What’s the point? Is it just to tidy up how the hoof looks? Or is there a structural purpose that I’m missing? Because I just can’t see how filing off the outside of the hoof wall can be doing anything good. It’s a point of contention between me and the last couple of farriers I’ve used. They want to file off flare from the outside of the hoof wall at the end of the trim. I want them to trim the foot properly and let the flare grow down and get trimmed off over time. I think it makes it easier to track progress on how well balanced the trim is and weather the hoof wall is growing out straight with a connected laminae.
Am I wrong? This is three farriers now telling me I’m a crazy person when I ask them not to file the outside of the hoof. I’m happy to be wrong, I’d just like to understand how and WHY.
Answers from one farrier was, “So it can grow out straight.” It grows out from the top. Pressure from the bottom causes the flare. Seems like filing off half of the thickness of the hoof wall would just make it more likely to bend and stretch the laminae.
Another mumbled something about the hoof capsule and kept on rasping.
The last one fired me after trimming one hoof when I demanded he actually explain to me why he had to take so much off of the outside of the wall and told me I can trim my own damn horses. So I am! But I don’t want to have to so please help me understand why or if this dressing of the hoof wall is necessary?
Function follows form. If you leave distortion, distortion continues down. Distortion causes pressure. Pressure causes problems.
So so you can have health lamina and wall from the coronary down but then the strain of the distortion starts applying enough stress to continue the distortion up and start tearing up. Removing distortion removes this pressure and makes it LESS likely to happen.
It also changes the path of travel of the foot.
I have seen farriers to both techniques, but I think the animal regains function and form faster with managing the flare.
This explanation doesn’t quite work for me.
How would the laminae or the internal structures of the hoof know that you had filed off part of the wall? The distortion of the laminae would remain until it had grown down and been trimmed off regardless of what you do to the wall of the hoof. Is that not so? Unless you applied some kind of outside force to actually push the hoof wall back into place the stretched laminae would remain stretched and dressing the flare would only create the appearance of correction. Unless the cause of the distortion is addressed at the bottom of the hoof then it won’t grow out connected. But if that cause is addressed then the distorted hoof wall still has to grow down and be trimmed/worn off. Am I wrong?
The flare of the wall creates the distortion by creating pressure through leverage. By removing the leverage of the flare, the hoof can grow properly and function normally again.
While you would prefer to not remove more than half of the hoof wall, you are most concerned in maintain healthy lamina from being torn and continuing to have improper pressure on it weakening it and weakening the capsule.
If you had a pair of shoes and one had a weird bulge/flare would you walk normally? Or would you start to compensate? If you keep walking on the flare it cracks and the crack spreads. If you file the bulge/flare away then it reduces the pressure and keeps it from splitting.
Flares don’t just “grow out”, they need to be managed. My 9yo has a flare that comes back if my farrier doesn’t keep on top of it. A few years ago I moved across the country to an area with very limited access to farriers. Within one shoeing cycle she let it crack all the way up to the coronet band. In two years the crack never really changed and he had to wear hind shoes. I moved back across the country and in one shoeing cycle the new farrier got the flare under control and the crack started to grow out, in about 10 months there was no evidence of the crack. Now he can be barefoot behind again.
Every time he gets his feet done they have to pay special attention to the spot where he develops the flare, even though it grows down straight there is something about his conformation and the way that he moves that puts pressure on that spot near the sole.
To a point, yes. I get the impression she’s referring to removing ALL flare, all the way up the foot (so OP correct me if I’m wrong, but that’s how I read it).
There’s no point doing that. There is, however, validity to top-dressing the lower portion of the flare so that no, there is no more inappropriate leverage (assuming a properly backed up toe), on a short enough trim cycle, to continue the flare, however minor.
I have been taught to never remove flare above about 1/3 of the toe, and decreasing that as you go back, to no more than 1/4 of the quarters back. The more flare there is, and the higher up it goes, the more you dress it, the more you are thinning the flexibly hard outer wall which has a purpose of providing limited movement/expansion.
I’ve seen a horse mechanically foundered because a big-name barefoot guru subscribed to the notion that all flare must always go, and he did not account for how thin this horse’s walls already were.
Flare DOES grow out, as long as the ground surface of it is properly managed. Proper breakover, and heels back where they belong (and bars properly taken care of) stops the cycle of causing flare, so while you can and usually should remove that lower flare, there’s no point removing above that, assuming you have removed the inappropriate leverage forces.
IMO the difference in opinions comes from the type of trim being applied.
What is called a pasture or farrier trim in my neck of the woods is a flat trim, basically the same as one would do before putting a shoe on. If you leave the flare, there will be some leverage at the ground level.
In a barefoot trim with a mustang roll, the outer wall is not level with the ground, so the leverage from the flare is minimised and you don’t have to dress the wall.
(And in some cases of course flare is best left alone because the horse needs it to compensate for an imbalance elsewhere - but that’s a whole other can of worms haha)
you are correct, it is routine to only maintain the lower 1/3 of the hoof- IN MOST CASES. Usually, above that is still stable. It is however an art, and sometimes exceptions must be made for the health of the lamina and hoof capsule.
I disagree. If the distorting pressure is removed from the bottom of the hoof then the hoof wall will grow straight down and the flare will eventually grow out.
The mare I had such problems with is an Irish Draught, so a heavier horse, and because of the weight prone to quarter flares. Farriers want to dress the flares to make her hooves look better but still leave so much length of hoof wall that the toe gets stretched forward, heels collapse under, and the quarters flare. It has made her heel sore and she had developed a toe first landing It kept her NQR and made her move like a cart horse. Got hoof xrays and had a negative palimar angel. Worked at correcting that with a wedge pad and more dressing the flares so the hoof looked normal from the outside. That kept her in work, but when we pulled the shoes to reset her hoof wall at the quarter was just a few millimeters thick and the actual distortion of the hoof that you could see from the bottom (separation of the white line) was unchanged.
I finally got frustrated enough that I decided I couldn’t do any worse and I trimmed her my self. Backed up her toe and heel, and from the bottom took the quarters down almost level with the sole. After about 8 weeks her hoof was growing down visibly straighter, so the flares WILL grow down if the force pulling the hoof wall away from the internal structures is removed. She made me a nice foal and with a ton of walk work to rehab her heel structures she moves much more nicely and more comfortably.
So what I’m getting from this discussion is that the idea of removing hoof wall to address flare is quite prevalent and I’m probably going to be stuck trimming my own horses. Which sucks because it’s a lot of work and I’m slow as a slug at it. And my yearling starts nosing my butt when he runs out of hay and I don’t want him getting cute and biting me! Is there some division about this in the farrier world? If I find a “barefoot” trimmer are they more likely to listen to reason? I’ve been very frustrated by these macho man farriers coming in and savaging my horses feet because they know everything and I’m just a ridiculous girl.
Just saw this. So the barefoot people want to file it off too?
That’s just poor trimming vs good trimming. Many farriers know how to trim a bare foot to relieve the outer wall. Many do not (and I wouldn’t want them doing my shod horses either lol).
(And in some cases of course flare is best left alone because the horse needs it to compensate for an imbalance elsewhere - but that’s a whole other can of worms haha)
Yes! Good point. Not all flare is flare that can or should be removed, not all flare is stretching. There’s more to flare or “flare” than just a deviation from the perfect cone shape.
So what I’m getting from this discussion is that the idea of removing hoof wall to address flare is quite prevalent and I’m probably going to be stuck trimming my own horses.
What you’re describing is a lack of competent trimming, period. It doesn’t matter what he was or wasn’t doing to the top of the foot, he clearly was not doing anything right from the bottom if you ended up with a NPA 
Top removal of the bottom portion of flare is not an evil thing. I know one farrier who won’t ever do it, period, and he manages to get it grown out, though I can’t say I’ve ever seen an example of this on a bare foot, just shod. Shoes have the benefit of being able to put the breakover exactly where it belongs, regardless of what you could or did trim.
Heck, even if you’re starting with a super long (flared) toe, you’re “removing” flare just in the process of backing that toe up, you’re just not necessarily doing it from the top. BUT, if you start by removing lower flare, from the top, THEN you work on the bottom of the foot, you end up with relatively little removed from what’s left of the properly trimmed foot, if that makes sense.
Which sucks because it’s a lot of work and I’m slow as a slug at it. And my yearling starts nosing my butt when he runs out of hay and I don’t want him getting cute and biting me!
Is there someone to help you with him when you’re working on the fronts? I get it that they are so so nosy at that age, but he has to learn he can stand there quietly without a distraction lol Cross ties and an “oops, sorry!” elbow to the nose can work well :winkgrin:
Is there some division about this in the farrier world? If I find a “barefoot” trimmer are they more likely to listen to reason? I’ve been very frustrated by these macho man farriers coming in and savaging my horses feet because they know everything and I’m just a ridiculous girl.
As above, you have a farrier who can’t trim properly. Find a farrier OR trimmer who can, and the problem is solved. It doesn’t matter if they remove lower flare from the top (which really should be done BEFORE working on the bottom, IMVHO) There are plenty of egotistical trimmers, just like farriers. Plenty of trimmers who shouldn’t be, and plenty of farriers who can properly trim for shoes or not.
It’s not a trimmer vs farrier ideology.
But that assumes that the flare is being caused by some external force (like bad trimming) and not by the horse’s own conformation and way of moving. Most horses will not wear their feet evenly, no matter what type of trimmer/farrier works on their feet. Trimming/shoeing is a lot about managing the hoof problems caused by the rest of the horse and its job.
I also agree with others that there is only good trimmers/farriers and bad ones. My farrier is a great trimmer, and shoes horses that need it. 2 of my horses are barefoot, and one is shod. 95% of his trim process is exactly the same, based on the hoof and the conformation of the horse, and finished depending on whether they have shoes or not.
My farrier does not use the terms “flat trim” v. “barefoot trim”…Sounds like a “flat trim” is an unfinished job on a barefoot horse?
But you’re assuming that whatever caused the flare in the first place isn’t still there and/or isn’t going to come back. Like I said before, if the flare is due to the horses conformation then short of altering the trim enough to change the horses conformation and way of going (which may just cause more issues further up) it’s going to come back unless it’s managed.
When I say managed I mean the farrier stays on top of it, keeping the flare at the bottom 1/4 to 1/3 of the wall under control. Going any higher then that is going to risk some weakness.
Save the horse a lot of grief and just sell it.
I cannot not believe you continue to argue that you know more than three farrier’s and a plethora of hoof experienced people on this forum.
your mind is already made up that you are right and no one else knows anything — folks are wasting their kindness and time on someone who only wants to argue it’s their way or the highway.
Actually, no. I’m interested in hearing information I have not come across before. I find this forum a useful way to connect with a variety of knowledgeable folks outside of my personal circle. The best discussions aren’t fueled by agreement, so I try to lay out my thought process to allow others to explain any breaks in my logic. And I moved cross country last year so I don’t have a deep bench of farriers. I thought I might try to get a better understanding of the situation before I set up another trial run.
You seem to have been upset by my comments. Guess I better go sell my horses now.
Perhaps post photos. It’s hard to figure out what’s going on from the description.
What other resources are you using to educate yourself to understand hoof care and trimming? My guess is that this information is probably explained better in something like a book or video as part of a farriery course than it will be by anyone on a message board. Or, by some farriers who may understand what to do but not be able to explain it in layman’s terms. Or by farriers who simply do not want to have to explain what they have learned over many years to you.
I love my farrier and I enjoy learning from him, but it would not be possible for him to take his 4 years of apprenticeship, 20 years of experience, and many continuing education experiences and dump it into my head. At some point I have to trust that he knows what he is doing. His ability (or desire) to explain it to me is not part of the job.
Maybe someone can refer a good book or resource that would talk in much more depth about this topic.
If it’s a bad trim job to begin with that needs to be fixed first. Dressing down the flare but having wrong angles, long toes, etc is a bit of putting the cart before the horse eh?
Is why I want to see photos.
What’s being described doesn’t sound right to me but I am not going to say either way unless I see photos.
In the past my very good farrier did a bit of a resection on some mechanical separation on my horse, on vets recommendation (he is a trained farrier too). It looked ugly but it fixed a problem that had been persistent for about 6 months. Like cutting off a split end so the hair stops splitting.
A tight mustang roll that gets the outer wall off the ground and is maintained by the owner between trims can also help.
The issue with flaring is hoof wall separation not the flare per se.
I can’t see just dressing the outer wall but sometimes more decisive action is needed.
