Dutch harness horse drama. Update major mare/ foal neglect Nov 2023 post 1782 Update Kate Shearer responds post 1930 Nov 25/23

[omare]

SBS from my understanding do what they have to do, to come up with xx number of sperm with xxx progressive motility rate (aim for at least 30 percent) in 8 straw doses. However, as you point out, they also discuss in the below article, how that differs across stallions/freezing agents. the different # of straws and straw sizes (and stallion variances).

What Exactly is a Dose of Frozen Semen?

"To address this issue we have standardized all doses prepared by SBS Affiliated Laboratories to be comprised of 8 x 0.5mL straws, regardless of the post-thaw motility. This way when you receive 8 straws from an SBS Affiliate lab you know you have a full dose. SBS semen is frozen at a concentration of 200-250 million/mL, resulting in a total of 800 million to 1 billion sperm in a final dose volume of 4mL. Given our minimum recommended post-thaw motility for commercial distribution of 30% progressive, each breeding dose therefore also exceeds the industry recommended minimum of 200 million progressively motile sperm per dose after thawing.

And here is what I found on it ICIS -I have no experience with it as it seemed an expensive option. Colorado use to be n the forefront of horse repro technology, so I am guessing they know of what they speak? But I am surprised as I would expect each freezing may reduce fertility/motility?(Haven’t we all been taught not to refreeze food as it is compromised?!)

FREEZING AND REFREEZING FOR INTRACYTOPLASMIC SPERM INJECTION

Freezing Stallion Semen - Equine Reproduction Laboratory

"Our staff can also manage frozen semen for intracytoplasmic sperm injection (ICSI). Stallion semen can be frozen in ICSI doses by diluting the sperm into a very low concentration (i.e. 1 million sperm per straw), generating a large number of straws. Alternatively, an existing straw of frozen semen can be thawed and the semen diluted by adding more freezing extender and the diluted semen loaded into new straws and refrozen semen. The goal is to optimize the use and minimize the wastage of valuable frozen semen in an assisted reproduction technology program. Please contact us for additional information on refreezing stallion frozen semen.

[MHM]

@omare

(Haven’t we all been taught not to refreeze food as it is compromised?!)

I would be wondering about the odds that the semen that’s been stored has never once thawed unintentionally due to equipment failure or a power outage or whatever. Especially if it was somebody who got their own tank at home and stored it in their backyard.

Particularly with the older stuff that’s been around for years or even decades from horses that are long gone.

[svvdressage]

Totally off subject but I find it fascinating that Ray LaCroix is now a dressage trainer

Four Skills to Help You Become a Better Dressage Trainer

[oldernewbie]

@Mander

Is this what you were looking for?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vYl5G0A4jFY

[oldernewbie]

He has been for a long time. He never seemed to me to be a wheeler and dealer like his brother.

[libgrrl]

Thanks! I was thinking this must be a breed show phenomenon that I wasn’t familiar with.

[Zlotych]

Frozen semen is stored in tanks holding liquid nitrogen, so a power failure would have no affect on them. Allowing a tank to run dry, mishandling the straws or prolonged exposure to air temperature when transferring straws could all be more valid reasons for concern.

[oldernewbie]

I think they’re thinking of peanut rolling. Not as bad in most Arabs but everywhere in QH western please. Like this or even lower. Painful to watch (at least for me)

[DownYonder]

Ah, I have been away from the breeding world for many a year now, so it is news to me that they have figured out a technique for refreezing equine semen and getting subsequent pregnancies from it. But I am not surprised - there have been enormous strides in the past 30-35 years with frozen equine semen, including the ICSI process. I believe Judy Yancey was pretty much the first person in the U,S. to start importing frozen from Europe (Germany) - in 1988 - and proved that new techniques for freezing were pretty reliable for many stallions (“reliable” meaning that there are high pregnancy success rates). And techniques have continued to be improved over the years although some stallions don’t have good pregnancy stats when using frozen semen. Donnerhall was one of the most well-known, although he was starting to get aged as techniques became more refined and even his fresh semen quality went downhill.

[BraveSC]

She’s posted actual prices now on her page if you need something to indulge in over your morning coffee… all 325K worth.

[DownYonder]

@oldernewbie

I think they’re thinking of peanut rolling. Not as bad in most Arabs but everywhere in QH western please. Like this or even lower. Painful to watch (at least for me)

The most painful thing for me to watch in Western Pleasure classes is the canter (lope). The horses pretty much drag the leading foreleg along the ground - they almost look like they have a broken leg or shoulder. And God forbid the horse try to produce a more natural gait - the rider reprimands them by jerking them in the mouth, usually quite hard. The last time I saw a warm-up for a WP class (admittedly years ago), I was sickened by all the mouth-yanking going on.

[MHM]

Yes, I think maybe on the other thread somebody said that the tank in somebody’s backyard might need to be refilled every four months or something like that. That seems to me like a thing that could easily slide through the cracks at many operations.

[Zlotych]

Its possible, certainly. However if you have a significant investment in semen stored, you are more than likely not going to let that happen. They do sell alarms for storage tanks and its good practice to dip the level frequently.

[MHM]

@Zlotych

They do sell alarms for storage tanks and its good practice to dip the level frequently.

“Good practice” is not the first phrase that leaps to mind in the current discussion.

[Zlotych]

Indeed, but if the semen is (and has been) professionally stored at a vet clinic, the point is moot.

[MHM]

Yes, if that’s actually the case.

[Unfforgettable]

And the lame looking lope with that sideways crabbing movement…they cannot canter straight. I watched a video of that high selling roan horse mentioned somewhere above…he looked like a dead horse. No expression, robotic and dull movement, sideways lope. It was disturbing and sad.

[Mander]

@Unfforgettable

they cannot canter straight.

They can. They are trained not to.
It used to be a bit more exaggerated I think (it’s been ages since I watched any WP, but I used to be in such circles), but the haunches in at the canter is the result of attempting to make the horse appear to be moving even slower than their already glacial pace.

[sascha]

@oldernewbie @Unfforgettable I’ve heard rolling in Arabian circles as rolling UP the neck, so the exact opposite of peanut rolling. Get the neck up and roll it in. Like rollkur only with the neck as up as possible. Ugh.

[Mander]

I suppose - I do wish the clips were more than 5 seconds each. I want to really see how each horse really goes!!!

Some of them do look rather nice, although the flat croup clearly makes it challenging for them to sit behind (even the one doing pirouettes/tempis isn’t truly sitting). It’s also interesting to see some correctly muscled swan necks. The underlying shape is still there but it doesn’t give me the ick, and can probably look rather elegant.