E-Scribing

[gailbyrd]

I want to thank everyone who’s replied and for those who may reply. It’s very important to me when scribing that I’m able to capture the judge’s thoughts and I try to do my best to make things as easy as possible for my judge. I just felt so inadequate with the e-scribing (although my judge seemed to think I did a good enough job) that I needed to hear from others. Training is the key and perhaps I can suggest this to our GMO who does want to continue with the system. Not that it’s a bad system, just as with everything, it takes a bit more work than the old fashion ways to make it work better than the old paper system

[atlatl]

@BigMama1

The learning curve is STEEP, and a lot of how it goes for the scribe will depend on the judge you have.

I literally had less than 5 minutes of training and was fine. Granted, decades of working on computers probably gave me an edge.

@BigMama1

While it is a HUGE advantage for the show organizers and competitors, my advice would be not to use it at a show until the organizing team, judges and scribes have had the opportunity to train with it for several hours using actual horses and riders doing full tests at different levels. And test rides on training day should include things like riders retiring, riders being eliminated, riders making errors that require deductions, and total system failure where the program or the device goes completely off line.

A full “training day” ain’t going to happen. It’s not rocket science. My 5 minutes of training covered all this stuff. Also, we had a help feature where we could send messages to the office for help.

@BigMama1

As the scribe, you are solely responsible for trouble shooting any problems so you need to be prepared to handle them, quickly, and you need to know how to enter WDs, eliminations, etc. correctly, because generally the scores are publicly available online the second you press “submit.”

Wow! This was not my experience at all.

@BigMama1

The program I’ve used involves writing on a tablet with a stylus, and the biggest challenge was writing fast enough while staying legible. Way harder for me than I had imagined. I would prefer a system that allows you type instead of writing with a stylus I think.

Yikes! That would suck big chunks! Yuck! The program I used was very like a spreadsheet, we typed and tabbed between movements. We also had an extra monitor with the entire test visible to both the judge and scribe.

@BigMama1

Communication with the judge ahead of time is essential. They need to keep their remarks BRIEF. I ask them to always include the movement number, along with the score and remark.

I’m curious, how do the judges respond to your requests? I typically ask the judge how they like to give comments and accommodate them.

@BigMama1

So when there is a complete system failure (and it’s a when, not if) I have a piece of paper and pen ready and immediately switch to just writing movement #, score and comments the old fashioned way. Then, when the system is back online, I enter and submit them electronically.

Not my experience. Literally have never had a system failure. And the show organizers supplied paper and pens as back up anyway.

Sorry your experience was so bad.

[atlatl]

@gailbyrd

I want to thank everyone who’s replied and for those who may reply. It’s very important to me when scribing that I’m able to capture the judge’s thoughts and I try to do my best to make things as easy as possible for my judge. I just felt so inadequate with the e-scribing (although my judge seemed to think I did a good enough job) that I needed to hear from others. Training is the key and perhaps I can suggest this to our GMO who does want to continue with the system. Not that it’s a bad system, just as with everything, it takes a bit more work than the old fashion ways to make it work better than the old paper system

Thanks for volunteering to scribe, it’s not easy and is critical to riders getting the feedback from the judge that they are paying for.

Something you said caught my attention, the bit about capturing the judge’s thoughts, scribes should be capturing exactly what the judge says, not what we believe them to be thinking. No translation allowed!

[atlatl]

@gailbyrd

I would also think for the big shows with top competitors the judges don’t have to say much as the riders pretty much know how their rides should score.

Hahaha! Yeah, because all top competitors always agree with the judge’s scores

[gailbyrd]

@atlatl

@gailbyrd

I want to thank everyone who’s replied and for those who may reply. It’s very important to me when scribing that I’m able to capture the judge’s thoughts and I try to do my best to make things as easy as possible for my judge. I just felt so inadequate with the e-scribing (although my judge seemed to think I did a good enough job) that I needed to hear from others. Training is the key and perhaps I can suggest this to our GMO who does want to continue with the system. Not that it’s a bad system, just as with everything, it takes a bit more work than the old fashion ways to make it work better than the old paper system

Thanks for volunteering to scribe, it’s not easy and is critical to riders getting the feedback from the judge that they are paying for.

Something you said caught my attention, the bit about capturing the judge’s thoughts, scribes should be capturing exactly what the judge says, not what we believe them to be thinking. No translation allowed!

Judges thoughts as in, what the judge says, not what they may be thinking but not saying

[dotneko]

The first time using this newer system, during an I-2 test, there was an error. - rider went to the wrong letter. There was already some comment on the movement prior to my realizing the competitor was going astray. When I said to the scribe there is in error, then the score, I heard some noises of frustration coming from the other side of the booth. Errors needed to be entered prior to any verbiage it appeared.
While scribe was convinced they could fix it, the test continued.
I scribed for myself for the remainder of the test. Luckily the rider was 2/3 of the way through.
Once done, they figured out how to fix it and we transcribed it all onto the etest.

Yes, practice tests with problems need to be run through.

[Janet]

My only experience with e-scribing was as TD at an unrecognized Horse Trial (at a facility that also runs multiple recognized Horse Trials).

Even though the dressage rings were right next to the office, and they had multiple hot spots, there were may problems with the scores not getting to the scorers.

But the biggest problem, from my perspective, was that the tests were mixed up. A rider made an inquiry because her test had an error (-2) with the comment “extra circle”. She showed me the (smartphone) video of her test, and, while I couldn’t really say if the scores and comments matched the video, there was definitely no “extra circle”.

I brought it to the judge’s and scribes attention (they were baffled). The scribe commented that, when scoring on paper, she always rights down a description of the horse and rider, which makes it easier to figure which number it is SUPPOSED to be. Then I had to go out to cross country.

When I came back to the office, they had finally figured it out, and the rider in question would have been better off not inquiring, because she ended up with a worse score.

Yes, this could have happened with paper scoring, but the e-scoring seemed to compound the problem.

[SusanO]

I haven’t scribed for a while and have not E-scribed. But I always thought if you E-scribe you should have phrases available that you could copy/paste:

Circle not round
Needs more:
impulsion
bend
difference in collection/ lengthening/ working gaits
Transition early
Transition late
Not at letter
Not straight
Irregular
Good rhythm
Horse tense

You get the gist. It would make scribing for the lower levels much easier.

[rothmpp]

@Janet

Yes, this could have happened with paper scoring, but the e-scoring seemed to compound the problem.

Honestly, this depends on the e-scoring system. For example - the horseshowoffice system (the one I most familiar with) has a box on the screen where you can put a bunch of info that will never appear on the test - the bridle number, a description of the horse and/or rider, etc…

It was put in place for reasons including what you have outlined. If the judge is having me type the further remarks - some of them will ring the bell long before they are done with the comments. I then don’t have much time to move onto the next ride and often will not get to see the bridle number before the rider enters the ring. Depending on the test, it could be 90% of the test the bridle number is on the opposite side of the horse from where I am sitting. Best I can do sometimes is comment, “black horse no socks” or “green jacket”

PSA riders - please think through which way you’re going to pass by the judge’s booth when choosing which side to put your number. It can be a bit of a guessing game to make sure the right rider is going around when the are long past H or M before their number becomes visible to the judge/scribe. It’s little things like that, that make your judge’s job easier.

[Janet]

I always put the number on the side that will be closest to the judge as I turn at C after the entrance. That may or may not be the side facing the judge as I go around the ring before the “bell” is rung.

[BigMama1]

@gailbyrd

One thing we did have at our show was a computer tech person who was troubling shooting AND if we had to go to paper, he could enter those scores into the system so the scribe didn’t have that to worry about.

That’s a great idea! Will suggest it to our show organizers.

[BigMama1]

@dotneko

correct count and changes clean, but horse much more supple left than right -

Most scribes - and particularly one trying to type or scribble this on a tablet with a stylus - would probably love this comment to read simply more supple left than right. I think all riders would assume they had the correct count and clean changes unless a comment from the judge tells them otherwise.

[BigMama1]

@atlatl

I’m curious, how do the judges respond to your requests? I typically ask the judge how they like to give comments and accommodate them.

It was their first time using the e-scribe system too, so we were all learning together, and they appreciated insight into what would make the process as smooth as possible and minimize delays. That being said, the judges were ones I already knew quite well. I wouldn’t have been comfortable making suggestions to a judge I’d never scribed for.

By the third day of the show everything seemed much easier, but the first day was pretty nerve wracking. I’m looking forward to trying some of the other other systems out there. Typing / tabbing between boxes sounds much faster and more user friendly.

[SadieRidingHorses]

@BigMama1

The program I’ve used involves writing on a tablet with a stylus, and the biggest challenge was writing fast enough while staying legible. Way harder for me than I had imagined. I would prefer a system that allows you type instead of writing with a stylus I think.

I’ve scribed using the same system, and 100 percent agree with this. Edited to add that my experience pretty much mirrored @BigMama1 - we must have been scribing with the same program!

[Mersidoats]

I got to scribe with the Black Horse One system. I LOVED it. But my job is computers and I type like a whirlwind. I didn’t bother to correct spelling. It was an adjustment for both me and the judge with the freestyles - lots of scrolling between the required movements. Some judges let me sign for them after they gave their final remarks, others wanted to sign for themselves.

The only time we had a bit of an oopsie-floopsie was when a competitor scratched at the last minute, and they didn’t pull her test from the system quickly enough - so I was scoring the wrong sheet for the first three movements! The sheet suddenly disappeared, I had a mini panic attack, but then the correct competitor’s test was brought up - I just had to quickly re-enter the three previous scores and comments. This system shows the whole test at once, so I could scroll back and forth, back up to make a change, and I could track which movement was next, just like with the paper tests.

Black Horse One gave us 30 minutes of training in the morning, and they were on site all day to help with any technical issues or questions. One of the judges I scribed for really loved the system because the judges can see each other’s scores at the end of the ride, and she liked to know how close she was scoring to the one at C (or E).

[BigMama1]

I’m curious to hear how hard / easy others found various systems to escribe freestyles.

[dotneko]

@BigMama1

@atlatl

I’m curious, how do the judges respond to your requests? I typically ask the judge how they like to give comments and accommodate them.

It was their first time using the e-scribe system too, so we were all learning together, and they appreciated insight into what would make the process as smooth as possible and minimize delays. That being said, the judges were ones I already knew quite well. I wouldn’t have been comfortable making suggestions to a judge I’d never scribed for.

By the third day of the show everything seemed much easier, but the first day was pretty nerve wracking. I’m looking forward to trying some of the other other systems out there. Typing / tabbing between boxes sounds much faster and more user friendly.

How did that work on the GP or GPS? I cant imagine glancing down to find movement number every single box and being able to observe, comment, and score the piaffe/passage tour. There is no way I could also name the box number without looking and there is no time.
I check in with my scribe every 5 movements or so. As in ‘box number 15’…

[rothmpp]

@BigMama1

It was their first time using the e-scribe system too, so we were all learning together, and they appreciated insight into what would make the process as smooth as possible and minimize delays. That being said, the judges were ones I already knew quite well. I wouldn’t have been comfortable making suggestions to a judge I’d never scribed for.

It’s tough if both the scribe and judge are brand new to e-scribing. I’ve done it for years so I often find myself assuring a judge who is brand new to a e-scribe system that it will be easier than they are imagining and it usually is. I will occasionally have to gently suggest that I cannot keep up if they are going to dictate a paragraph for every movement - not if they want the spelling to be somewhat accurate. I also scribe for a couple judges that like use very elaborate verbiage - half the time I think it is because we know each other well and they like to see just how far they can push it and have me keep up.

I don’t know about some of the systems, but the HSO one allows you, as the scribe, to change the order of the score vs comment box. It will print on the paper or electronic form that the rider gets like usual, but if I have a judge that likes to give the score before the comment I don’t have to tab backwards throughout the whole day.

@dotneko

How did that work on the GP or GPS? I cant imagine glancing down to find movement number every single box and being able to observe, comment, and score the piaffe/passage tour. There is no way I could also name the box number without looking and there is no time.
I check in with my scribe every 5 movements or so. As in ‘box number 15’…

I know it happens, but I’d hope the organizers would try to not give the brand new to the system scribe and judge the GP or god forbid the GPS as their first class, but it happens sometimes.

I actually prefer some of the upper level tests - the movements come quickly enough that most of the time the judges do not have an opportunity to get too wordy. The P&P tour comes to mind. I’ll often double back during the walk section to make sure I got full, properly spelled words in further up the test with a system that allows for scrolling.

One aspect of scribing that I think has suffered a bit from the e-scribe phenomenon is losing a whole slew of scribes that are not comfortable enough with the technology to even attempt to e-scribe. It’s not even so much the typing as it is if something goes haywire with the technology - which does happen occasionally. My own mother used to love to scribe, but would never attempt to e-scribe. I’ve heard the argument that it doesn’t take someone who knows dressage to be able to e-scribe, which is true. However, what saves me on occasion is that I know dressage well enough to know if the comment makes sense for what box I am in. “not square or still” on a mid-test halt does not make sense if I’m still on the extended trot box. Someone who can keep up typing and troubleshoot computer issues but does know dressage would never realize it until they had a box left over at the end of the test. And it’s not like you are transcribing recorded notes like a medical transcription tech where you can go back and listen to the section again. Dressage shows are scheduled so tight these days that having to spend several minutes untangling a mid-test mistake can have long-lasting issues with the schedule.

[BigMama1]

@dotneko

How did that work on the GP or GPS?

Luckily we only had total system failure / tests disappear during a Third Level test and a first level one.

Perhaps I should have been clearer. Asking the judge to state the number of each movement was only in case of a switch to pen and paper or other serious glitch, not for every movement of every test. The usual system of checking in every few minutes is totally sufficient when things are going well.

The need for brevity in the movement remarks stands whether there are technical issues or not. Comments at the end of the test are still written by the judge or scribed, and can be as detailed as the judge likes.

[Libby2563]

I just had my first e-scribing experience today. I am pretty tech savvy and expected to like it better. When everything was working it was okay, but not great. Writing with a stylus slows me down a lot (thank goodness my judge was concise) and apparently gives me the penmanship of a 5-year-old. Sometimes a character (i’s and commas especially) just wouldn’t show up. It’s also annoying to not be able to rest your hand on the screen without it going haywire.

Then we lost internet connection about 2/3rds of the way through the day and had to switch to paper, despite being only about 30 feet from the show office. One test before the failure, a weird dialogue box popped up saying “The judge at C has identified lameness”—which was pretty mystifying since we were at C. Then it seemed to be working fine again until it wouldn’t upload the next test. At the end of the day we had a bit of a fright when the show office asked if we had those two tests! They were able to find them somehow though.

The judge I was scribing for doesn’t care for the system and I have to say I agree based on this one experience. It’s fine if it all works but if it fails you end up scrambling, and there’s this constant underlying fear of losing data. It also seems tricky from the show office perspective, because if it does fail you suddenly need runners and scorers that you didn’t need 5 minutes ago.

As a rider it’s nice to get your scores so quickly and not have to pick up tests though!