Dutch harness horse drama. Update major mare/ foal neglect Nov 2023 post 1782 Update Kate Shearer responds post 1930 Nov 25/23

[Scribbler]

@Kasheare

Yes they do. I’ve actually gotten a ton of private messages and support from this post, plus was able to educate many on lines. So I thank you for that. I will stay tuned for who you decide to bring up next.

Well, I’m glad you feel supported.

But if people aren’t speaking up in the public thread, though, it doesn’t do anything for your public profile. Generally on COTH if people feel someone is being mistreated on a thread, they are quite prompt in jumping on the thread to correct the impression. And people will even join the forums specifically to comment if they feel strongly about a topic. So far there is no one who knows you IRL coming on to here to say that our general impression of you is wrong.

[CuriosoJorge]

@Kasheare

even if that knowledge of changing breeding direction of tuigpaard is incorrect.

I see that DMK’s warning to you re: FAFO fell on deaf ears. I’m not never wrong, but it is a rare thing. I have also been doing this for a very long time.

There is a handy registration chart available from the KWPN. You should study it, since you seem so enamored with crossing tuigpaards with riding horses.

Direct quote from the KWPN bylaws:
Article 18 - Change of breeding direction or discipline

1. At the request of the registered party, the breeding direction or discipline in which a horse is registered can be changed from the year in which the horse reaches the age of three years, as follows:
   a. From the breeding direction of riding horse, the discipline of dressage horse or from the discipline of
   jumper or from the breeding direction of harness horse to the breeding direction of Gelder horse, provided that the test shows that the horse concerned, with regard to exterior, movement and bloodline, fits the breeding direction of Gelder horse as described in the Selection Regulations.
   b. From the breeding direction of Gelder horse to the breeding direction of Harness Horse, provided that the test shows that the horse concerned, with regard to exterior and movement fits the breeding direction of Harness Horse and one of the parents of the horse concerned is registered in the breeding direction of Harness Horse as described in the Selection Regulations.
   c. From the breeding direction of Gelder horse or from the breeding direction of riding horse or from the discipline of dressage horse to the discipline of jumper, provided that the inspection or aptitude test shows that the relevant horse’s exterior and aptitude for jumping fits the discipline of jumpers, as described in the Selection Regulations.
   d. From the breeding direction of Gelder horse or from the breeding direction of jumper to the discipline of dressage horse, provided that the inspection or aptitude test shows that the relevant horse’s exterior and aptitude for dressage fits the discipline of dressage horses, as described in the Selection Requirements.

It’s not just tuigpaards that can change breeding directions.

[Kasheare]

Actually many have commented that they do not want your wrath and I understand that. You can be relentless as I said beating a dead horse. The conversation has turned multiple times to actual knowledge about lines and such and you bring it back to a mean girl witch hunt. That’s fine though. That’s what you find pleasure in and his your opinion. I just choose to ignore it and actually discuss on topic with others. Now if you would like to talk about breeding, etc I would be open to a conversation with you. But you haven’t made a single post except to try to discredit or harm me.

[Kasheare]

Ok I’m glad you looked it up because above you were stating that no one can cross breeding directions. So hey yeah for new knowledge! While I knew what I was talking about I’m glad you went and found the actual rule to prove my above point about being able to change direction! Good on ya!

[Scribbler]

But from what you’ve quoted there is no option to change to “hunter type,” which is what @Kasheare says she plans to do? That actually makes sense since “hunters” is an American discipline that doesn’t exist in this form in Europe. And the European sport riding horse registries are structured around the international sports of jumping and dressage.

[Kasheare]

It’s alright. I emailed the registry to clarify this in a nice wrapped up email for all of you

[Scribbler]

@Kasheare

Thank you for your comment, but no I was told to bring her back at 3 to change her from tuigpaard to hunter type which you can actually do with tuigpaards. I’m sorry if I did not explain that clearly enough for you.

But the information that @CuriosoJorge posted doesn’t have an option for “hunter type” in the KWPN studbook. Just jumper and dressage and the harness types. Am I missing something?

Jumper and Hunter are distinct types of horses doing different jobs and moving in different ways.

I’m a little worried about a sport horse breeder in North America that doesn’t know this already.

[Kasheare]

Kwpn-NA offers hunter type for registration.

[Scribbler]

@Kasheare

Actually many have commented that they do not want your wrath and I understand that. You can be relentless as I said beating a dead horse. The conversation has turned multiple times to actual knowledge about lines and such and you bring it back to a mean girl witch hunt. That’s fine though. That’s what you find pleasure in and his your opinion. I just choose to ignore it and actually discuss on topic with others. Now if you would like to talk about breeding, etc I would be open to a conversation with you. But you haven’t made a single post except to try to discredit or harm me.

Ah bless their hearts. I hereby offer a full amnesty for anyone who knows @kasheare IRL to post their positive experiences with her and/or her horses and I will stand corrected.

[Scribbler]

@Kasheare

Kwpn-NA offers hunter type for registration.

@CuriosoJorge Hmm. This wasn’t in the KWPN bylaws you posted.

[skydy]

KWPN NA Hunters are mentioned. It sounds as if @Kasheare was told to bring the foal back as a 3 year old and try for that section. There is obviously no guarantee of success.

Breeding Goals - KWPN-NA

[cutter99]

Who had “mean girls” for BINGO???

Please raise your hands!!!

@Kasheare you obviously have underestimated the camaraderie and tone of this board. If people were actually defending you, they would be doing it here on this thread. That is most certainly the way it works here. People might disagree very publicly here, but they will also be the first to support you when warranted.

The freakin’ wrath of Scribbler??? ROFLMAO!!!

Scribbler is one of the most well-spoken, well-thought out posters on this board. She has never displayed wrath that I have seen.

I think the reason you were so disparaging to posters here concerning age @Kasheare is that you are aware that with age comes experience, and with experience comes knowledge, and with knowledge comes the ability to see right through BS no matter how thick it is being thrown against the wall!

I am jumping up and down calling BS!

[Kasheare]

Haha no offense I would not go to any of you for knowledge that I need on any subject lol

[BigMama1]

@Kasheare

Haha no offense I would not go to any of you for knowledge that I need on any subject lol

That would be a shame on your part, as there are some genuine experts on this board who impart a lot of valuable information. Those who choose to ignore it are only shortchanging themselves in the end.

[sascha]

No, really, I need to know the material your shovel is made out of. It is extremely durable.

[Scribbler]

@BigMama1

@Kasheare

Haha no offense I would not go to any of you for knowledge that I need on any subject lol

That would be a shame on your part, as there are some genuine experts on this board who impart a lot of valuable information. Those who choose to ignore it are only shortchanging themselves in the end.

Yes. I’ve stayed on this board because there is obvious depth of knowledge. One gets to figure out who knows their stuff from reading posts. And I appreciate that when I make a factual error someone will call me out on it, and I have learned something. I’m always willing to stand corrected when I’ve made a mistake, and I’m also willing to step back when it’s obviously a matter of taste or opinion and not keep arguing.

For the record, I don’t really like the harness horse crosses being created here because most of my eye for movement has been developed in relation to dressage, and in how the horse can be collected and balanced. But I see that a number of posters are legitimately interested in these crosses and think they have a use in jumpers, so I’m not participating in those conversations because I don’t have anything to add.

[Scribbler]

OK, thank you! I was just going off the previous information.

[BigMama1]

I have known some very nice harness crosses, most notably two Clyde / Hackney crosses who were very successful at FEI dressage. And many of them make super low level eventers and “all-around” horses. But that does not make them comparable to dressage or jumper-bred warmbloods. In fact a lot of the physical characteristics which make a good harness horse good, are a detriment in dressage.

I have no issue with people experimenting by with unconventional mixing of breeds if that’s their jam - as long as they are carefully selecting top quality mares and sires. But to me it’s a bit like the dog people breeding all the doodle breeds. Breed an Arab to a Lusitano, or a Gelder to a Saddlebred, for all I care, but be honest to buyers about what they are getting. A doodle, no matter how many generations in, is still a mutt. It’s a mixed breed with little guarantee of quality or consistency in which characteristics get passed on.

Speaking of weird breeds, I saw a hackney x Lusitano advertised the other day in what had to be the worst sale video of all time. Nothing against the horse itself, but the way it was ridden and how it was presented could not have been more unflattering.

[Scribbler]

@BigMama1

I have known some very nice harness crosses, most notably two Clyde / Hackney crosses who were very successful at FEI dressage. And many of them make super low level eventers and “all-around” horses. But that does not make them comparable to dressage or jumper-bred warmbloods. In fact a lot of the physical characteristics which make a good harness horse good, are a detriment in dressage.

I have no issue with people experimenting by with unconventional mixing of breeds if that’s their jam - as long as they are carefully selecting top quality mares and sires. But to me it’s a bit like the dog people breeding all the doodle breeds. Breed an Arab to a Lusitano, or a Gelder to a Saddlebred, for all I care, but be honest to buyers about what they are getting. A doodle, no matter how many generations in, is still a mutt. It’s a mixed breed with little guarantee of quality or consistency in which characteristics get passed on.

Speaking of weird breeds, I saw a hackney x Lusitano advertised the other day in what had to be the worst sale video of all time. Nothing against the horse itself, but the way it was ridden and how it was presented could not have been more unflattering.

oooh no. Not Hackney x Lusitano. The Iberians cross nicely with QH, TB, and some WB. The come out fairly Iberian but the TB/WB can give them longer gaits. They can be crossed with Arabs but you get a more Arab type, not the best idea for dressage. But Hackney x Lusitano just isn’t a good idea.

[BigMama1]

I don’t think that particular cross is a good idea at all. And - based on the video - the horse seems to be in the hands of a “professional” without a lot of skill. No idea if they are the breeder or were just asked to sell it. Either way, it’s a great reminder that just because two breeds are wonderful, that doesn’t mean they will be wonderful mixed together.