driving lessons! - technical questions.

finally i’ve gotten some time and started driving lessons, and boy is it fun! i am so excited!

the instructor described two main techniques - hungarian, asbach, with asbach more for long periods of straight ahead driving, and hungarian for lots of turning, etc…

are techniques for shortening the reins, turning, etc, fairly uniform among pleasure/cdi drivers in the USA? is there a fairly uniform agreement about when to use hungarian, when use asbach? or do you find there is a lot of variation to what techniques people follow.

(i would expect fine harness driving or farm driving to be very different, i’m just asking about pleasure and cdi driving).

The ADS rule book says either one handed or two handed is fine. If you look around at the shows, most folks drive with 2 hands. Judges will occasionally ask for a 1 handed circle in reinsmanship classes and there is at least one dressage test above Prelim that asked for 1 handed movements but that is it. Many folks switch back and forth. Some never learn to drive with one hand ever and do ok. (That will horrify Thomas who can give you a much more educated view but this is what I see in the SE USA)

The Achenbach style is not one-handed, you anchor the reins with the left hand leaving the right hand to give the aids…theoretically, leaving the use of the whip freer with less impact on the rein aids. Very European (and euro-weenie wanna’ be).

Using reins the way 100% of english riders use them is denigrated as “plow reining” as if it’s just good enough for a hick farmer plowing with his mule.

It’s a lot like the comparison of how to eat with a fork. The Euro’s keep the knife in one hand, and stuff the food in with the fork in the other hand. More efficient you know. You’ll see euro-weenie wanna be’s imitating this style. It’s so much more euro.

Take a look at photos of obstacle/x-country…you won’t see Achenbach rein handling…Direct reining is faster and more sensitive (and much more natural a feel). I was looking at a video I shot in 1986 at a competition for the driving teams to go to Europe…there wasn’t an Achenbach to be seen…and these were the best of US drivers. It really is an affectation.

Handle the reins the way you wish, don’t worry what a euro-weenie wanna be says or sniffs their nose at you as somehow so provincial…you’ll beat em’ anyway.

Trak, we need a “heart” icon on this forum! :lol: :yes:

I don’t think it’s by ANY means a bad idea to learn to do both, particularly if you have aspirations toward driving multiples/coaching. But most people with singles over here drive with 2 hands.

Remember that the ADS rules specifically acknowledge and provide for national variants in driving and harnessing style. :wink:

I am working on my Achenbach as I have found that holding the reins in one hand creates a more balanced and straighter horse. For the most part I just strum the reins with my right for small to medium corrections. I take the bridge for the bigger corrections and when doing dressage. I do drive 2 handed in the marathon. Learning both is the best option I think.:slight_smile:

I learned “farm style” first, and was “forced” via much mocking to switch to Achenbach when driving in the UK for a week. I actually found I preferred it (for pleasure/road driving at least) once I got the hang of it. It was comfortable, subtle, and very accurate. Then I came home and everyone called me a Euro-weenie, so I had to switch back to two hands. :slight_smile:

yes

What Richard said.

Of course, no knowledge is wasted…but just because something has a euro name doesn’t make it better or our way worse. Too many people raise their noses at those provincial hick drivers…not unlike dressage queens looking down their noses at western and jumper riders…gets old.

I can do Achenbach…I prefer “plow reining” for simplicity and clarity.

Photos of Achenbach

I just loaded some photo’s of handling reins useing Achenbach. If that would interest you? IMHO, I would advise any driver to study Achenbach.
Look under lessons and then the link for Achenbach.
Hope it helps , Robert

[QUOTE=slc2;3316624]

the instructor described two main techniques - hungarian, asbach, with asbach more for long periods of straight ahead driving, and hungarian for lots of turning, etc… [/QUOTE] Interesting… I’ve never heard of either.

Arguably there’s actually 2 correct rein handling techniques:

  • Coachman
  • Achenbach
Both require the reins to be held in the left hand and with the right hand used as an assister hand.

In the latter style the right hand is used much more and for virtually all steering. The left hand supports the reins.

In coachman, all steering is done with the left hand alone with the exception of taking loops. The prime purpose of the right hand is for waving at folks taking your photo :wink: The right hand comes in for shortening, loops and as an assister in emergency.

Then there’s the one I’d be happy to argue about and that’s 2 handed rein handling.

Driving with arms out and a rein in either hand as you would riding leads to the following problems:

Leaning on the horse’s mouth or dropping contact altogether - and partly because the horse is some distance distance away and according to the gradient, there is a lot of lengthening and shortening to do.

The right hand holds the whip and its unhorsemanlike to apply the whip with a hand that still has hold of the rein! It means you’re giving the horse all sorts of contradictory signals.

So for those that want a critique, would you like to explain or for those who are very brave show photos of, how you hold the reins - and describe or show how you turn left, turn right and you use your whip?

are techniques for shortening the reins, turning, etc, fairly uniform among pleasure/cdi drivers in the USA?
No. Driving is no different to riding. Some drivers are well trained and competent and use good technique and some use adaptive means to achieve what they want to do.

is there a fairly uniform agreement about when to use Hungarian, when use asbach? or do you find there is a lot of variation to what techniques people follow.
No. Driving is no different to riding. One question, 100 opinions!

IMO and experience, the best drivers learn to drive using correct rein handling first.

Please remember that neither Coachman nor Achenbach precludes the use of the right assister hand and its there when you need it.

Some claim that two handed rein handling is faster. I’ve had a bet on for 20 years that I can beat any purist two handed driver round a cones course driving coachman style and so far I’m quids in!

Truth is though that because its so hard to find a trainer to start someone off with Coachman or Achenbach that the skill and technique often is never actually fully and properly developed. Those relatively newer to driving need to appreciate that when HDT (CDE) was first developed as a sport that the marathon phase was most often always driven coachman or achenbach style. There’s no difference in times now and courses if anything have got easier because of the concern for safety. The dressage phase absolutely had to be and throughout. Now there’s just an element whereby you have to drive a single-handed circle. So for anyone serious about driving competitively they will have to move to advanced tests where they’ve to execute a perfect circle and deviations with reins held in one hand.

All too often nowadays, drivers make their rein adjustment before they commence their move and then clamp two reins in one hand and sort of hope things stay on track and because they actually can’t handle the reins in a single hand. This means that the horse often falls in and turns its head away and the circle is pretty terrible IMO.

Appreciate that the reason the rules were changed was not because 2 handed technique was quicker or better in any way at all. It was purely because the sport wanted to attract more to it. Trust me the best and I mean THE best drivers, all can handle single-handed. Its how they started and drove for years before they competed and its how they train and practice dressage etc at home.

Increasingly over the past 10 years I’ve been re-training drivers (not just UK) who are already competing. Quite simply they’re coming to learn coachman rein handling and because they’re experiencing practical difficulties in every day driving and also poor competition performance scores when going up the levels.

Truth is though that if you don’t learn correct technique in the first place, that its limiting and there’s a heck of a lot you’ll never be able to do.

No different to riding.

All this nonsense about Euro weanie (wtf is a weanie?) wannabe’s needs to be carefully considered if its not a joke. Appreciate that at international competition level that the Europeans are doing disproportionately well in terms of their populace number even discounting that, they’re the ones that are consistently winning. Maybe its just the cry of disdain from wannabe winners? :wink:

Again, all no different to riding. :wink:

Very interesting post, Thomas. Thank you.

As a novice driver, I am very interested in learning the most efficient rein handling technique, and also want to use whatever technique is considered kindest to the horse.

I will discuss this at length with my instructor in my next lesson.

If you don’t mind another question, and this is a silly one, do people with small hands start out with a bit of a disadvantage? I think that is a mental roadblock for me. I find myself thinking, “I can’t do that! My hands are too small!”

If you don’t mind another question, and this is a silly one, do people with small hands start out with a bit of a disadvantage? I think that is a mental roadblock for me. I find myself thinking, “I can’t do that! My hands are too small!”

Absolutely not. Don’t forget that with a single you can hold the reins separated between 2nd or 3rd finger if you really thought that and whilst you’re learning. However I teach all sizes and ages and even small children and they all hold reins correctly in left hand and with the exception of one guy who’s had his middle finger amputated, so he goes to 3rd finger separation.

Some of the best drivers I personally have known are petite ladies.

You may have heard of:

Claudia Bunn, Clare Wigmore, Christine Dick, Elizabeth Ashbridge, Anne Norris, Jane MacInnes, Caroline Dale-Leach etc etc etc

All petite and all more proficient than most dream of and all driving up to teams. Trust me, that’s a lot of rein handling.

When I was learning the basics (ably assisted by my well-trained and experienced Haflinger mare, dam of my current horse) I had books, videos, and a lesson etc. I was following and I tried valiantly to learn the one handed method. The mare was just so pi$$ed at me, the only way we finally connected was with two-handed driving and a pretty firm contact.

I’m sure a lot of it was my ineptitude at Achenbach but really the horse let me know what her preference was! Do you think that would be a problem here in the US, horses that haven’t been trained to that feel?

Probably a beginner question, but that’s never stopped me yet.

^ Probably best to first learn with a reining machine or under good supervision rather than self taught and with a horse on the other end.

With the length of reins you have for carriage driving, that’s a heck of a lot of jiggling about in the mouth and pain for the horse when a learner is just giving it a go and getting it wrong.

A sensible horse would have the right to express an opinion in that case.

It always amazes me that in driving, probably more than in riding, folks say what in effect can be paraphrased as:

“well I once tried to do it right and to learn but couldn’t do it, so I’m just doing it my way because its easier.”

Doing something well isn’t ordinarily easy.

Learning a practical skill takes training, technique and practice, practice and then more practice and then some more.

You asked - Do people with small hands have a disadvantage

I’ll answer no - AS LONG AS you get reins that are comfortable for your hand

When we started, just about all you could get from the Amish was a thick leather 1 inch rein
Now you can get reins sized to your preference and the leather is much nicer too. There also is the beta (though I have not tried this myself) and various versions of web - with and without grip-strips

If you find you anre not working well with the reins you have - see if you can borrow something different to tryout for a better fit

I’ve found I like a 3/4 inch leather (about as thick as a huter riding rein) to fit my size 7 glove hand

^ Excellent po![](nt and something that hadn’t occurred to me and it should have.

I use very light and very well oiled supple reins.

I’ve had guys comment on my reins and once even got told they were like lady’s reins! I had the last laugh though as I whooped his ass!

Me helping my grandson with the intricacies of rein handling. He’s not doing very well at all, but then he is only 4!

[IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v258/flodden_edge/Driving/DSCF0077.jpg)

If you get a chance to try various thicknesses & sizes of reins, do it. My show reins are 3/4" wide, but they are very thick, and TBH my Walsh reins, which are an inch wide but a great deal thinner, are way more comfortable for me.

i am hard of hearing, thomas 1, damaged eardrum many years ago, so what i hear is often distorted. what the instructor said sounded like asbach to me because of that. i understand now that the correct word is ‘achenbach’.

however, what is described here as ‘coachman’ is what she calls ‘hungarian’. i don’ care what she calls it, really, or if it’s called one thing in england and soemething else here, as long as she teaches it properly.

we work on a reining machine during lessons and i have made one for practice at home.

and monday i get to drive the carriage! after successful ground driving and practice on the reining machine!

i find it much easier to practice on the machine with my eyes closed, she says quite a few students find that easier.

Hungarian is actually a third style. Coachman is not Hungarian.

I would agree with Thomas in that Driver should learn the Achenbach or Coachman style, a one-handed method first. Being able to manage WELL, then one-handed style is also is a huge aid in whip handling. Allowing you to free up the one hand, get whip touching horse where needed, without messing up his rein signals. A truly a vital skill to any Driver.

Once you gain skill in the one-handed method of choice, Achenbach or Coachman, you can check out other styles. The Hungarian would be one. What we see on Marathon is Driver, especially the Multiples, often mixing styles. Being out on a CDL course for long times, needing to keep close control of horse or horses, your hands get rather tired. Like changing from trot to canter, using other muscles. A new hand position allows the mucles to rest, while other muscles do the work in new grip.

But if you don’t have the good basics, like Achenbach or Coachman, you won’t do as well with changing to the other styles.

This may just be more common with folks who drive longer distances, fatigue setting in. Recreational drivers can be out for a couple hours or more, need to have a hand change now and again to rest. Many folks have hand problems, not as much strength for finger grip on reins, so being able to vary the rein hold is helpful to them.

Perhaps you don’t care for the folks talking about their “special (insert name) rein style” but you have folks dropping names in any activity. Makes them feel like they are knowledgable. I again agree with Thomas, the Europeans sure do have great skill in driving. Their methods have kept them on top at all combinations of horses, so they are successful methods. I try to look at new or different ideas, named or not, with an open mind. Learn them to see if they can benefit me, improve what I already know or am doing.

Euro-weenies would be copycats, trying to be among the “In” group by dropping names. Everything European just MUST be better, because it comes from far away!! That thinking pervades our culture, trainers, saddles, horses that are imported MUST be superior. My question is how WELL do they succed with that rein handling method? Are they good at using it? Does it give them any advantages? Look and learn, the good or the poor in choosing what to use.

But the Driver MUST have good basics, which I believe starts with being able to drive one-handed with a bit of skill. One-handed takes time, work, as does any learned skill. The reinboard can be an immense help in developing the driver. Make your own reinboard, cheap and easy to do. I started 2-handed years ago, had to relearn later. Knowing how to do one-handed, gives me more options to work with my horse, communicating.

[QUOTE=slc2;3320017]
i am hard of hearing, thomas 1, damaged eardrum many years ago, so what i hear is often distorted[/QUOTE] Perhaps you could describe what she said was “Hungarian” technique and what she said was “Achenbach”?

Note though that Coachman is Coachman - its not Hungarian.