Dutch harness horse drama. Update major mare/ foal neglect Nov 2023 post 1782 Update Kate Shearer responds post 1930 Nov 25/23

[Virginia_Horse_Mom]

@Zlotych

Gelders and Harness are two separate breeding directions within KWPN. There may be some cross over , but it would be more common to see one of the Riding directions (Dressage and less common, Jumper) crossed to Gelders than a Harness horse.

Thank you for this post.

It seems like this American breeder is pretending her DHH mares are Gelders … and marketed the foals as such.

But that’s incorrect. DHH and Gelders horses are different. KWPN DHH can be QUITE different from Amish bred DHH. And with Gelders horses, there is a “type” registry managed by KWPN, and there is a newer smaller “Classic” registry that has different pedigree requirements with a breed preservation focus.

I don’t even have a KWPN registered horse… or a DHH… or a Gelders horse… but I know this. I’m seeing more than one DHH cross marketed as a KWPN to the riding/sport market in America recently. I honestly think a lot of the sellers are ignorant. DHH can be quite nice, but even the fully KWPN registered horses? They were not bred to the riding type standards. It’s disingenuous to market them as a riding type KWPN horse.

[DownYonder]

@Virginia_Horse_Mom

I’m seeing more than one DHH cross marketed as a KWPN to the riding/sport market in America recently. I honestly think a lot of the sellers are ignorant. DHH can be quite nice, but even the fully KWPN registered horses? They were not bred to the riding type standards. It’s disingenuous to market them as a riding type KWPN horse.

The buyers are also ignorant - they think KWPN always means Dutch Warmblood. Sellers either think the same or they KNOW there is a difference but try to put one over on an uneducated buyer by saying something like “He is registered with KWPN - you know, like (insert name of famous Dutch WB hunter or jumper).”

[Virginia_Horse_Mom]

Yes. Definitely.

It makes me twitch.

In my uneducated opinion, a KWPN registered DHH has been purposefully bred as a DRIVING horse. It might be a really nice DRIVING horse, it might be really beautiful and athletic, but comparing it to Nimmerdor’s dam (who was actually half TB) and grand dam? C’mon people. This is ridiculous. It’s not 1960 anymore. You are just trying to sell a DHH to someone who actually wants to buy a riding type KWPN sport horse.

And before anyone says it… yes… people should evaluate the horse in front of them because you can’t ride the papers. But there is a reason that registries involving breeding standards and goals and inspections of breeding stock exist. If the horse comes from 5 generations of DRIVING horses, it’s likely it’s best suited for DRIVING.

[smoofox]

@Night_Flight

@2DogsFarm

Just wandered over here & now I have to ask:
Is there a problem with Hackney Horse in the bloodlines?
They share a lot of traits with DHH & if KWPN approved the mare

She has also repeatedly said that several of these foals would make great hunters, which is very unlikely with that sort of movement.

Did I fall asleep at some point during the last decade or so… and miss the class about hunters now needing lots of hock and knee lift/action like a fancy harness horse? Instead of a smooth, “daisy cutter” trot etc.? Please advise!

[vxf111]

I have never seen her post a horse that looks like it will move or jump like a hunter to me. These days a hunter can move with more suspension than the daisy cutter days of old but flat is still what’s wanted. Flat with push, flat that covers ground, flat with power, but flat. Lots of knee and hock action and movement that trails out behind has and still is a nogo. And I am somewhat skeptical that a horse who trails out behind is going to have a spectacular jump, though none of the ones I’ve seen are in the jump chute or being ridden so I’ll reserve judgment on that for when they’re actually jumping. But none move like hunters. And the dams, based on conformation, are not what I’d choose to breed hunters. Nor really are the stallions. They’re mostly jumper type. Certainly there are some jumper stallions that make both hunters and jumpers but usually they make hunters when crossed with more hunter type mares and, as noted, that’s not what these mares are.

I find the mare choice puzzling. I’ve seen DHH that were better conformed than these mares. I’m not sure why these mares. Maybe color? I don’t know. I find the mares extremely unexciting and they tend to produce foals that are just as unexciting. The stallions do seem to improve a little, but the DHH type that comes through comes through pretty vividly. I do think there are nice DHHs and that there could be a market for crossing sport type stallions on nice DHH mares to make sport horses— but these aren’t particularly nice DHH mares. They look like the kind of horses the Amish breed and they produce foals that look about the same. Do any of the mares have any sort of performance record? Other than color I don’t really see what is appealing about the mares. They don’t overproduce their quality and the stallions don’t improve enough to make a difference. It’s very NOT breeding type to type and it shows. Even if the foals have some improved conformation from the sire they also all have some from the dam and it turns out to be a bit of a mishmash.

[Scribbler]

Well, I think the market has indeed passed judgement on Kate’s breeding program which is why she’s stuck with more yearlings and weanlings than she can afford to feed or have handled and trained. Hence sales videos of razzing unhandled yearlings around a turnout paddock.

[Kasheare]

I have sat back and watch you all post everything but the truth. First off Reba’s registered name is Hakuna Matata KG so try getting the entire lineage of the dam correct. Second the owner of the filly has sent pictures and avoided social media as she is not ok with what has happened. Third, I have never assaulted a single person in my life. The person that dumped beer, is on probation for a year(including no drinking thank you to those above who admitted he was drinking at horse and hound) and banned from more than 5 places I know of. I am banned from none. Fourth, I owe no one a dime. I have never had a problem paying any of my bills no matter how much you want to believe it. I am choosing to stop this because of the craziness of people like you all. I used to reval in the fact that I had haters, but at 36 I would rather just continue on in life without crazy people on coth attempting to degrade my entire life from education to footware choice. Its a whole bunch of crazy right here. Come on you should all be on the helgstrand debacle already lol! Yes I am doing a private auction in December with buyers that have already reached out to me and genuinely would like what I have. And I love that you think “razzling” is due to being unhandled. Unfortunately its due to being too friendly and quiet. Even got an update about how a trainer that has one of my coming 2yo has all the AO at the barn arguing over who gets to buy her. lol! I have told everyone that has one of my babies or has been to the farm etc to delete all their posts as no need for them to jump into the circus…including the owner of said filly in question! But that is fine. Scribbler soon I will be a memory of your past and you will find someone else to obsess over. I wish you the absolute very best in your keyboard warrior program! Its strong and I give you credit for it! Alas, if you cannot be good at anything else in life, you definitely get a medal for your amount of time on coth!

[ThreeWishes]

@Kasheare

I have sat back and watch you all post everything but the truth. First off Reba’s registered name is Hakuna Matata KG so try getting the entire lineage of the dam correct. Second the owner of the filly has sent pictures and avoided social media as she is not ok with what has happened. Third, I have never assaulted a single person in my life. The person that dumped beer, is on probation for a year(including no drinking thank you to those above who admitted he was drinking at horse and hound) and banned from more than 5 places I know of. I am banned from none. Fourth, I owe no one a dime. I have never had a problem paying any of my bills no matter how much you want to believe it. I am choosing to stop this because of the craziness of people like you all. I used to reval in the fact that I had haters, but at 36 I would rather just continue on in life without crazy people on coth attempting to degrade my entire life from education to footware choice. Its a whole bunch of crazy right here. Come on you should all be on the helgstrand debacle already lol! Yes I am doing a private auction in December with buyers that have already reached out to me and genuinely would like what I have. And I love that you think “razzling” is due to being unhandled. Unfortunately its due to being too friendly and quiet. Even got an update about how a trainer that has one of my coming 2yo has all the AO at the barn arguing over who gets to buy her. lol! I have told everyone that has one of my babies or has been to the farm etc to delete all their posts as no need for them to jump into the circus…including the owner of said filly in question! But that is fine. Scribbler soon I will be a memory of your past and you will find someone else to obsess over. I wish you the absolute very best in your keyboard warrior program! Its strong and I give you credit for it! Alas, if you cannot be good at anything else in life, you definitely get a medal for your amount of time on coth!

QFP

[Dr_Doolittle]

Torn between and

[Scribbler]

@Kasheare

I have sat back and watch you all post everything but the truth. First off Reba’s registered name is Hakuna Matata KG so try getting the entire lineage of the dam correct. Second the owner of the filly has sent pictures and avoided social media as she is not ok with what has happened. Third, I have never assaulted a single person in my life. The person that dumped beer, is on probation for a year(including no drinking thank you to those above who admitted he was drinking at horse and hound) and banned from more than 5 places I know of. I am banned from none. Fourth, I owe no one a dime. I have never had a problem paying any of my bills no matter how much you want to believe it. I am choosing to stop this because of the craziness of people like you all. I used to reval in the fact that I had haters, but at 36 I would rather just continue on in life without crazy people on coth attempting to degrade my entire life from education to footware choice. Its a whole bunch of crazy right here. Come on you should all be on the helgstrand debacle already lol! Yes I am doing a private auction in December with buyers that have already reached out to me and genuinely would like what I have. And I love that you think “razzling” is due to being unhandled. Unfortunately its due to being too friendly and quiet. Even got an update about how a trainer that has one of my coming 2yo has all the AO at the barn arguing over who gets to buy her. lol! I have told everyone that has one of my babies or has been to the farm etc to delete all their posts as no need for them to jump into the circus…including the owner of said filly in question! But that is fine. Scribbler soon I will be a memory of your past and you will find someone else to obsess over. I wish you the absolute very best in your keyboard warrior program! Its strong and I give you credit for it! Alas, if you cannot be good at anything else in life, you definitely get a medal for your amount of time on coth!

Qfp

[smoofox]

@Kasheare

I have sat back and watch you all post everything but the truth. First off Reba’s registered name is Hakuna Matata KG so try getting the entire lineage of the dam correct. Second the owner of the filly has sent pictures and avoided social media as she is not ok with what has happened. Third, I have never assaulted a single person in my life. The person that dumped beer, is on probation for a year(including no drinking thank you to those above who admitted he was drinking at horse and hound) and banned from more than 5 places I know of. I am banned from none. Fourth, I owe no one a dime. I have never had a problem paying any of my bills no matter how much you want to believe it. I am choosing to stop this because of the craziness of people like you all. I used to reval in the fact that I had haters, but at 36 I would rather just continue on in life without crazy people on coth attempting to degrade my entire life from education to footware choice. Its a whole bunch of crazy right here. Come on you should all be on the helgstrand debacle already lol! Yes I am doing a private auction in December with buyers that have already reached out to me and genuinely would like what I have. And I love that you think “razzling” is due to being unhandled. Unfortunately its due to being too friendly and quiet. Even got an update about how a trainer that has one of my coming 2yo has all the AO at the barn arguing over who gets to buy her. lol! I have told everyone that has one of my babies or has been to the farm etc to delete all their posts as no need for them to jump into the circus…including the owner of said filly in question! But that is fine. Scribbler soon I will be a memory of your past and you will find someone else to obsess over. I wish you the absolute very best in your keyboard warrior program! Its strong and I give you credit for it! Alas, if you cannot be good at anything else in life, you definitely get a medal for your amount of time on coth!

No keyboard warrior here - sorry! I have managed farms for over 30 years, foaled out many mares, raised many youngsters and not one has ever looked like those horses you are supposedly so proud of and yet cannot be arsed to care for properly. The irony of all this is that you earn $$$ braiding sleek, shiny horses in peak condition and yet somehow cannot see the skinny horses that languish under your “superlative” care.

First - where there is smoke, there is fire. Second - I see billowing clouds of smoke here that are just getting thicker and darker. Third - we have all watched you post everything but the truth on SM (not just here) as is made obvious by ever-changing tales, denials, accusations, protestations and LOLs.

None of us here are responsible for your actions and words.

[endlessclimb]

@Kasheare

Unfortunately its due to being too … quiet.

Yeah that’s what happens with malnourished animals.

[EventerAJ]

@endlessclimb

@Kasheare

Unfortunately its due to being too … quiet.

Yeah that’s what happens with malnourished animals.

FWIW, I have this problem too with my foals. I love taking action photos of them, but they are pretty much desensitized to everything and are always glued to people looking for attention. I try waving plastic bags, popping whips, etc to get distance from me but when it’s just me by myself I am usually unsuccessful! When I do enlist help, there is still no aggressive, threatening chasing.

In fact, sometimes the best way to get good movement photos/video is to tie a bag to a lunge whip, and go away from the horse. The curious, inquisitive youngster will actively chase and follow the bag, often with the head and neck stretched out, using its topline and body in an elastic manner. Much more pleasing than a tense, anxious, scared horse boinking around with stiff topline and tight tail. (I hope this tip helps others out there trying to get good movement videos! Curiosity is more attractive than fear.)

[smoofox]

Welcome to the forum, Tracygraci - but pray, tell us how you really feel…

[CuriosoJorge]

@2DogsFarm

if KWPN approved the mare

KWPN doesn’t “approve” mares for breeding in the yes/no sense like some other registries. There are certainly optional inspections and performance classes at the keurings (IBOP) but you can get papers based solely on pedigree.

[Tracygraci]

Hopefully the horse world will stand up to her

[Old_Mac_Donald]

Don’t you have horses to feed?

[Pocket_Rocket]

Well that was some opening salvo, @Tracygraci

If there’s any truth in any post of Kasheare’s let’s hope it’s the ‘getting out of horses’

If she’s truly not able to see the appalling condition of her animals, past and present, she needs out yesterday.

(Edited after seeing your first post removed by Mods)

[Moderator_1]

We removed a post to comply with our posting policies. Please avoid the gratuitous name calling and accusations of criminal behavior not based in public information.

[SLR]

Good thing you didn’t pass the bar, Kate. I refer to the conditions of Pre Trial Intervention program #3.
BTW this is from Marion County, FL public court records.