Educate me: Simple change as a major fault in hunters

Hi friends! Coming to the masses with a question – an honest one, truly not looking to cause a heated debate just trying to understand the rules.

I was wondering if someone could shed insight on why it’s considered a major fault to do a simple change (which is penalized as breaking stride) but not a major fault to cross-canter or counter canter.

I understand why a late change would be a minor fault but not why a clean/effortless simple change would be penalized greater than cantering on the entirely wrong lead.

Thanks in advance!

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I’m not a judge, but as far as I know, a cross-canter and/or a counter canter for more than a stride or two is a pretty big score sucker. Mostly because 9/10 the canter/cross canter come from a missed lead change which is a major fault.

A simple change is exactly as you said, its a break of gate. Hunters are judged at an “even hunting pace”, therefore breaking to a trot is breaking the even pace, whether it looks better or not.

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Well. You might be getting a bit hung up on the somewhat archaic language of the major and minor fault. All these things are major faults these days. Key points though are:

  • The simple change is super easy to penalize with a “standard” (as in universally understood, not set in the rules) score, since it’s cut and dry. Trot= 55
    -The cross canter or wrong lead is open to subjective judgment. How long did it go on, how rough was the ultimate change if it happened at all, how ugly were things, was it just on the wrong lead or running flinging legs about with its head in the air? Regardless though unless we are talking about two uneventful late strides behind, you’re in the low 60’s.
    -Historically, if you’ve broken to a trot out hunting; you’re in the way, whereas if you’re on the wrong lead or cross cantering the only one who is uncomfortable is you.
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Both cross-cantering and counter-cantering ARE major faults. The cross-canter is a potential safety issue because of the disunity of stride and the counter-canter is at best a disobedience (if change attempted) or lack of rider understanding (if not) if done in rhythm, and at worst a safety issue because of lack of balance if it’s less a counter-canter than a careening around the ring on the wrong lead.

Nobody is winning at Harrisburg with any of them.

A short stirrup or novice equitation type rider who does a simple change is demonstrating level-appropriate skill and understanding; a cross-canter of two steps might be “credit for trying”; and the wrong lead for this group is probably “no attempt was made” and hopefully “good pony.”

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Ahhh this is super helpful – definitely can understand the cut and dry aspect versus something that’s significantly more subjective. That makes a lot of sense.

@Renn_aissance got it; it’s not explicitly stated in the rules (though “completely missing a lead change” is which I’m sure this qualifies as) which was part of my question, too. Candidly, I’m not really asking about these in the lens of a show as major as Harrisburg where I’d expect you’re not in the ring at all if you can’t get the correct lead or a flying change, but moreso your local ones or even an unrated class at a rated show. Your answer is super helpful in explaining the penalty breakdown, thank you!

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As the others have said, it’s a skilled request vs a break of gait or lack of effort or discombobulated effort. So from a short/long/rusty stirrup perspective, it’s usually not penalized. I think there’s also a baby green (2’6) or future green hunter (2’) where trotting in corners is allowed. AIthough, even if still allowed, the baby greens have become so competitive that I’m not sure if it’s still excusable or considered a markdown, or if you’d still pin high with a simple change vs some of the others that do changes but just peek a bit more.

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Yep, there are several divisions at the local shows here where “simple changes not to count” are in the prizelist. Usually either very green horse divisions, or very green rider. You might even see that in a few classes at bigger rated shows that run something like Mini-Stirrup or Super Baby Greens or similar.

At a smaller local show, honestly, I wouldn’t worry too much about it if you don’t have the change, often times the changes are so messy/late that at a 2’ PreChildrens trip, the tidy simple change will still place well, and give the horse the experience in the ring.

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Your mileage will vary there. Local shows generally judges tend to be more forgiving of a simple or skip change. The numerics go out the window when judging these classes unless you have a very competitive local circuit. If you’re being realistic the majority of the class is in the 60s, and everyone would prefer to pin the consistent round with the simples or the adds versus one with huge flaws of distance or pace or jumping style.
Unrated classes at rated shows are judged like rated classes at rated shows, unless you’re talking about short or long stirrup or something else specific where safety trumps all other considerations.

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I concur.

If the class specs say simple changes are allowed, that’s one thing. Otherwise, the classes are generally judged the same as any other class.

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Not that I show anymore but when I did do project horses and showed them…

A break of gait is a huge fault in hunters. Simply is what it is. On a green horse I schooled a nice balanced counter canter (which you need anyways if you ever want a good flying change). You’ll score better packaging and balancing that counter canter than you will breaking to trot. Make it look nice.
It will look like you’re taking the appropriate steps for your horses education level, and won’t get penalized as harshly.

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As others have mentioned, some of the local unrated shows will have in the class specs in lower divisions that simple changes not to count. I can see where this can be confusing for those just starting to show. One show you do a simple change and win the class, next show similar trip and you’re penalized for the simple change. Maybe I’m showing my age but not sure what happened to teaching lead landing…

IME classes that allow simple changes at the locals are pretty low level - really green horses or riders - or are catering to lesson horse types that are valuable for things other than their willingness to swap.

We(g) could rehash the tired discussions about whether low level classes are ruining showing, but I think there is no issue with allowing a simple change in the rules for these classes! Especially at local shows. I’d rather allow someone on a lesson pony to execute a safe simple change at 18" and be rewarded for that vs be out of the ribbons forever at unrated stuff. Just my opinion!

Landing a lead subtly and properly is a very valuable skill, and I wish it was taught more in the low jumper rings too. Smooth rounds win ribbons!

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I have a suggestion for anyone who has a hunter that is not a great changer. Look into the new UDJA shows (or whatever the acronym is). They have jumping classes at a low level that are judged on style. So not really a hunter class but still fun and you don’t need to go fast.

“Simple changes not penalized” is, at many shows, not as much of a benefit as you might think.

Just because a simple change is not penalized does not mean that a flying change is not rewarded. Mostly, IME, there will be some horses in the class that manage to get at least some of the flying changes and they will beat a horse who does nothing but simple changes - all other things being relatively equal, of course.

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That is how it should be.
Now, if the person who gets some of the flying lead changes, sometimes does not get any change at all (but is on the wrong lead), then the person having a tidy round of good simple changes should place above them in this type of class.

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Yes, of course that’s how it should be.

The fun comes in trying to explain that to a Horse Show Mom who doesn’t understand why her kid, who had a lovely round with all simple changes, got beat by a couple of horses with slightly less lovely rounds but who got all the flying changes when simple changes aren’t supposed to be penalized. :grinning:

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