You know I just realized I could not find anywhere the dam side of her Reba mare’s pedigree. Took some digging to determine her dam is half hackney: Rg Reba Kwpn (allbreedpedigree.com)
Which I mean that is what it is, but the absence of that info on USEF and Horse Telex seems intentional.
Yes, her typical bluster and bravado are MIA. Suddenly she doesn’t thank @Scribbler for her interest in her ‘wonderful’ horses and for being her (KS’s) number one fan.
KS: your horse, your responsibility. No amount of blame shifting makes you less accountable for all and everything done (and not done) for these mares and foals.
I note she does that rhetorical thing that some people do lately: say ‘I totally own this’ but before and after that empty phrase is blame shifting in overdrive. It’s the fault of these awful people that I hired and I totally own this; I trusted the wrong people and paid them tons of money and blah blah blah.
I.e., not owning it.
Hollow and trite Mea Culpa followed by meaningless words. In the earlier parts of the threads she seemed to think that any publicity was good publicity; probably not so much right now.
It’s like celebrities that have been married eight times - yes it might be YOU that is the problem.
And the Hackney stallion Cambridge Cole appears twice in Reba’s sire’s pedigree.
I had noted that although she listed multiple foals out of Reba, she didn’t mention Reba’s breed or pedigree, whereas for foals out of other dams, she did mention the dam’s registry. That told me right there that there was something about Reba’s bloodlines that she didn’t want to make known to potential buyers.
Just wandered over here & now I have to ask:
Is there a problem with Hackney Horse in the bloodlines?
They share a lot of traits with DHH & if KWPN approved the mare 
Not anything wrong in particular and I remember hearing that many years back it was more common to have hackney blood in a jumper. You’re probably right that in practice it’s not much different than a harness horse, but I think most people wouldn’t prefer to spend the same money for that pedigree as, say, this one where the mare has two offspring competing at Grand Prix level already: https://flandersfoalauction.be/en/paard/Trompetisto-SHG-Chacco-Blue-x-Calido-I
In fact, quite a bit less money, since that very cute Chacco Blue baby sold for €14,000, which comes out to just over $15,000 right now.
In addition to whatever the foal board came to on the ones that were sold in utero.
I don’t know if it happens very often, but I do remember at least one mare who used to compete against her own offspring in the Grand Prix classes. She came from Zangersheide, where they are meticulous about the horses they produce, and they would breed the most promising young mares before they were broke, so the mares would have a couple of babies on the ground before they even started their own showing careers.
One of Kate’s stated reasons for the odd mixes she was selling as sport horses was that the heavier gelders blood in the harness dams gave the horses calmer temperaments for ammies. Hackneys are very hot horses, so that kind of contradicts her rationale.
WAY too much line breeding in this pedigree for my taste. Not a fan.
The demand for Gelders blood has increased as of late as the gelderlander tends to be a bit more versatile, sturdier and more substantial of the harness type lines. I think Kate was simply trying to capitalize off of anything gelders related in the pedigree, regardless of quality. Her broodmares are not a good representation of any of the breeding directions in KWPN, in my opinion.
For example, this is the DHH stallion, Atleet:
The Gelders stallion, Alexandro P:
Kate’s broodmare:
With the carriage type mares she is using, obviously her foals aren’t the typical jumper conformation either.
Gelders and Harness are two separate breeding directions within KWPN. There may be some cross over , but it would be more common to see one of the Riding directions (Dressage and less common, Jumper) crossed to Gelders than a Harness horse.
Honestly I think the only thing that really mattered to her was that all these types fall under the KWPN banner, so she could then source big name semen, split tubes to save money, and get horses that she could advertise as Ditch Warmbloods. (Edited to add: that was spellcheck for Dutch! But it kind of fits.) The harness mares were much cheaper than getting actual quality jumper mares. I also wonder if coming from Arab world, she didn’t see an issue in flat croups?
In the dog world we might call these “designer breeds” but I feel like Kate’s operation is more Designer Outlet Breeds. Like how Banana Republic or other big brands source an entire secondary low cost low quality line that resembles their main line but not quite, for the factory outlet. But it has the label!
Anyhoo, back last year when I was just curious about breeding standards and online drama, Kate accused me of being some horrible stalker out to destroy “every aspect” of her life. At that point I wasn’t. I was quite happy for her to keep bouncing along being a nightmare online, and wait for the consequences to catch up with her, or not.
But since the revelations of deliberately and systematically starving foals and broodmares to save money, I really do think she should be permanently out of the animal business. There’s not much I can do about that, but hopefully people in Florida can do something (though likely unwise to post publicly about it, because this woman harassed people online and in real life).
[quote=“Scribbler, post:1949, topic:779727”]
Hackneys are very hot horses,
[/quote]j
In my brief & limited experience, I’ve met 2 who give the lie to that broad brush on the breed.
First was my neighbor’s pony who’d stand untied, noone at his head, in harness, in an open doorway - leading to unfenced fields & a busy road - as his cart was brought up.
Drat! Lost the pic of him doing that, but I do have this - ready for a Halter class:
Next, a 3yo Hackney Horse stallion, who was calm as he could be, when his young Amish owner showed him to a crowd of us - 3 friends & 3 of his younger sibs - all crowded into stallion’s 10x10 stall.
I have a blurry video of him at Trial by Fire* County Fair that Summer. Drat! Won’t upload 
*lights, loud metal bleachers, noisy crowd, vendors cooking just outside the ring… 
Now, my own Hackney Pony fits the bill.
Calm with me & people he gets to know, but he’s the Self-Appointed sentry of my farm & for 23yo, can put on moves like 2 
She has also repeatedly said that several of these foals would make great hunters, which is very unlikely with that sort of movement.
And not just any ol’ hunter. She proclaims several of them as being future Derby horses.
Who knows. Maybe some of them will be fancy in the air over a jump. But then, there’s that whole part in between the jumps that counts, too. That’s the part that perplexes me with her youngsters.
Thank you for this post.
It seems like this American breeder is pretending her DHH mares are Gelders … and marketed the foals as such.
But that’s incorrect. DHH and Gelders horses are different. KWPN DHH can be QUITE different from Amish bred DHH. And with Gelders horses, there is a “type” registry managed by KWPN, and there is a newer smaller “Classic” registry that has different pedigree requirements with a breed preservation focus.
I don’t even have a KWPN registered horse… or a DHH… or a Gelders horse… but I know this. I’m seeing more than one DHH cross marketed as a KWPN to the riding/sport market in America recently. I honestly think a lot of the sellers are ignorant. DHH can be quite nice, but even the fully KWPN registered horses? They were not bred to the riding type standards. It’s disingenuous to market them as a riding type KWPN horse.
The buyers are also ignorant - they think KWPN always means Dutch Warmblood. Sellers either think the same or they KNOW there is a difference but try to put one over on an uneducated buyer by saying something like “He is registered with KWPN - you know, like (insert name of famous Dutch WB hunter or jumper).”
Yes. Definitely.
It makes me twitch.
In my uneducated opinion, a KWPN registered DHH has been purposefully bred as a DRIVING horse. It might be a really nice DRIVING horse, it might be really beautiful and athletic, but comparing it to Nimmerdor’s dam (who was actually half TB) and grand dam? C’mon people. This is ridiculous. It’s not 1960 anymore. You are just trying to sell a DHH to someone who actually wants to buy a riding type KWPN sport horse.
And before anyone says it… yes… people should evaluate the horse in front of them because you can’t ride the papers. But there is a reason that registries involving breeding standards and goals and inspections of breeding stock exist. If the horse comes from 5 generations of DRIVING horses, it’s likely it’s best suited for DRIVING.
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