Driving Cones/Patterns

[DMK]

I think if one has a properly balanced vehicle, cantering in and out of competition is fine. Equally so, unbalanced vehicle plus cantering is a bad idea even if you have paid an entry fee

From a carriage perspective I can see where older vehicles without turntables probably wouldn’t be a great idea for any serious cantering (although I look at any of those in auctions and just have zero interest in driving them, give me modern technology tyvm). As for carts, they are harder to balance, but if it’s done correctly it shouldn’t be an issue. It’s usually not the cantering that finishes off a cart, it’s the too tight turns. It’s easier to go too tight in a trot than a canter!

[FjordBCRF]

@DMK

As far as driving, since you like working equitation, you should look into reinsmanship classes with ADS. That’s basically working equitation with wheels!

I got to look up some patterns and know what Ill be working on this summer! Thanks @DMK

@RMJacobs thank you for the photo, it looks like everyone is having fun!! And too funny about his measurements

[goodhors]

Something to keep in mind, is that not all EZ Entry type carts are the same. The wooden wheeled ones tend to be slightly less tippy because wooden wheels and a one-piece axle weigh more than pneumatic tires. Modern carts may not have a weighty axle down low and there may be some odd/unique some ways wheels are attached to the cart. Width of vehicle makes a big difference to, in turning with added speed in timed events. I have never felt the least bit tippy in our tall Road Cart, but it has low weight with a heavy axle and big wooden wheels. Wide enough to seat two adults and a kid comfortably. Goes over rough ground pretty well. Seat bounces on leaf springs, but not the cart body itself.

I have seen a number of tip-overs with carts having air-filled tires from a variety of makers. If the ground has any bumpy places, it can set you up for tipping on turns. Tire bounces, then over you go! Driver can be large or small, still can’t stop the flip, even center seated.

Just be aware of this issue so you can deal with it. Agree with DMK, older, antique vehicles were not made to use with a cantering horse. They can turn MUCH wider, even with a full 5th wheel. Not enough weight behind in the light antique 4-wheelers without a passenger back there, to hold it down. Rear-end may try to pass the front!! People back then had terrible roads, never thought to drive like we do now in competition. My Grampa thought a cantering driving horse was going to get you killed! Stop him RIGHT NOW! Horses may not have been as well trained then either. Reading old newspapers, there were runaways, carriage accidents all the time!

[FjordBCRF]

Appreciate the comments! This is our get up:

I very much appreciate the risk with driving and how things can go bad fast…and physics! I had the unfortunate experience of having to bail out of a runaway carriage in Dublin Ireland. Thankfully all involved survived though I sported a killer bruise on my knee for quite some time after

I’ll definitely be keeping the canter to straightaways for quite some time and see how any bouncing feels.

[DiamondJubilee]

When I first started to drive over 20 years ago, we were just starting in CDE’s (my husband has been pleasure driving for over 30 years now, I met him 20 years ago and started to learn coming from Hunterland) and he and I were always taught to never canter in harness.

Cantering was always a no no in pleasure driving and we were told to never teach a horse to canter so they just wouldn’t do it in competition. I always thought it would be best to teach them, so they actually knew the difference (we use cluck to trot and kiss to canter) and heaven forbid if they ever do canter, I would want to be prepared for it! No bucking, kicking or running away at a show. That would not be fun! Not that it would be fun at home, but at least it doesn’t put others in danger.

Now that we started to do CDE’s 20 years ago, we did start to teach it of course. Started in our outdoor ring on the straight sides, a few strides, then ask for a trot. Kept increasing it eventually going around a large sloping corner (no tight turns). We did this all in a 4 wheeled marathon carriage and always with someone on the back. We actually never, ever drive alone. We have a meadowbrook, and I would not canter ever in a 2 wheeled cart. We have had 2 accidents at a show with one and I have seen so many others its crazy. Just my opinion of course, as I’m sure there are lots of people who canter in 2 wheeled carts all the time and are just fine. Until they aren’t.

At Walnut Hill my husband had 2 rollovers with a meadowbrook out on course. Once he hit a tree root and tipped over in the forrest (at the trot of course, no cantering allowed at pleasure shows), he tipped it back over and continued on (was eliminated of course) and once turning around some barrels out on course the following year at Walnut Hill again. Both times with a stallion. A photographer was actually right there and she has about 10 shots of this right in a row. From the cart slowly tipping over, to the stallion rearing up and twisting his harness around, to my husband popping out of the cart and hitting his head on the ground (he never once dropped the lines!!! Quite impressive) to him standing and looking at the stallion (who then landed promptly on the ground standing like nothing happened) to him straightening the harness (with a header there now), talking to medics and then getting back in the cart to go back to the barn (you can can see part of the fender missing as it chipped in the roll over). These were not done at speed, and in a very decent show cart. Now this is different than cantering in a straight line (these tip overs were from too sharp of a turn and hitting a root that popped the cart over).

We have even been up on 2 wheels (slightly) in a hazard in some muddy conditions when cantering and it just hit the one side wheels just right (in our marathon 4 wheeled carriage with breaks/delayed steering and all the bells and whistles). I had to shift my weight to the opposite side quick (as we were making a turn the opposite way, so I was prepared to be turning the other way) or we would have flipped right over.

This was the meadowbrook we had that was flipped 2 x (this is actually a picture of the son of the stallion my husband was driving at Walnut Hill. Both were 13h Welsh B’s so not huge). The cart was repainted and the fender was fixed.

[DMK]

How far things have come in CDEs, we were having the “what’s next for the 3* 1HP test” discussion at Tryon. The consensus was flying lead changes may end up in there eventually. Maybe true simple changes next.

That’s about as far from NO cantering as you can get!

As for tipping, the one thing I’ve always been told is that it’s not IF you flip, it’s WHEN you flip in this sport. I guess that’s why our version of break a leg is “keep the rubber side down!” But I have seen a few people go out on marathon with a two-wheel vehicle, but the smart ones are always checking the footing for roots, because that is what will finish you off every time. Meanwhile, I’ve learned where the spot in the Tryon water that will flat out roll a carriage. There is a hole that if you hit while turning will just take you out if you’re at speed. And it’s sneaky, you can barely tell it’s there when walked dry, but the longer the water is in the obstacle, the deeper the ravine gets. I judged that obstacle at katydid last year and we had a couple near misses and a flip in 3*. That absolutely kept me on my toes when I was doing the 2* this year!

[RMJacobs]

I’ve been lucky never to tip at speed in spite of pushing the envelope quite often. It helped that I cantered Salt over ground I knew very well–no surprises. My only wreck was getting hit by my own car, and for sure that one blew me out of the cart. This was at a sedate walk going up the grass next to our steep driveway. In spite of the hard impact and Salt getting the heck out of there, the cart stayed on its wheels, even with one wheel destroyed. Salt was fine–DH found him quietly grazing in the back yard, with the wrecked cart still attached. I never found a mark or a sore spot on Salt, for which I was very grateful. I’m sure that’s because the car hit me squarely and missed him. I checked him all over with a lot of attention along the left shaft especially, and there wasn’t a hair out of place.

My favorite dumb question of all time was DH: “why did you park the car against the tree at the bottom of the dirveway? and why are you lying on the ground cursing?”

My other favorite was my neighbor who saw it happen, and came up my driveway to ask me “are you dead?” I said I didn’t think so, although I wasn’t entirely sure.

So sh!t can happen at any speed.

Rebecca

[RMJacobs]

@goodhors

Reading old newspapers, there were runaways, carriage accidents all the time!

I wonder if the frequent runaways and accidents were more a result of so many more horses in use?

I saw a very scary runaway at a show at the Colorado Horse Park. Everyone was lined up for the judge, and for no apparent reason, one horse panicked and bolted. The driver was ejected at the first curve, and the horse jumped a rock embankment after going through a fence. Amazingly, both driver and horse were fine. The cart, not so much.

My Hackney pony was a bolter, and only got completely out of my control once. He spooked at a neighbor’s mare (whom he saw every time we went out) and ran into an unbuilt lot. The weeds were very tall and I had no idea what was under there. But luckily, we didn’t hit anything and the only damage was two flat tires (goathead thorns were everywhere). That inspired my switch to solid tires.

Rebecca