar needs to be set back, not longer.

[BlueDrifter]

Thanks for that link! What an interesting page.

Given the length of a foot, and the desire of hip/heel alignment – it seems to me that the stirrup should hang about 6 inches forward of your hip – which would put your heel under your seat bones. So… would you want it too far back?

[lazaret]

Just looking at the markings here, I think this is malarkey.

She has the rider’s weight going way back on the cantle of a deep seated saddle, which would only be the case if the saddle were too small for the rider.

Logically, putting the stirrup bar further back and the rider more over the knee moves the weight forward, not backward.

Many people find it easier to ride from this position and a lot of horses prefer carrying the weight closer to the base of the withers. It is also a place that moves less which makes it easier when you have a big mover, since you are sitting on a part of the back that moves less.

If you sit in a chair seat, then of course you can’t put weight through the stirrup. The geometry doesn’t work.

[outerbanks77]

@lazaret

Logically, putting the stirrup bar further back and the rider more over the knee moves the weight forward, not backward.

Yeah, I think so much of it depends upon the rider. Also, even if the stirrup bar is longer, won’t most people push the leather all the way forward? Many amateurs are tight in the hips/psoas, so they would end up back on the cantle of a saddle like that. They need a more forward flap and probably a more forward stirrup bar and a shorter stirrup. Someone with flexible hips, who can truly drape the leg can ride with a more vertical thigh and longer stirrup. It would be nice to see more saddles developed for riding in a shorter stirrup, but I don’t know how many of the amateurs who could benefit would actually buy these saddles that are different than what they see the pros using.

[Mander]

@outerbanks77

Many amateurs are tight in the hips/psoas, so they would end up back on the cantle of a saddle like that.

I only recently started taking actual dressage lessons (coming from hunter-land), and have constantly felt like I’m in a chair seat. I’ve been wondering if stirrup bar placement is to blame, but this is also an interesting (and probably very likely) possibility. Maybe a combination of both - I have a very long thigh.

[Bogie]

I have long femurs. I always look for saddles where the stirrup bars are set further back. They are far more comfortable to ride in. I currently ride in a Heather Moffett Vogue and it’s one of the most comfortable saddles I’ve tried. It has set back bars and it makes my leg naturally fall underneath my body. I know that treeless/soft tree saddles are not for everyone but I can’t say enough good things about it.

[lazaret]

The problem is that it’s really difficult to absorb and follow the motion if you sit like that with a more forward flap and shorter stirrup. I think we do need to do better at recognizing that not everyone is a 5-9 all-legs ballerina, so saddles with shorter flaps and higher blocks will help with that. Flexible hips are one piece of it but those who are shorter in the leg have the inevitable problem that the femur does not curve around the barrel, it’s a straight bone that doesn’t bend.

The truth of the matter is you could have a psoas made of pure elastic, but if you have to drive from the hamstring to get up over your lower leg position it won’t matter. The psoas compresses the hip socket and makes it more difficult to rotate the leg from the hip. It doesn’t necessarily prevent you from hanging the leg straight down, that is more a factor of the length of your thigh versus the width of the horse versus the position of the stirrup. Rather the tight psoas prevents the closing of the upper thigh against the saddle - which is actually kind of the opposite of “drape” and a key component of rider biomechanics.

[Einhorn]

IMHO, some of this will be dictated by the rider’s foot size, too. The smaller your foot, the shorter distance needed between your seat and stirrup bar for your legs to be placed correctly.

[outerbanks77]

@lazaret

The problem is that it’s really difficult to absorb and follow the motion if you sit like that with a more forward flap and shorter stirrup. I think we do need to do better at recognizing that not everyone is a 5-9 all-legs ballerina, so saddles with shorter flaps and higher blocks will help with that. Flexible hips are one piece of it but those who are shorter in the leg have the inevitable problem that the femur does not curve around the barrel, it’s a straight bone that doesn’t bend.

Good point about the leg length. I am 5’9" and having enough horse to take up my leg is my issue, so I forget about the other side of the coin. I read somewhere that an ideal horse/rider fit is where the rider’s knee hangs at the widest part of the barrel. Obviously the femur can’t bend, so any “drape” has to come from the orientation of the femur to the horse, and the angle and flexibility of the knees and ankles, with the knees being limited to bi-directional range of motion. have to ride in a forward flap with a high angled block so I can sit in the correct place in the saddle. My 16.3 warmblood takes up my leg well, but I don’t see wanting to ride with a more vertical thigh as we advance (she is green). I ride my smaller, more advanced horse with about the same length of stirrup. There is probably a tipping point (no pun intended) where shortening the stirrups any more will force going into a more forward seat to achieve balance, but I’m not suggesting an AP style flap, just something that is not essentially a straight drop from the pommel.