Dutch harness horse drama. Update major mare/ foal neglect Nov 2023 post 1782 Update Kate Shearer responds post 1930 Nov 25/23

[Cat_Tap]

Since we are discussing unsafe footwear, I was stupid enough to quickly fetch a horse from the field for a lesson. To safe time I decided To go out in my work clothes so the student could groom while I changed. I was wearing open toed sandals when the horse went to stomp a fly but hit my foot instead.

The stud on the shoe went through my toe nail, grinding it and severing the artery. Needless to say the lesson of the day was: do not wear sandals around horses. I drove myself to the emergency wearing one rubber boot that was filling up with blood.

[Jaegermonster]

@Cat_Tap

Since we are discussing unsafe footwear, I was stupid enough to quickly fetch a horse from the field for a lesson. To safe time I decided To go out in my work clothes so the student could groom while I changed. I was wearing open toed sandals when the horse went to stomp a fly but hit my foot instead.

The stud on the shoe went through my toe nail, grinding it and severing the artery. Needless to say the lesson of the day was: do not wear sandals around horses. I drove myself to the emergency wearing one rubber boot that was filling up with blood.

That sounds terrible but I’m
Curious why he had studs in in the field?

[quietann]

Might be snow studs. It’s pretty common where I am; in fact my retired mare has her “winter shoes” with studs and rim pads on. Never mind that all we’re getting is rain, so far.

[Jaegermonster]

@quietann

Might be snow studs. It’s pretty common where I am; in fact my retired mare has her “winter shoes” with studs and rim pads on. Never mind that all we’re getting is rain, so far.

Is it ? Ok I had no idea. I just thought they were always supposed to come out. Although she said she had open toed sandals . Ugh I can’t even imagine

[sascha]

@Jaegermonster

Is it ?

Yup. They can range in size from little hammer in dots to the smallest square screw ins. They make a huge difference in traction in winter.

[beowulf]

Yup! Snow studs are a prerequisite here in NE US if your horse has shoes and sees turnout. We get big strips of snowpack because of our climate; it’s not uncommon to see a 40+ degree fluctuation in temperature a few times a week. The constant thaw/freeze cycle with layers of fresh snow turns flat areas into ice rinks. Think black ice on the pavement, but instead invisible under a nice layer of snow.

Just last week my area went from 55F to 5F overnight. Thankfully no snow, but it had rained all week leading up to it so we got some ugly frozen patches.

This is a pretty standard set up (not my photo). You see the boriums on the heel and toe, and then a snow pad which is created to prevent piling/balling up of the snow in the shoe. Most borium/snowstud shoes come with the studs pre-mounted in, they do not come out - unlike drilling and tapping shoes for studs that you see for jumping or XC.

And of course, I’d be remiss if I didn’t mention if you[g] put studs/boriums on a horse with hind shoes they absolutely should not be turned out in group settings. Horses can and do get killed by them.

[sascha]

@beowulf

Most borium/snowstud shoes come with the studs pre-mounted in, they do not come out - unlike drilling and tapping shoes for studs that you see for jumping or XC.

That’s a decision between farrier and horse owner. When I did a lot of outdoor riding in the winter at speed I had screw ins. They usually stayed in all winter, but if conditions got so bad that horses weren’t even going out for turnout, I could take them out. The past few years the weather has been so crap that there has been virtually no outdoor riding, so hammer in teeny little things have been sufficient for turnout.

[Jaegermonster]

Ah ok thanks. I’ve never lived/ ridden anywhere it got that cold so I’ve just always taken my studs out after riding. Never thought about leaving them in for turnout

[beowulf]

It’s nice that your farrier provides the option but that wouldn’t work in my area. I haven’t seen removable studs offered for winter traction here. I did know of one ski-jorer who did have her borium shoes drilled and tapped on top of boriums already added, but it was not a “removable borium” deal.

@Jaegermonster Very jealous to read you’ve not experienced a proper NE winter. They’re terrible, stay where you’re at. On the plus side, these borium bits are typically very small (though they come in all ranges/sizes) - much smaller than the average stud.

[Cat_Tap]

@Jaegermonster

@Cat_Tap

Since we are discussing unsafe footwear, I was stupid enough to quickly fetch a horse from the field for a lesson. To safe time I decided To go out in my work clothes so the student could groom while I changed. I was wearing open toed sandals when the horse went to stomp a fly but hit my foot instead.

The stud on the shoe went through my toe nail, grinding it and severing the artery. Needless to say the lesson of the day was: do not wear sandals around horses. I drove myself to the emergency wearing one rubber boot that was filling up with blood.

That sounds terrible but I’m
Curious why he had studs in in the field?

Back then my jumps were set up in a grassy field and the studs were to prevent slipping.

[Cat_Tap]

For the last few years my horses have been barefooted, no more jumping or showing. Their feet are so much better and there are no worries about loosing shoes in the mud or snowballs in the winter.

[quietann]

That’s great, but barefoot doesn’t work for all horses in all care situations. E.g. I’d pulled my mare’s shoes when she retired, and she did pretty well as long as she was in boots for hand walks outside, and turnout if the ground was hard.

I moved her in July to a barn with 24/7 turnout instead of 6-7 hours. She spent a couple of months stomping at flies on hard ground as we had a serious drought (and yes she had ShooFly boots on, but only the fronts as she didn’t tolerate them on her hinds.) By September, she was really, really footsore, had very thin soles, etc. She grows hoof well, but not enough to keep up with those conditions. BO was not willing to keep her in boots all the time (plus she was getting rubs etc.) So she is back in front shoes with pads, as she had been for 10 years, and much happier. The tradeoff is worth it because other than the hoof issues, she’s done very well at this barn.

[sascha]

@beowulf

The impracticality would be a turnoff for us northern folk who are too busy constantly shoveling snow and cursing where we live to fuss with whether the temporary break in freezing weather warrants a stud change.

I think you misunderstood. Normally screw-in studs stay in all winter, but if occasion warrants, they can be removed by the horse owner. I was glad to be able to remove them when needed for reasons I won’t get into here The past few years, we’ve just gone with the tiny jobbies because Mutha Naytcha no longer seems to support skijoring in my area

Interesting about screw-in + borium - I’ve never done that - always one or the other. or the tiny little dot hammer ins.

[beowulf]

I thiiink we are referring to two different things. Your reply to my post about boriums/snow studs being removable as a discussion between owner and farrier confuses me, as boriums are not typically removable. It sounds like you had regular screw-in studs that your farrier opted to use in lieu of snow-shoes/boriums. Which is fine, every region has different norms and what works for me may not work for you.

Borium/snow studs are tungsten bits that you hammer into the shoe after it’s been set, but before it’s put on the horse. I did have one horse lose one of his boriums one shoe cycle, no idea how that happened and has only occurred once in the thirty-something years I’ve had horses in the NE.

I hear you on the Mother Nature front, last year I didn’t get much of any riding at all done and it’s shaping up to be the same way this year, too. As much as I hate winter, from a horse keeping standpoint I love the snow and how much the horses enjoy it. I’d take it any day over the awful mud and frozen ruts we’re having.

Edit to fix tone, which came across as accusatory, not my intention!

[sascha]

No. I was definitely referring to 2 or 3 different types of snow traction, one of which is regular screw-in studs which I used for several years in lieu of (usually tiny) hammer ins or larger Borium (tungsten carbide) which is usually applied with a forge.

The decision on the type of traction a horse owner wants on a particular horse is between the horse owner and the farrier. There are at least 3 that I am aware of. Over the past 30+ years I’ve used all 3 I mentioned above. Over the past 10 years, only tiny hammer ins or screw ins. This IS something that is discussed if a horse owner has a preference. If not, the farrier does what they are comfortable with or what they feel would be best for that horse in that area doing that type of work getting turned out in X conditions and not in Y conditions, etc.

It’s not as simple as slapping 2-4 tungsten carbide blobs on each shoe and calling it a day. I mean it CAN be, but it isn’t necessarily what is best for every horse in every situation. I personally don’t like the absolutely jarring traction that tungsten carbide gives and am able to make other choices based on the barns I’ve been at for the past 10 years absolutely not turning out on ice.

[sascha]

@beowulf

I hear you on the Mother Nature front, last year I didn’t get much of any riding at all done and it’s shaping up to be the same way this year, too. As much as I hate winter, from a horse keeping standpoint I love the snow and how much the horses enjoy it. I’d take it any day over the awful mud and frozen ruts we’re having.

Edit to fix tone, which came across as accusatory, not my intention!

Back at ya! I think the ol’ weather bat probably has us both annoyed and not communicating clearly - my apologies!

I was really lucky to have sand ring footing the past 2 days (IN CANADA! WHAT!!! IN JANUARY!!! - an no, not on the west coast lol) but we are now drowning ahead of the next hard freeze, and no useful snow in the forecast. Almost makes me want to move north where they still have winters so that I could skijor and just ride and maybe even ski … but the summer bugs being even worse than down here in the armpit of the province make me suck it up and deal with the new normal winter which imo is just garbage weather.

[beowulf]

@sascha

No. I was definitely referring to 2 or 3 different types of snow traction, one of which is regular screw-in studs which I used for several years in lieu of (usually tiny) hammer ins or larger Borium (tungsten carbide) which is usually applied with a forge.

I see. I was only referring to boriums (called snow-studs here also), which is why I was initially confused. Glad you have a set-up that works for you, and hope Mother Nature cooperates enough we both get some good riding/skijoring weather.

(Feel ya on the bugs front too. You can’t win in the NE Every year I ask myself why the #$% I live where I do…)

[jvanrens]

@beowulf

Borium/snow studs are tungsten bits that you hammer into the shoe after it’s been set, but before it’s put on the horse.

Some are welded on too, though the hammered on ones are getting more popular now around here.

[McGurk]

I was about to clarify that as well, Beowulf. Hunting horses in my part of the world tend to get borium studs mid-December and keep them through March.

I recently had a horse lose one stud; and the farrier had a devil of a time getting it back in while the shoe was on the horse.

They are mounted permanently in the shoe, and yes, horses are turned out in them. Probably risky in certain situations, but in an established, stable herd doesn’t seem to be an issue.

Whole different thing that the removable studs that jumpers and eventers use, no removing the studs and putting plugs in; no choosing which stud for which conditions, no losing your stud wrench.

Last week while hunting, one professional described the footing as “lethal”; I described it as “Crisco over concrete” - an inch of thawed mud over the top of frozen ground. Very, very happy to have borium studs.

[IPEsq]

Just here to say I’m an actual lawyer (licensed in 2 states and DC) and have a JD and LLM, and I braid dressage horses for extra cash during the summer. Helps a teeny bit with the vet bills and such. I’ve never been great at hunter braids despite trying to learn as a kid, even though that’s my discipline, and with the braided shortage, I’d like to get better at it.

I’m finding the breeding discussion interesting. I wouldn’t pick For Pleasure for one for the hunter book though. Unless DHH knees balance out the below average front end of a lot of his babies.