Dry dog food - even premium lists meat 'meal' as 2nd, 3rd ingredients?

[Justa_Bob]

I am on the learning curve of reading dry dog food ingredients and am getting very annoyed. Reading labels started with a jolt when I looked at this one - flour and sugar are number 2 and 3 on the list:

Natural Balance Lamb Roll: Lamb Lungs, Wheat Flour, Sugar

One recommendation has been to avoid meat meals in dry dog food - but I am having no luck finding clear examples where meal is not a major ingredient. Even with the premium brands. The manufacturers may list a non-meal meat as the first ingredient, but all those I have looked at list a meat meal as second (and 3rd!). And it doesn’t take a math genius to know that the first ingredient can be 20% of the mix and the 2nd ingredient could be 19.9% of the mix. Which means meal is probably a significant ingredient and the manufacturer is just playing with numbers to get the ingredients to look better on the label. Especially when you start to see that the 4, 5, 6 ingredient is also a meal, not a meat.

So far, this is what I have found spot checking the first few ingredients:
Solid Gold example: Bison, Ocean Fish Meal
CANIDAE example: Salmon, salmon meal, menhaden fish meal
Blue: Deboned Chicken, Chicken Meal
Orijen: Boneless chicken*, chicken meal, chicken liver*, whole herring*, boneless turkey*, turkey meal, turkey liver*,

The problem is that the manufacturers do not have to give PERCENTS of the ingredients like meal vs meat. Leaving consumers in the dark of actual amounts of meal in any food. Protein is given as a guaranteed analysis - but meal is not broken out. It’s obvious why so many people are now making their own dog food!

Anyone have better luck with a dry kibble that is more meat than meal?

[Nezzy]

dogfoodadvisor.com has many good recommendations. i have started cooking for my dogs, as i am not impressed with anything that goes into kibble.

[BostonBanker]

Meat meal is not a bad ingredient at all - it is essentially meat with the water removed, which makes it a more dense source of protein than even regular meat. Maybe you are thinking of meat byproducts as something to avoid?

As long as the specific type of animal the meal comes from is named (ie “Chicken meal” or “salmon meal”), I have zero issue with it being in my dogs’ food.

[Justa_Bob]

Thank you for the link to dog food advisor. Yes, apparently not all meat meals are created equal. It’s great to have a guide!

Next question: for my dog (Boston Terrier), dry kibble is recommended for dental health (wet food causes more decay). How to you balance that home made food? Do you bake or dry home made dog food to improve dental health?

[wendy]

why do you not want “meal” in the first ingredients? listing “wet meat” as the first ingredient is one of those tricks manufacturers use to pretend the food has meat in it- for example, a lower-quality food trying to pretend it has a lot of meat in it will list something like: chicken, rice. Since the chicken is wet, it is mostly water, so you can put very little actual chicken into the product and still list “chicken” first. A food that lists chicken meal, rice will probably (but not necessarily) have more meat in it than a food that lists chicken, rice. When you’re talking about kibbles (uber- processed) I don’t see any advantage to putting fresh meat vs. meal into it- the fresh meat will get cooked down into meal anyway when making the kibble. And of course you have to worry about what exactly is that fresh meat doing while it’s being trucked to the dog food factory- rotting? meat meal doesn’t decompose readily.

another way to estimate the amount of meat is to look at the % protein- if it’s a typical kibble, it’ll have only 25% or even less protein on the label- to be more accurate, you’d have to calculate dry weights, but we’re just estimating, so go straight off the label. Meat in dry kibble-type form is somewhere around 35 to 40% protein, so in order to get it down to 25%, the kibble must have less than 60% meat in it. Of course you also have to take into account protein content of other ingredients- dry rice is only around 15% or so protein, so a food that has a simple list of chicken meal, rice and 25% protein on the label may very well be mostly meat. However, again, the manufacturers like to play tricks and “spike” the food with proteins- glutens, purified pea proteins, etc., or load them up with ingredients heavy in poor-quality proteins like soy, corn, peas, and other legumes. A food that says chicken, rice, corn gluten could easily have practically no meat in it at all and yet list chicken first and list it has 30%+ protein on the label.

-it’s a complete myth that dry kibble “cleans” the teeth. Most dogs don’t even chew kibble, they just swallow it whole. Usually it’s the high carb content of kibble that causes dental problems in the first place, so AVOIDING kibble is a better strategy for clean teeth. Many dogs fed soft ground-up very low carb raw diets have sparkly-clean teeth.

[ASBJumper]

[QUOTE=wendy;7442030]

-it’s a complete myth that dry kibble “cleans” the teeth. Most dogs don’t even chew kibble, they just swallow it whole. Usually it’s the high carb content of kibble that causes dental problems in the first place, so AVOIDING kibble is a better strategy for clean teeth. Many dogs fed soft ground-up very low carb raw diets have sparkly-clean teeth.[/QUOTE]

This.

Just think logically - if someone told you that you could keep your teeth cleaner by eating nothing but crackers and hard cookies every day, would you believe them??

[Justa_Bob]

Wow. I almost want to update my posts to reflect the incorrect information (understanding) of ingredients and dry kibble I posted. This is why COTHers are a great resource.

Thanks for the clarification on Meat vs high quality Meal and dry kibble and dental issues!

[Nezzy]

i do not feed RAW, but i know raw bones can help their teeth a bit. i do give my dogs nylabones which they love to chew and beef bones.

[cowboymom]

Our dogs have always chewed on raw deer leg/large bones or antlers, it’s just what Montana dogs did before the internet thought that it might not be a good idea. I still let them chew on the bones though now I will take them away if they’re old and dry or seem particularly rank (a friend’s dog got botulism from an elk skull)(and lived, but still) and my point is that all our dogs have very good clean white teeth, even the 14+ year old garbage gut. We’ve never had a problem, always had good teeth. Now I worry more than I used to about it but have never had a problem and apparently are still getting the benefits. That’s many dogs over about 20 years… and I hate to admit for lots of those years they were eating good old Dog Chow plus table scraps.

[Jhein12]

I feed raw. It does not have meat meal, although in kibble meat meal that is specified like chicken meal is not necessarily bad. Meat meal listed as byproduct meal, meat meal (not listing what protein they are using), those are bad. I would avoid those food rolls though, because of the wheat and sugar. Dogs can’t metabolize sugar like we can.

[jetsmom]

[QUOTE=Justa Bob;7442029]
Thank you for the link to dog food advisor. Yes, apparently not all meat meals are created equal. It’s great to have a guide!

Next question: for my dog (Boston Terrier), dry kibble is recommended for dental health (wet food causes more decay). How to you balance that home made food? Do you bake or dry home made dog food to improve dental health?[/QUOTE]

The dry=less decay is a myth.

Another good food website is www.dogfoodanalysis.com

[equisusan]

Smaller dogs can have chicken or duck necks just make sure they are raw and not cooked. You can still feed them whatever you want but these are good for teeth health.

[WorkingDrive]

A NAMED meat meal is quite different from the very vague “meat meal.”

Our dogs loved antlers…until one cracked a molar on a standard white tail antler (purchased from a company that sells antlers for dog chews.) $$$ later and a removed molar…and we ditched antlers.

[Fuego1]

Other posters covered it- it depends what the source of the meat meal is, but it is a good thing if you have a few named meat meals in your first few ingredients. It is a more concentrated meat source. Mine are currently getting Merrick Grain Free, the flavor they’re on now starts with “Deboned duck, turkey meal, salmon meal” so I feel comfortable that there’s a good amount of meat in there.

The only thing that helps maintain my little dog’s teeth is to give her bones that she can gnaw on, seems to make a difference and keep her happy.

[cowboymom]

I wouldn’t buy antlers or let them chew ones that have baked in the sun for a season but a fresh antler (that year’s shed or one that was on a deer we shot) is a lot different texture. My dogs also do really well with the cow hooves. I have six dogs now from a chi to a GP and they all do well on them.

My little chi got a fresh deer leg bone this fall and finally knocked out her retained baby tooth too!