Dutch harness horse drama. Update major mare/ foal neglect Nov 2023 post 1782 Update Kate Shearer responds post 1930 Nov 25/23

[Warmblood1]

@Kasheare

The foal that won the futurity and was reserve champion best young jumper is out of a ulandro mare….all my Mares are harness and gelderlander lines crossed with jumpers. My “donor” mares are full harness/gelded. Discuss breeding all you want but clearly what I am doing is working lol

I think I’m looking at the right FB page. Hopefully. These are the lines you are breeding, right? I’ll copy/paste:

Reba(Ulandro) x Chacco Blue-fetal sex filly; due Feb 17 (25k)
Reba x Ogano Sitte-fetal sex colt; due March 7 (18k)
Reba x For Pleasure-fetal sex filly; due March 14 (22k)
Chanel(Magnum Psyche) x Jaleet-no fetal sex; due April 1 (12k)
Reba x Cornet Oblensky-no fetal sex; due April 1 (16k)
Reba x Comme il Faut-no fetal sex; due April 12 (16k)
Val(Vaandrager) x Chicardo-no fetal sex; due April 22 (12k)
Bianca(Teo) x Royce-no fetal sex; due April 22 (16k)
Reba x Emerald-no fetal sex; due May 1 (18k)
Reba x DeNiro-fetal sex colt; due May 12 (25k)
Evie(Graaf Kelly) x Casquino-no fetal sex; due May 16 (12k)
Trixie(Ivamor) x Chacco Blue 2; due May 29 (14k)
Reba x Jackaroo-awaiting fetal sex; due July 18 (18k)

Is Reba DHH on the damline, too?
Magnum Psyche… the Arabian stallion?
Val by Vaandrager … DHH on damline as well?
I don’t recognize Ivamor… Also DHH?
I recognize the other names outside of Teo.

I’m asking because I’m genuinely curious about the crosses and the breeding. I study pedigrees and some degree of breeding daily and am also a small boutique (dressage) breeder. I love this kind of thing. Not a lot of people cross heavy DHH blood directly with other performance lines and I’m just curious what your results have been.

[Fiesta01]

@BrownDerby

Maybe it’s time to add the threat of legal action to the bingo card.

Good idea. I had already penciled it in on mine, just in case.

[Zlotych]

ONE Foal. Foal awards are nice for marketing, but basing the success of a program on one baby that has not even shown it can do the job in the breeding direction is really a stretch. Toss a handful of rocks and one is bound to hit a target. Stay humble.

[mvp]

@Scribbler

@Kasheare

The foal that won the futurity and was reserve champion best young jumper is out of a ulandro mare….all my Mares are harness and gelderlander lines crossed with jumpers. My “donor” mares are full harness/gelded. Discuss breeding all you want but clearly what I am doing is working lol

Gelded mares. Ok.

Why be so ungenerous as to correct a typo?

[mvp]

@Scribbler

I can’t find the original post to zombie resurrect. So starting new. A year or two ago someone started a thread complaining about an American breeder who was creating DHH but marketing them as Dutch WB, which wasn’t strictly speaking untrue, but the horses had flat croups and harness movement, not really dressage perfection.

Long conversation ensued on merits of DHH, but it also became evident the breeder was a drama magnet. I think she was never nsmed but I managed to put together enough details to identify her and follow her on SM to see what the scoop was.

So many red flags. Breeder had mares and foals scattered across the Southwest and Midwest. Resultant drama about unpaid bills and mares going hungry. Worked as a braider for breed shows, much cursing of clients who cancelled. Vague posting about folks who done her wrong. Most recently she is reporting some kind of scuffle with a drunk at a barn in Ocala that has led to her having charges of assault and battery laid against him.

Anyhow, wondering if anyone has been following this dumpster fire?

Man, o, man the Dressage Forum attracts some mean girls. This thread and the other pile-ons that have become more common scare me from y’all.

I’ll stay out, but I had one question for @Kasheare: When you were breeding DHH horses and advertising those as jumpers and/or other riding horses, did you, in fact, call them Dutch WBs so that folks might think they were from the KWPN book and not the DHH book (or Gelderlanders or even Tuigpaards as they were long ago)? I just want to see if I remember correctly. You can see my comments up thread for context. If I was outta line and remembered wrong, I want to know so I can correct that to anyone I might have said that too.

Thanks for taking the time to consider my question. If you want less drama here, you are welcome to PM me.

[Kasheare]

Hi! Yes Chanel is an Arabian and has given me two exceptional hunter crosses to Jaleet, scot Tom man’s harness line Kwpn. As to the rest of the mares they are all harness/gelder crosses and tuigpaard in type. This was the first year I could go to keuring as last two years have been cancelled. All my foals went first or second premium. I had one foal that was tuigpaard by Jaleet out of Bianca that barely squeaked by as a tuigpaard(had to be presented that way) and the judges told me to bring her back at 3yo and present her as a hunter and they would more than likely change her stud book to hunter type. So a full tuigpaard can change books in fact at 3yo to a different type. That’s why when people try to differentiate the “Dhh” from others….there are those that have changed books and are now different types than tuigpaard. My viewpoint is these lines were bred to be extravagant and elastic but at the same time workhorse and stay sound. Why wouldn’t I want to bring more of that back into sport right now. Things are hot and unsound. Plus ok if mine only jump 1.20m or a prelim Eventer….that is the ideal amateur market. The pros aren’t paying the big bucks, the Ammys are. I want what we were importing in the 90s again. That body and mind. So I found a way to create it here.

[Kasheare]

I did advertise them as Kwpn papered since they had KWPN papers, and they are registered Dutch warmbloods. Then lines are tuigpaard and gelderlander. The other books stem off these books anyways. Interestingly enough the people that purchased all the horses I represented were aware of the lines and said it didn’t matter to them as the horse was a gem or moved amazing or jumped amazing. Then I had some buy mares just for the lines to enter into their breeding programs. No one bought a horse without a full explanation of lines just as I do now. Like my Halifax colt who was high up in the keuring this year I explain he’s got heartbreaker in his lines so they tend to be harder mouths to ride. I try to thoroughly explain the lines to any prospective buyer. I don’t know anyone that will buy a 30k young prospect without wanting to know the lines and have always thoroughly explained it. There has not been a disappointed buyer yet.

[Kasheare]

You are very right! This was the first year since my home reds hit the ground that a keuring was available. So I have two foal crops that didn’t go. But 6/6 went first or second premium this year. I would say that’s pretty dang good.

[Kasheare]

These are two Arab/Dutch crosses. The Jaleet(without roses) went hunter in hand champion at regionals and the one with roses was dressage in hand. They are both 2yo

[CanteringCarrot]

See, now this thread is getting interesting again. I actually find that to be an interesting breeding program that could be quite successful (doesn’t seem like it’s off to a bad start!). The explanation behind the breeding program actually makes some sense, and would be interesting to follow.

[Kasheare]

Here is Bianca x Diabolo d’Esquelmes(bay) and Bling x Con Capilot (chestnut) 2021 foals I did the bling x con capilot cross again this year and she went second premium this year just got that she was smaller size but great reach and movement. Bling is retired now

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[endlessclimb]

Do you have more pictures of the one with roses? That picture is not terribly flattering to her topline.

[Kasheare]

This is a 5yo out of Bianca and full tuigpaard. Excelling in her hunter home in CA and the trainer is in love with the ride ability and jump. This was her first time jumping at 2

[Kasheare]

Here is a horse I sourced and was purchased by a GP trainer. Have an investor so she can produce him to the top level. He’s 3…. https://youtu.be/I0GVOeteUrQ

[Kasheare]

Wendy x cielo B 2021 (went to trainer in Carolina’s) and had a 2022 is with me in Florida but owned by a trainer in Pennsylvania…

Video of 2022 grey filly by Olympic jumper imothep out of ivanka and then bay is by casquino out of evie(her first foal) and I repeated this cross for 2023. Last is ivankas 2020 colt by figaro b that is much loved in a hunter home in ca.

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[enjoytheride]

In general, Arabian DHH crosses are popular in the saddleseat world but tend to make very hot horses that I personally don’t find make good ammy horses, you will find SOME in dressage but not a lot given their conformation that makes dressage more challenging. The breeding goal is absolutely a saddleseat way of moving. At the beginning of the sport horse movement you found a lot bleeding over into sport horse (main ring trainers tried to sell all their drop outs as dressage prospects) but today the emphasis is more on a traditional dressage type breeding.

For example, you breed to Graaf Kelly if you want a half arab saddleseat horse and you’re interested in main ring and Gaudi if you want a half arab dressage horse and you’re interested in sport horse.

For arabs, sport horse regionals can very wildly in what ribbons depending on the location of the show and competition and I personally would put more weight onto a nationals win.

[2tempe]

WAY behind, but I had to laugh at your post and the risk of a donkey. I have a Lusi/Hannoverian, pretty darn talented, closing in on GP but i do think his ears are big, and we laugh about it regularly.

[Kasheare]

I would beg to differ. Both of mine are with Sporthorse trainers in California and both owned by amateur owners that show them. Most laidback of them all. The taller one got backed and they just hopped on no worries in the world etc. again it is all about the right crosses. And actually two of the horses I posted above are by grass kelly(the one with Jessica wisdom under saddle) and evie my broodmare. Both very laid back and quiet! Again it’s easy to get a horse up but most Arab people bred to majesteit and it did not work as amateurs couldn’t ride that much movement.

[Kasheare]

Not sure if you will find any satisfaction with something I post but sure…she’s won about everything in hand at multiple shows but hey yes you are correct from behind your laptop. Lol I just text the owner for another video she posted of third ride under saddle but I can’t save it from fb.

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[Kasheare]

Thank goodness mine have national in hand too! Lol And Scottsdale.