driving lessons! - technical questions.

[HackneyHorseDriver]

Horse people always have an opinion. Driving is just as opinionated since many of us fight to keep the sport alive for generations to come.

I started out driving draft teams and was taught two handed and egads no whip. Ok Thomas you can get up off the floor now. Thankfully that was over 20 years ago, the boys were well trained, and I was alot younger. The last 15 years have been heavy into driving and I must say I drive two handed depending on the vehicle and or horses needs. I also drive coachman style and truely enjoy it. In fact with some guidance from Holly Thompson I was able to get my little gelding balanced, bending, doing circles, and figures of eight with coachman style. I was not brave enough to try the Tandem in figures just yet. The better position of being in a gig is most helpful for proper coachman style. I find it harder in roadcarts and meadowbrooks.

I have often commented to my trainer that I personally don’t care for the training vehicle we use as it hinders ones practice of proper driving. Since we work some days six singles they all seem to get put to it, as it’s easier then dragging out the carriages. I’ve also caught myself doing a bridge like riding on very long drives to support my upper body position.

I agree with GH the europeans have mastered driving coachman style and it is impressive and something to shoot for. Nothing is really right or wrong as long as it is safe and you are having a good time while learning something new.

Good luck.

[kearleydk]

I agree

I agree with Thomas, who bless his heart has remained calm through this thread, that I would have been better served had I been forced to use Achenbach at the outset. However us yanks are noted for being in a hurry and you can get started faster with two handed style.

In my own case the need for Achenbach became totally clear when I started fooling around with Tandem and other multiple hitches that had more than two reins. I now have sort of settled into some sloppy sort of Achenbach and often find myself using it even when driving single as it is actually much more relaxing for my arms and shoulders on longer drives.

All just my two cents worth, but I think you are getting some consensis here that it might be nice to start with Achenbach if you can. It’s easier to “downgrade” to 2 handed than it is to “upgrade” to Achenbach after you develop some habits.

Dick

[Thomas_1]

I’d advise always to start with Coachman.

Then if you really must to learn Achenbach.

I’ve often had extensive periods driving all day, every day and I’ve never found it a strain at all to drive coachman.

I never carry weight on my hand though! I only ever have the lightest of contact.

Only thing I find now I’ve got old is that when I’ve driven a long time (over 4 hours!) that I sometimes get cramp in my left thumb and that can be awkward when it suddenly goes and I totally drop the reins! Have to quickly catch them with my right hand whilst cursing the pain of cramp!

The cause of that isn’t driving though, its something to do with some medical treatment I had. I have to keep remembering to drink litres of tonic water to prevent it.

[slc2]

yes, i got some more information today and now understand the difference between hungarian and coachman. i misheard some of what she had told me last week (of course, welcome to the world of the partially deaf).

however, i am going to learn FIRST what THIS instructor has to teach. since she is very safe, thorough and takes excellent care of the horses, regardless of whether she’s teaching the best style or not i will be working with her.

they teach hungarian first because it’s the easiest, they say, and the simplest one to start with. i don’t want to confuse myself by trying to learn several styles simultaneously, i think it’s better to learn one, then the next, etc.

and TODAY…I GOT TO DRIVE THE GIG!!!

It was so exciting! I went up and down hills, turned, and we had a nice route around the farm. Next time I get to go out further! And of course the horse was a fabulously well broke section b welsh about 14 hands, who was perfectly trained and very nice. i had an absolute riot! it was so much fun!

[gothedistance]

Glad you enjoyed your drive, slc2. Aren’t those Section B’s just the sweetest ponies to drive?

I enjoyed my drive this evening – a wonderful 5 mile tootle around the countryside that ended – in the last 1/2 mile – of me frantically outracing a suddenly blown-up major thunder and lightening storm with my darling Section B mare, who only ever goes at a gentle floating trot, taking my antique 1880 Kendell pony carriage at a flat out hand gallop up the road, me calling out to her to put petal to the metal as I kept looking over my shoulder with increasing alarm to the opaque sheet of pounding rain now obscuring the mountains only 3 miles away. The wind was howling, and I knew the storm was approaching at a tremendous speed. Only 1/10 of the mile from home I could see the curtain of downpour just about at our heels, and I actually did what I never do – I drove that pony straight into the stable just as the storm reached us with lightening cracking all around, including one bolt that hit the field right behind the stable.

And to make this topic related – I did it all one handed …with the whip hand only assisting, of course, when we made the flying 90 degree turn into our neighbors hayfield to beeline it straight onto our property and into the stable. I’ve never driven two-fisted – I learned driving a million years ago when it was considered “proper driving” to drive with only one hand. Putting reins in both hands just feels clunky to me. Also I use pony reins – they are much thinner and better fitted for petite hands like mine. Makes it much easier to hold the reins in one hand.

BTW - How is your pony doing? Is he also getting some driving training under his belt while you are also learning to drive?

[slc2]

WOW! I wish I’d been with you, LOL!

i’m taking it very slow with my pony, we want to give him plenty of time. he’s been doing very well and is much less skittish. i’ll be hauling him to the trainer once a week when he’s ready to be hitched.

[Thomas_1]

[QUOTE=gothedistance;3327267]
Glad you enjoyed your drive, slc2. Aren’t those Section B’s just the sweetest ponies to drive? [/QUOTE] You wouldn’t say that if you’d got the one I’m retraining right now!

And to make this topic related – I did it all one handed …with the whip hand only assisting, of course,
I’ve not driven any other than that way in over 50 years! :winkgrin:

@SLC2

yes, i got some more information today and now understand the difference between hungarian and coachman. i misheard some of what she had told me last week (of course, welcome to the world of the partially deaf).

Can you please explain to me what the difference is?

Perhaps you could also describe the technique you’re learning and then we can appreciate what it actually is.

Personally speaking and as I said earlier, I fail to begin to comprehend how or why a driving instructor would start a beginner with anything other than correct technique.

To do otherwise IMO is the equivalent of going to a “riding instructor” that plonks you on and says “kick” and “pull” and because its quicker and easier taking customers for a ride than teaching someone to ride.

[slc2]

i suppose the only person who does anything correctly is you? :lol:

sorry, but this is the person i’m taking lessons from, whether you approve or not, and you really have no business trying to pick and pick at every single thing i ever write, and additionally, trying to do eveyrthing you possibly can to run me down personally every single chance you get, NOR to try and ruin what is an exciting and good experience. frankly i’m surprised anyone you choose to target and pick at ever wants to drive again. the natural conclusion is if this is what driving people are like, i want no part of it. i’ve been lucky to see that driving people are by and large, welcoming and tolerant of beginners and their questions and confusions.

she is not a clod, she is not incompetent and she is not teaching me incorrectly, the person she learned under is in charge of a huge program here and is a highly respected breeder as well. i’ve talked to some much more advanced people who drive cdi’s and they completely approve of her methods and highly recommend her for getting a good safe start. you won’t be successful trying to ruin this for me - so sod off.

[Thomas_1]

Clearly I touched a raw nerve there.

If the cap fits, then wear it, but you’ve read a heck of a lot more than what I ever said!

I merely asked you a question and specifically to clarify and describe the rein techniques you’re being taught.

You came asking what you described as a technical question and which I was more than prepared to help with. However you came using incorrect terminology and a brief description which meant that I (and others) hadn’t got a clue what you actually meant.

All the rest is a total figment of your fertile imagination.

Responding to postings is what happens on bulletin boards! Its not all about you!

It might astonish you to appreciate that others actually are permitted to post on bulletin boards even when you’re there. It might also astonish you to know that experienced drivers and driving instructors actually might know the technicalities of rein handling and as such they would be able to answer the question.

I understand entirely that you’re a legend in your own mind when it comes to dressage but so far you’ve not even reached that pinnacle in driving.

[QUOTE=slc2;3333095]
i suppose the only person who does anything correctly is you? :lol:[/QUOTE] Well no its not :lol:

I could recommend a lot of excellent driving instructors if that’s what you wanted. It may even include the one you’re going to (if I knew who it was)!

But hey you don’t do you. I forgot you actually don’t want to learn. You’re the one that comes here from time to time to ask a question and then tell those who respond that its not the answer you want. Indeed evidence is you don’t actually want an answer at all. You’re merely seeking to “impress” with and recount your (lack of) experience.

I also had a brief moment where I thought that for once you might actually answer a question about what you’ve actually been doing…

No change there either!

frankly i’m surprised anyone you choose to target and pick at ever wants to drive again. the natural conclusion is if this is what driving people are like, i want no part of it. i’ve been lucky to see that driving people are by and large, welcoming and tolerant of beginners and their questions and confusions.

Disabuse yourself of such silly notion! Might I suggest that anyone who would feel so affected by someone who has no physical ability to affect in any way probably needs to have a discussion with a health care professional

she is not a clod, she is not incompetent and she is not teaching me incorrectly,
Your words, not mine. I’ve not the faintest idea what or how you’re being taught until you can actually begin to explain it! So what you’re suggesting isn’t even in my mind.

i’ve talked to some much more advanced people who drive cdi’s
What’s a CDI?

you won’t be successful trying to ruin this for me - so sod off.
Manners!

[hitchinmygetalong]

@Thomas_1;3337006

What’s a CDI?

Oh, Thomas, thank you for asking that! I’m a greenie and thought I just hadn’t learned all the terminology yet. Maybe it is something exclusive to the US?

Can someone answer this for me?

Thanks!

[Thomas_1]

[QUOTE=hitchinmygetalong;3337050]
Oh, Thomas, thank you for asking that! I’m a greenie and thought I just hadn’t learned all the terminology yet. Maybe it is something exclusive to the US?

Can someone answer this for me?

Thanks![/QUOTE] I’d presumed that too.

Same as hungarian and asbach. Though it turned out I was wrong on the latter and await explanation on the former

I guess it could be cdE which is also exclusive to the US: though I always know that one (obviously) … But hey I genuinely don’t know.
I know you have something there there at local shows and called combination classes where a horse is also ridden and driven. Maybe its that??

No doubt we’ll both find out from someone.

[slc2]

No, thomas, it doesn;'t justify your rotten manners by saying ‘clearly i touched a nerve’ and all that silly rot. that’s grade school nonsense - a person responds when you pick endlessly at every single thing they say, so you say, ‘see i upset you’.

and what does that prove, exactly, except that you’re a rude person? does upsetting others give you some sort of rush?

in fact you don’t upset me - i get upset when i think people are capable of behaving better.

in any case, all you’re really doing is driving away customers for your driving school. your posts aren’t exactly good advertisements - at all.

as i told you, i can’t hear well and i’m bound to get some terms wrong. and if all you do is pick at beginners and try to make them feel small because they are beginners, or run down their instructors and their methods, you don’t have any business running a driving school - because all you’re doing is driving people away from driving.

"Hi
I don’t post on the driving forum because of Thomas…And every time someone tries to put him in his place he replies a long and winded post trying to justify himself. He’s very annoying. And definitely takes up too much room…
"

[hitchinmygetalong]

slc2, could you please explain what a CDI is?

Thank you.

[gothedistance]

I’m sure she meant CDE, hitch. She’s new to driving. Lots of newbies make mistakes in terminology that has yet to become familiar. And no one seems to want to hang those poor beginners.

In all seriousness, please don’t drag this forum down into what amounts to a nasty contest. It is like listening to a loud, obnoxious argument that started in another room and has nothing to do with the people here. It just makes it uncomfortable for those of us who sincerely enjoy the peaceful, friendly environment that the driving forum has to offer.

[hitchinmygetalong]

Thank you for the clarification, gothedistance.

[Pony_Fixer]

Seriously slick, posting–in bold–a negative post about Thomas is a little risky. Maybe we could pull out a few posts referring to you (I’m sure a few exist ;)) in a negative light.

Also, I think if you didn’t show up on every forum acting like you already knew it all you wouldn’t have those who are knowledgeable and fed up with it jumping on you.

Carry on…

I for one, had no idea that drivers mainly drove one handed! Learn something new every day. And I should know this, one of my friends is a nationally ranked driver! Shows how closely I pay attention! I can barely manage to get around a dressage ring with 2 hands and 2 legs some days, so now watching drivers going through the hazards has become even MORE impressive!

[hitchinmygetalong]

Also, it is very poor manners to share a PM on any bulletin board. It cannot be verified as to the source, and quite frankly, it could simply be the poster typing something she is afraid to have credited to herself. I, for one, completely discount anything shared that way.

I hope your next lesson goes just as well slc. Truly. I love driving and for once in my horse-related life, I feel I may have found my place. I never felt completely comfortable on top of a horse, and after a couple of falls it was clear that riding was not my niche. But how I love trotting along behind a good horse. I have so much to learn yet!

Edited to add:
I believe you are in NE Ohio? You might want to make the drive to the Rochester NY area for this fabulous show. I have yet to make it to a Walnut Hill Farm show but I have heard nothing but raves about them.

[UnderTheSonWelshCobs]

Wow… “downgraded” to two handed driving huh? Hmmm that’s some serious snobbishness I must say.

I’ve been driving probably 13 yrs now and I still prefer to drive two handed. I have better contact and better finesse with TWO hands. I can amazingly use my whip without interfering with the rein just like I always could while riding dressage. I must be uber talented or something.

Anyhow… as I explained to someone yesterday who is just starting out. You find your own feel with the horse. It can take some experimentation but you eventually work out the details. No one is born with great contact. It comes from LOTS of time in the seat (or on the horse’s back if you’re a rider).

I think to describe one as “better” than the other is just a new form of elitest thinking. Do what works best for you and your horse. Don’t force something that is incredibly uncomfortable or doesn’t feel natural to you. Sure learn it … try it… but use what feels best.

[goeslikestink]

its not wether people are picking on others they arnt

look slick when you driving its a whole new ball game the horse is eight feet away from you ok
and you now have a vechile instead of a saddle
and all they want is for beginners to be playing safe when they drive

ps-- be careful slick when the tennis ball gets hit into the net it gets caught out here see you

[slc2]

no, stink, it’s been going on long enough, i get continuous pm’s about thomas 1 - ‘i don’t post on the driving forum because he is so nasty’, it’s more than one person who feels that way, its constant and that pm is just an example. when people say ‘i don’t post’ that’s when it’s gone far enough, and yes, i DO think Pm’s are a cowardly way of handling it and letting one person get picked on and bitching in pm instead of saying hey, thomas 1, enough, IS cowardly. but if one or two are disgruntled or just don’t like to hear ‘i disagree’ or a discussion, it’s different . disagreement can be great, but not thomas 1 stalking one person and singling them out for ‘;special treatment’.