Driving TWH?

[MySparrow]

I’m about to inherit, sadly, two Tennessee Walking Horses from a friend who is dying far too young from cancer. One is elderly and will just be retired, but the other is a big, stout nine-year-old. He’s going to need a lot of work – she acquired him just before she became ill, and he has basically been in a pasture with the mare for the last four years.

The gelding will be a riding horse, but I’m also going to try him between the shafts. Has anyone here driven walkers? Any clues or suggestions or advice?

Thanks!

[goodhors]

The gaited horses to a light vehicle, light load, seem to do fine. They can have some driven classes at TWH shows, put to the very light, show vehicles. If you start attaching them to loads they have to actually PULL, they often lose the gaiting. Just get used to doing things differently, using different muscles moving the load, so it is easier to trot or pace than gait.

We have seen this happen on a number of TWHs, even older animals with established skills in racking or stepping pace and running walk. Once they started pulling and working at it (surrey with 4 passengers, wagon with kids in the back) they changed to trotting or pacing. Body carriage needed for each job is quite different.

Folks who hitched and drove now and again, light road cart, on country roads, two people riding, seemed to not have a problem with gait loss. No pulling needed for that kind of load. Body carriage in cart shafts was same as when ridden. Remember they are not collected as other ridden horses are, though they do work off your hands when gaiting.

Even changing shoes, tweaking stuff really was not much help with the TWH trotter or pacer, if he didn’t want to gait on his own anymore. Gait is just…gone. The animals were good ones under saddle before the driving, had big motion, really traveled in gait, gaits well established in his brain and muscles.

TWH’s are usually quite sensible, accepting, so not hard to train for driving. For me, if I wanted horse for the gaits, big moving running walk on my long trail rides, I probably would not drive him.

[Tamara_in_TN]

[QUOTE=goodhors;4649298]
The animals were good ones under saddle before the driving, had big motion, really traveled in gait, gaits well established in his brain and muscles.

before about 1960 TWHs were driven quite frequently out of necessity…my friend (who was Merry Go Boys(http://www.walkerswest.com/Champs/MerryGoBoy.htm) groom when he beat Midnight Sun the first time <1947 ?>) had a nice black team of Ace’s Sensation(http://www.walkerswest.com/Champs/SLFAcesSensation.htm) daughters he put to a bigger 4 wheeled carriage in the 1970s

Tamara in TN

[Rudy]

Quite a few walkers are started in cart before being trained to ride and it will help the their hindend when gaiting. They learn to drive deeper from behind.

[goodhors]

Thanks for those very interesting links Tamara!

The short video was really cool, horse is long toed, but not special shod, weighted like present day horses are, doing an incredible Running Walk display. Very interesting to find the high quantity of Standardbred in the lineage too. Midnight Sun was one neato horse! Merry Go Boy was equally interesting, certainly sounds like a special kind of horse to have. I can see why both are so well respected, certainly are my image of the breed standards.

[Tamara_in_TN]

[QUOTE=goodhors;4650046]
Thanks for those very interesting links Tamara!
Merry Go Boy was equally interesting, certainly sounds like a special kind of horse to have. I can see why both are so well respected, certainly are my image of the breed standards.[/QUOTE]

he was a grand animal even only 14 some hands and my friend said that Go Boys mother was THE most beautiful mare he had seen then or since and he lived to be 89;)

in fact, his grand father was a big man in the heyday of the saddle horse (1890-1920’s) and gave to my friend a Red Squirrel mare as a childhood BD present…so this was a sure enough horseman descended from horsemen

I held in my hands the shoes Go Boy wore that night…they looked like a draft pony’s work shoe with just a small turnback…

Tamara in TN

[Cartfall]

I owned a grandson of Midnight Sun. His last offspring was my gelding’s daddy.

That siad, I drive with a gentleman who drives TWH. Although my arabs travel different speeds, he moves on out with us. When Burr (the TWH) gets a good running walk on, Zanzer will be cantering.

Although Jim does not compete in CTDs, he drives with us at training speeds and usually does about 15 miles.

So yes Dale, they can be taught to drive and can do it well.

[pricestory]

Aguy came to our pleasure show a few years ago with a walker who trotted in harness.

[Tamara_in_TN]

[QUOTE=pricestory;4650661]
Aguy came to our pleasure show a few years ago with a walker who trotted in harness.[/QUOTE]

well they are not supposed to gait in harness…trotting is a good cross training for the walkers…but shhhhh don’t tell the Faithful;)

Tamara in TN

[MySparrow]

[QUOTE=Tamara in TN;4650963]
well they are not supposed to gait in harness…trotting is a good cross training for the walkers…but shhhhh don’t tell the Faithful;)

Tamara in TN[/QUOTE]

I have a lot to learn!

[Rudy]

I wouldn’t own a trotting walker and certainly wouldn’t allow it in harness. But shhhh.

[Tamara_in_TN]

[QUOTE=Rudy;4651181]
I wouldn’t own a trotting walker and certainly wouldn’t allow it in harness. But shhhh.[/QUOTE]

it is a lovely way to square a pacy horse up and keep a natural walker right there in the "neutral "between trot and pace…

but like I said the Faithful won’t hear it…it is no different than cantering the thing around barrels… which as I recall you have some experiance with ???

the hard core folks think the Versatility Program is also something that they would never “allow” a good horse to compete in it ruins the gaits after all

Tamara in TN

[Rudy]

I don’t mind the versatility program and wholeheartedly support it though I do think some people have gone too far (such as a certain unique colored dressage stallion who can’t gait for crap any more). And yes, I have done barrels with mine as well as jumping and now we have moved to ground driving up and down the roads in prep for if I ever decide we will try driving (which I think he’d enjoy.) Any of the things I do with him is either in gait or cantering/pseudo cantering.

However doing anything in the pace or trot spectrum works muscles in ways I personally don’t want worked so my horse is kept in the walking/racking area. I’ve seen and ridden walkers allowed to do either a trot or pace as well as their gait and they have all had a gait I wouldn’t pay for…too short, too stiff, too square, too rough etc etc. Things that can be improved with proper gaiting but nothing I want to deal with at this point.

It’s has nothing to do with bias in that a gaited horse should only gait; it has everything to do with my experience with the breed and dealing with it first hand. A person can do what they want really, so I’m not going to crucify someone for trotting/pacing a walker regularly…I just won’t do it or support it.

[Tamara_in_TN]

[QUOTE=Rudy;4651396]
A person can do what they want really, so I’m not going to crucify someone for trotting/pacing a walker regularly…I just won’t do it or support it. :)[/QUOTE]

well you did say you would not own one w/o too much followup…that’s pretty harsh

I am considering the aerobics involved in harness work and it’s is a lot less damaging to their hind ends that trying to canter around…

trotting in harness does not normally carry over under saddle as the speeds are different as is the work load/fulcrum points…

you can’t tell me that a horse holds a true running walk in harness under a load…it is not possible to nod and haul at the same time so at best you have what a stepping pace or a rack…neither of which a walker should do

but we will agree on a certain odd colored dreeesaggy horse;)

Tamara in TN

[Gnalli]

[QUOTE=goodhors;4649298]
The gaited horses to a light vehicle, light load, seem to do fine. They can have some driven classes at TWH shows, put to the very light, show vehicles. If you start attaching them to loads they have to actually PULL, they often lose the gaiting. Just get used to doing things differently, using different muscles moving the load, so it is easier to trot or pace than gait.

We have seen this happen on a number of TWHs, even older animals with established skills in racking or stepping pace and running walk. Once they started pulling and working at it (surrey with 4 passengers, wagon with kids in the back) they changed to trotting or pacing. Body carriage needed for each job is quite different.

Folks who hitched and drove now and again, light road cart, on country roads, two people riding, seemed to not have a problem with gait loss. No pulling needed for that kind of load. Body carriage in cart shafts was same as when ridden. Remember they are not collected as other ridden horses are, though they do work off your hands when gaiting.

Even changing shoes, tweaking stuff really was not much help with the TWH trotter or pacer, if he didn’t want to gait on his own anymore. Gait is just…gone. The animals were good ones under saddle before the driving, had big motion, really traveled in gait, gaits well established in his brain and muscles.

TWH’s are usually quite sensible, accepting, so not hard to train for driving. For me, if I wanted horse for the gaits, big moving running walk on my long trail rides, I probably would not drive him.[/QUOTE]

My daddy taught his show horses to pull a PLOW before they were show horses…It builds muscle.

[retento]

I compete in Versatility, including driving, with my TWH’s. All mine are taught to pull the “sled” and I use it probably 3-4 times a month. It is almost dead weight and is a lot of work for them. It builds stamina, helps with timing, helps them use their backends and as a side benefit, seems to add just a bit of lift to the front. To get the best results, as with anything, you can’t just be a passenger, you actively have to work to keep them in gear. After a few times, they get the idea and learn to keep in gait while pulling that heavy load. It is quite a thrill to see one put everything he’s got into into pulling and maintain a true headshaking walk. You usually will find on one that is truly walking while pulling, his overstride won’t seem as good as when you are riding. But the next time you ride him, his backend will be improved. Word of caution, don’t over do it, build them up gradually to pulling a load.

When they are pulling a pleasure cart, again it takes some active driving to keep the best gait. I spend a bit of time doing “long, loose dog walking” and maintaining good lateral flexion, just as I do when riding. If they come out of gear, fix it immediately, don’t let it become habit.
Enjoy!

[Rudy]

[QUOTE=retento;4651822]
I compete in Versatility, including driving, with my TWH’s. All mine are taught to pull the “sled” and I use it probably 3-4 times a month. It is almost dead weight and is a lot of work for them. It builds stamina, helps with timing, helps them use their backends and as a side benefit, seems to add just a bit of lift to the front. To get the best results, as with anything, you can’t just be a passenger, you actively have to work to keep them in gear. After a few times, they get the idea and learn to keep in gait while pulling that heavy load. It is quite a thrill to see one put everything he’s got into into pulling and maintain a true headshaking walk. You usually will find on one that is truly walking while pulling, his overstride won’t seem as good as when you are riding. But the next time you ride him, his backend will be improved. Word of caution, don’t over do it, build them up gradually to pulling a load.

When they are pulling a pleasure cart, again it takes some active driving to keep the best gait. I spend a bit of time doing “long, loose dog walking” and maintaining good lateral flexion, just as I do when riding. If they come out of gear, fix it immediately, don’t let it become habit.
Enjoy![/QUOTE]

EXACTLY!

[Rudy]

[QUOTE=Tamara in TN;4651552]
well you did say you would not own one w/o too much followup…that’s pretty harsh

Tamara in TN[/QUOTE]

I don’t think it is harsh. It’s personal preference just like some people don’t want an older horse, or a young horse, or an untrained horse… I don’t want a trotting TWH.

Ok, so I will add too it and also say I would actually own one who had been paced intentionally if I really liked the horse. I will not own a trotting TWH though because to me it is a training problem and one I don’t want to deal with… unless the horse is perfect in every other way and I cannot find one just as perfect in a true pure gaited horse or one who was a bit pacey. I don’t like trying to get them looser and more swingy in their gait. They are, on the whole, more stiff than I want and can be too square in their gait. I would rather have a pacer and work to square him up which is easier for me to do. My own is pacey and can become really pacey if he is out of shape since it is easier for him to perform. So to work on that just slow him back down, ask him to get back in gait and build up slowly until he can sustain it better. His gait is always there, just hard to sustain at the higher speeds because he tires out with little work.

[Cherry]

Many, many years ago I taught my girlfriend’s Walking Horse mare to drive when she was twenty-five years old. :winkgrin: She had been given to my girlfriend by her uncle who had originally bought the mare for a cousin. If this mare had ever done a running walk neither my friend nor I had ever seen, or felt it–she only trotted for us.

We couldn’t figure out how to get her to gait and decided at her advanced age she didn’t have to do anything she didn’t want to do (so we just let the old gal trot)! :winkgrin:

It seems to me that having a Walking Horse that trots is a distinct advantage if you want to compete in any ADS shows… :yes:

Anyway, the old gal (Pearl) was a real trouper about it, a quick study and the three of us went on many a pleasurable drive together!

The problem with Walking Horses is some of them are better (truer) gaited than others. Some require more work than others to maintain the running walk. I don’t think I’d recommend a Walking Horse to a novice rider unless they had someone who could work with them to understand and develop the horse’s gaits…

[MySparrow]

OK, now I’m really confused. Is the running walk a gait that must be requested and maintained by the rider/driver? Or do TWHs offer it on their own?

This guy has not been ridden or handled in four years. I’ve got a long way to go before putting him in harness. I’ll be asking for help along the way, for sure. Thanks for all the input!!