I have a now weanling that I will be keeping and bringing on my self. He is going to be big (17-ish hh), and I would like to give him plenty of time to grow before I start sitting on him. I know driving young horses is popular in some circles. I used to own his dam. She was taught to drive as a 2yo (before I had her) and weather the driving had anything to do with it she had a lovely mind when I got her as a 5yo.
My real question is how early should this work be started? At what point does driving diverge from classical ground work? I’m comfortable starting a young horse under saddle and doing dressage work in hand, but I’m more looking for something to teach his brain that won’t be too taxing on his bones. Is pulling a light cart actually that much easier? What about bending? I assume that lateral work could be counterproductive? Can driving still develop the back muscles properly? Is this too many questions?
Any input would be appreciated. I don’t have to figure this out for another year+, but it’s never too early to start planning for your child’s education!
What we find with big horses trying to train them young, is lack of attention. Time span of learning is VERY SHORT, less than 15 minutes in most cases. You can do “the normal stuff” in handling, wear tack, both saddle and harness to get used to the feel. Patience while putting it on and off. Do you have a second horse you can pony the young one from? That can be fun for him, seeing new things with a steady partner to gain confidence. Straight line riding at slow speeds slowly builds dense bone, no torquing soft joints doing circles as in lunging. All ours loved being ponied, going places with the other horse. I will add that mares may develop a brain before geldings. Geldings seem to be more comedians longer. If you push for obedience, they develop evasions as part of the fun. They LOVE the game aspect of that! You might as well put horse back in the field to grow more instead of letting him learn bad things evading directions. He truly can’t focus long enough to learn yet.
For a 17+ finish size, he will be growing until age 7 years. His spine and thick bones are the last to stop growing. Have you ever read anything by Dr. Deb Bennett? Her growth research is very interesting reading. You can do a search for her work. It used to be posted on the Rural Heritage site but I have not been there for a while to know it is still up.
I know this is contrary to current training development of young horses, but we do no jumping training, no real sustained Dressage work, until a horse is at least 6 yrs. His body is not finished, repeated practice without proper SLOW muscle development can cause soft tissue injuries. He has never been fit, that takes slow, consistant, daily work towards building his mature body. We do work them at about age 4yrs and up, on long lines in 60+ft circles, nothing smaller. Body has a slight bend or can be going straight with a turn. Not all circles are actually round in training! Ha ha Too hard on the soft bones. We do not lunge at all, because the 2 long lines give much better body control at both front and rear. Horse learns and expands his basic voice commands on the lines. He MUST stop NOW when he hears “Ho”. This is your brakes on a Driving horse, not allowed to do anything else, no extra steps. We move to trot, then polish him doing different trots, slow, working, extended, with those voice commands, in both directions. Here is where horse will start dragging a tire, not heavy, just adds to the feel of harness in use.
I KNOW what other folks do with their animals, many trainers have big reputations. I also see and read about the damaged, unsound animals, horses with issues that need constant treating to be used. Who came from places that broke and trained them young to be competed before age 6yrs. Many jumped regularly starting at 3yr or so. This work so young is hard on a horse. I plan to get MANY years of use from a horse I invest so much time in, so we let them grow up before using them harder. They stay sound into old age, no issues unless an injury happens.
Driving is not putting much weight on horse back. However you can easily go more miles than you would ever ride him! No saddle sores, body tiredness like you get with riding!! A light cart (2 wheels) doesn’t take much effort to move unless you get into sand or mud. Get a cart with a backrest, they are MUCH more comfortable to ride in. You want a wide harness saddle, 4inches or more, to spread shaft weight on his back area. Also a wide breastcollar for the same reason, spreads out the load on his chest. You want a saddle with a tree inside to keep weight off his bony spine. Synthetic material harness is easy to care for, over leather. Lots available used, less cost than new.
If your young horse is going to be that big, I would suggest, at the very least that you work towards ground driving as a way to work his brain and his body w/out the physical stress of lunging circles. I had a (smaller) mare that I started walking in fields and some woods at yearling age - on a lunge line in case she got stupid…, later behind w/ two reins. Also ponied her some, just in a fenced field. Taught her voice commands. Put her under saddle for 30 days at 3 or so, then after working w/ a drag and some other steps, hooked her to a light cart. Took lots of time, it was fun but we didn’t rush. Super good. She was to be an all around horse; the driving helped enormously. It builds a different relationship and I think gives them confidence.
I will tell you also that for those of us who may be inclined to go too fast w/ a young horse, this gives a great opportunity to slow down, do it correctly but still feel like YOU are doing something.
I am in the same boat with a weanling Belgian Draft whose parents were 17.1-17.3hh. We’ve had him two months and he started out not halter broke with his only experience in the trailer being the six hour drive from the breeder. He is now reasonably halter broke, loaded in the trailer like a champ today, does some rudimentary lungeing (walks, stops, and changes direction on a large circle-like figure), and has been introduced to some rein flexions in-hand with a bitless bridle.
This coming year my goals include:
wearing a training harness
Long lining/ground driving
wearing a full harness
getting used to noises associated with driving (I drag the tire, poles, and cart)
As a really young horse I wouldn’t bother with a bit at this point and would use a halter, sidepull, or some other bitless option for your long line work until he is older. For my three year-old I started with a sidepull and moved to a cross-under. The weanling is going to start with a StarWheel hackamore/bitless bit.
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To more directly answer your questions:
You can start now, but you keep the activities (and length thereof) age-appropriate. I would suggest not dragging anything until he is at least two just as I wouldn’t back a horse under three and keeping it light and short, saving the start of serious work for five years and older.
Good driving work shouldn’t diverge from classical work on the lines except in the driving-specific activities like getting used to noises, introducing pressure in the (breast)collar and breeching, and dragging stuff. If you watch any Advanced level CDE competitions they are even doing canter work, extensions, and collected gaits. Doing lateral work is really beneficial as a good tight turn in a cart is essentially a working pirouette because the horse has to pivot on the axel of the vehicle rather than its hip or forehand.
A horse should bend when driving. It is easy to allow a horse to just do it’s own thing while driving and not ask it to work properly over its back, but it can and should be done (did you know the Spanish Riding School also does driving?) to optimize a horse’s longevity. Plus if a horse is bending properly it will move more fluidly while pulling.
I also like Dr. Bennett’s work. She is an excellent read.
Thank you all for your thoughtful responses! I have read Dr. Bennett, and that is one of the things motivating me to stay off of him. I plan on having this horse the rest of his life, and taking him to his breed inspection when he’s good and ready (not a minute before), so I’m in no hurry. I want him sound and happy for as long as possible.
We live in the southwest, so despite the fact that there is NOTHING here for miles and miles, turnout is limited and a “pen” system is more prevalent. This is complicated by his still having testicles, which I’m planning on keeping unless/until he proves unworthy or becomes a bastard. He has to come out of the mixed herd soon, and I’m planning on getting him a gelding, but exercise can do a lot to improve the personality of young men horses. I also believe that stallions should have the BEST manners of any gender, and being taught a skill would give us something to focus on while he remembers to keep his mouth to himself and not stare at the fillies across the fence.
Ground driving is something I’ve thought of to work on steering and stopping, and maybe get me some exercise too. I like the sidepull idea, especially while he’s young and dumb (which could be quite some time) so he isn’t beating up his mouth so much.
I really like the idea of ponying him. The straight lines being easier on his connective tissue and there is a serious network of trails alongside the canal system here. I could drag him around for days. And what a way to build those interhorseonal skills that stallions so rarely develop. It’s one of the reason they get reputations for being such fire breathing dragons! I bet if I was kept in a box by my self my whole life I wouldn’t know how to act at a horse show either. One thing I worry about ponying is developing the wrong muscles, like those on the underside of his neck. I’ve always worked with the kind of fancy warmbloods that you would never pony for fear of breaking (but riding them at 3 is somehow fine?) so my interpretation of ponying comes from watching western friends and race horse folks. Is there a better way? I have horses I can practice with, but I would like to do this as safely as possible.
For successful ponying, he should be easily controlled from the ground, using both voice and lead shank for directions. We do pretend Halter/Showmanship practice with young horses. Practice adds a minute or two in daily handling time as you lead him places. Stop, square up, Ho and stand still for a count of ten, then ask him to walk off. You are asking him to stand or move, before he breaks, not his choice. Times increase standing, you move around him etc. This leading work teaches them about “your space” and not pushing into it. They follow out to your side, not ahead or dragging behind. They learn to keep up with a brisk walk or slow if you do, on a slack shank. It should get automatic with practice, not need much correcting. For halting, I give a warning word softly. We use Hup, then say Ho to halt. He MUST stop when told Ho. The warning word lets him “help you” in being prepared to stop and not being surprised in you stopping or needing a correction for his not stopping. He will learn to turn in a short space with this halter practice, with you ALWAYS going around him so he does not swing rump way out in the turns. Left hand turns just seem to reduce your control, unless you are leading him from his right side to keep his body in a tight turn.
Get him good to lead on the ground before trying to pony him. A ground person will be helpful the first couple sessions as the 3 of you (colt, you, ridden horse) come to an understanding of the new exercise.
I always use a chain shank OVER the nose when teaching the above skills to young horses. Over does not seem to promote over reaction if you need to bump nose as a reminder about WHO is leading whom. We never put a chain under the jaw as a training tool, has never worked well teaching them anything here. I would continue to use the chain shank OVER his nose for ponying him to keep better control, especially for halting. You can “bump” the chain gently on his nose, remind him he is NOT “wild and free” to regain his attention. Shank itself should be a longer one, at least 10ft in case he should be silly. A spook will have him jump, but longer shank still keeps a hold on him, not ripped out of your hands like a short shank will be.
For a stallion, I would be hunting to find a soft muzzle for his ponying. At his young age, hormones, biting may be irresistible with your leg, other horse, tack RIGHT THERE in front of him. Muzzle removes the teeth issue though he may still push on you or rub, which needs correcting. Soft material prevents muzzle becoming a weapon to hit you with. Chaps (thick not decorative) and gloves for you are also recommended. They will protect your leg a little, prevent rope rubs from leading, shank cutting into your leg if he veers off or stops suddenly. You want him beside you with head on a slack shank. Do not give him much slack, just enough to have his head on straight. Eye even with your body, nose not further ahead than ridden horse withers, to prevent them wanting to race. It may take 1000 consistant small corrections but he WILL finally get it, self-carry in keeping shank slack, moving evenly beside rIdden horse. His head and neck on straight makes body move forward evenly, no bad muscles developed. Use your voice commands, walk, trot, Hup, Ho, for speed control, stopping, of EVERY CHANGE you plan to do. He will help if you let him. Stallions “get it” very quickly, do not like being nagged. They will accept punishment if they think it deserved, but get nasty if they feel unjustly punished or if you are inconsistent with directions and corrections.
Your ridden horse needs to obey quickly, take lots of body bumps without kicking. Side pass and back up easily in case you need to crowd the colt over for any number of reasons. Be a steady mover and brave to show colt the weird new stuff is not really scary.
Just a piece of cake, right? Ha ha. Best of luck with your boy. He will be a better horse if you do get him out and about in his future as a stallion or excellent gelding. The details above were learned teaching our horses these skills, preventing accidents in the process.
Thank you Goodhors for such a detailed reply. That is exactly what I wanted to know! I am right there with you on the “every day is a training day” tact. You just end up with better animals if the rules are always the same, and always enforced. And yes, if he doesn’t (or rather DOES)make the cut, he he will be set up to be the most fantastic gelding.
Two questions-
Do you use a chain to teach them to pony? I’ve always been taught not to use a chain for things like lunging where you can’t easily immediately release the pressure. I usually use a rope halter or lunging cavesson for green horses that are pulling on the lunge. However, I am interested in what has worked for other people, so I would welcome your input on this.
The other thing is a muzzle vs a cavesson, like a drop noseband, to keep the nibbles at bay. He’s never offered to nip me, but my old barn owner used to let him chew gloves, shirt sleeves, hats, and all manner of nonsense despite my loud and frequent objections. I am interested in preventing any continuation of this behavior and would like to establish something he can wear while being handled by anyone so that it just isn’t an option as he ages. Any preferred products or designs?
Again, thank you so much for your reply!
from the ponying perspective, I do prefer a chain (leather wrapped and set up as on the track - integrating the noseband), although I start them in a small arena a la ponying at the track, meaning I just loop a leather strap around the halter chin. The advantage to this is if things go sideways. you let loose one end and the youngster is free. While that isn’t great, it beats him dragging a lead rope around. My plan is to introduce them to ponying in a safge confined way and if things go bad, he’s going to get loose and I’m going to get the riding horse out of the pen and go back and deal with the youngster. Once I know he has a good grasp of things, then I graduate to a regular lead rope.
But when I am out of the arena, I do want a little extra security, hence the over the noseband leather wrapped lead (vetwrap works in a pinch)
here’s a couple pics of the youngster I used to pony (got him late in his yearling year, this was about 2 years old, I think)
https://flic.kr/p/6iznPE - lead rope set up
https://flic.kr/p/cyavqo - now this is getting a youngster ready for the real world
https://flic.kr/p/69c5WE - hah! I only noticed what he was doing after I saw the photo! He snuck that rein in his mouth while I wasn’t looking!
Our monstrous yearling (9 months and ticked over 15 hands this past week) is in the same boat still being intact, though we plan on getting him gelded once he has a few fun trailer rides in so his memories of trailers don’t all lead to terrible things (ride one was coming here, don’t want #2 involving body part removal!).
I like the thought of a muzzle over a cavesson or flash noseband as even with a tight noseband they can still get things in there!
Yes you want to be sure he is 100% good leading before ponying. Get him used to taking direction while you are elevated (mounting block, fence, eventually stationary on a horse) before asking him to lead up next to another horse.
There are lungeing cavessons designed with a leather-wrapped chain nose. The line over the nose would keep Mr. Mouthy from eating it and also promotes greater straightness as you don’t have the lead coming up beside the horse’s face into your hand, it just goes over the nose and straight to you. I have used rope halters in the past with success, though am saving up for a better lungeing cavesson i can integrate into my toolbox and pull out for those reasons.
I agree a longer lead is preferred, maybe even 12’ long to give him a little space if he needs it.
I like to use the horse’s name before each verbal cue to transition. This will also help when ponying so your pony horse knows it’s not him/her you’re grumping at! It also serves as a verbal half halt so the horse can prepare and be balanced for your next cue.
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