I’m just expressing my opinion, we are still allowed to do that, yes? And I maintain very few could ride that movement. How many threads do we have here alone of people that can’t sit a normal trot, let alone something as flamboyant as that. I don’t know that I could sit that trot, and I can sit some big movement. I simply don’t like the horse’s movement, I still maintain that it’s manufactured. Someone at some point in the past had seen some videos from a few years ago, and noticed that his movement was nowhere NEAR as extravagant. And yes, I know, horses do change, but Totilas looks like a big lick TWH. Is that where dressage is heading? Weighted shoes, and chains on the ankles? Show me one, just one, other horse in the world that moves anything close to him. There’s no way it’s natural. I prefer much more natural looking gaits. But to each their own.
[QUOTE=ameripean;4560608]
Does anyone else get the impression that this horse is TIRED?
His tempo in piaffe and passage IMO was just not what it has been. A bit more gesturing with the head and neck, overall not the impressive stability he normally exhibits. Small picks, but there nonetheless.
He just looks like he needs a vacation…[/QUOTE]
To my very inexperienced eye, I agree. He just seems wound very tight, most of the time. The free walks were interesting, in that regard.
[QUOTE=dressurpferd01;4560665]
… Someone at some point in the past had seen some videos from a few years ago, and noticed that his movement was NEAR as extravagant. …[/QUOTE]
Did you mean not as extravagant? I actually liked the videos from a few years ago (even last year) much better.
[QUOTE=dressurpferd01;4560665]
I’m just expressing my opinion, we are still allowed to do that, yes? And I maintain very few could ride that movement. How many threads do we have here alone of people that can’t sit a normal trot, let alone something as flamboyant as that. I don’t know that I could sit that trot, and I can sit some big movement. I simply don’t like the horse’s movement, I still maintain that it’s manufactured. Someone at some point in the past had seen some videos from a few years ago, and noticed that his movement was NEAR as extravagant. And yes, I know, horses do change, but Totilas looks like a big lick TWH. Is that where dressage is heading? Weighted shoes, and chains on the ankles? Show me one, just one, other horse in the world that moves anything close to him. There’s no way it’s natural. I prefer much more natural looking gaits. But to each their own.[/QUOTE]
Has anyone said you couldn’t express your opinion, no? We are entitled to disagree with you. A few years ago he was a 6 year old horse and isn’t the goal to improve their god given talent. What are you implying when you say manufactured?
[QUOTE=quietann;4560671]
Did you mean not as extravagant? I actually liked the videos from a few years ago (even last year) much better.[/QUOTE]
Yes I did, sorry, fixed my post.
Ridgeback, no, no one is saying I can’t express my opinion, just don’t appreciate a dogpile when someone dares to say they don’t happen to like a certain horse. I’m implying that that is not his natural trot. That Gal and whoever he works with (Anky?) has somehow made him far more flamboyant than he normally would be. I don’t know how one would do that, except for TWH crap.
[QUOTE=dressurpferd01;4560697]
Yes I did, sorry, fixed my post.
Ridgeback, no, no one is saying I can’t express my opinion, just don’t appreciate a dogpile when someone dares to say they don’t happen to like a certain horse. I’m implying that that is not his natural trot. That Gal and whoever he works with (Anky?) has somehow made him far more flamboyant than he normally would be. I don’t know how one would do that, except for TWH crap.[/QUOTE]
I think you are interpreting a dog pile when it is simply many not agreeing with your view. May I ask at what level is your riding/training ability? I think this horse was born with this movement and they have improved or made more flamboyant whatever word you would use as a top level rider should. The videos you saw a few years ago would make the horse 6 years old and I’m sure he was not asked for much at that age and now they are asking more of the horse which would mean his movement is developing.
[QUOTE=dressurpferd01;4560697]
I don’t know how one would do that, except for TWH crap.[/QUOTE]
So if he is getting the horse to move that way through “TWH crap,” then loigically shouldn’t any moron with weighted shoes and chains be competing in upper-level dressage and winning?
Just because you don’t understand how a horse can move like that does not mean that it’s manufactured. Totilas could truly be a freak of nature. Or Gal knows a secret that no one else knows. But that would be why he is setting world records and we are not, right?
In this video, I saw a beautiful horse performing beautiful movements that are the definition of “excellent.” And even though I have been riding dressage for years, I have never ridden a Grand Prix horse, I do not train Grand Prix horses, I have never sat on a horse that even compares to Totilas, and therefore I don’t consider myself fit to polish Gal’s boots, much less critique his training techniques.
I am not a dressage rider but I have interested in dressage for many years, primarily of course, because of the Spanish school. As for what I would love to see optimally, just as there was a huge bitter fight between the aristocracy and those whose view of man and animal more clearly reflected that of the Renaissance. The fight had to do with the means of restraint and how to encourage the various movements of the haute ecole, ie. severe bits, spurs and whips, versus the beauty and natural flow of movement of the horse as an expression of the rider without interference. Implied and total obedience, with all of the power and beauty that a horse can express, controlled yet explosive. To me, while Totilas is a stunning animal and shows great expression and talent, I cannot stand the head tucked into the chest, the use of double bridles and the constant jab, jab, jab of the spurs. If the pinnacle and the highest expression of the dressage test is to express that beauty with total obedience, it is marred by that, and that is all I can say. I am not speaking about allowing horses to go bitless or bridleless but there has to be a happy medium That horse most likely has the capability to do all of that without the double bridle, and without the spurs. Someone please tell me how it proves obedience for a horse to willingly accept all of that restraint while being spurred on, he looks like an unhappy slave to me.
As far as his action, I do not like the height of the knees, as if he is a enlarged Hackney horse, and I do see what one poster is saying about the discrepancy between the action in the front at the extended trot, he is in supension at the height like he is in a passage and then he extends it more so on the left than right. I have not seen his earlier work but since the object seems to have so much collection that he looks like a coiled spring, I have to admire the horse even to get that much of an extension of his trot. And what a lovely walk and his facial expression when he is looking at the crowd after his hard work in the freestyle, I just love him for that look, “aren’t I a good boy”, my heart just melts.
As a disclaimer, this is not a Rolkur debate.
Is anyone familiar with Friedrich Schiller’s poem entitled ‘Pegasus Im Joche’?
Totilas at Olympia was better than ever. His test was seamless. Everyone thought (the riders who spoke about him) that he was better than at Windsor. The horses temperament is outstanding. When you see him live the harmony, elegance, balance & rhythm, and regularity of his paces is mesmerising.
For all those insisting the horse must be forced into his movement by weighted boots, chains, whatever grow up. The horse moved like this as a 1, 2 & 3 year old, unshod and unbroken.
I wonder if all this negativity about Totilas - movement, training, ability would apply if he was owned and / or ridden by a US rider? I hazard a guess at it would not, y’all would be singing his praises.
I really wish Edward Gal would lengthen his reins just a wee bit (nothing against his riding in general…he is a wonderful rider!), but the big white hands part way up the neck give the illusion that T has a stump of a neck and that he’s being held very tight…especially in his extended trots (which honestly shouldn’t score more than a 6). Overall very nice horse. VERY nice!
manufactured BL horses have a wonky free walk. I don’t see that in this horse.
The backend falls apart on manufactured gaits. Don’t see it here
don’t see an overdeveloped front end with a waspy backend- another BL issue.
maybe he IS tired- but the free walk and the walk out at the end- he’s a sound and sane horse- low kneed, normal walk- Screw up their walk with weights and chains and add excitement - they stay high-- therefore now TWH with OLD scars can’t be shown as nonpadded horses - b/c you put 'em in the pen to show them and turn on the lights- there go the knees.
All this OMG his gaits are like TWH Big Lick— just shows how little the accusers know of what that looks like.
This horse has a big front end, get over it!
and just to drive everyone out of their trees, here’s a natural speed racker with a big front end. and a bareback one armed bandit for a rider 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5HuEccBod-0
they are everywhere! LOL
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljshRNsx2fc
Ceffyl, that is just silly, his place of birth has nothing to do with this, or anyone’s discussion regarding the movement. Maybe the Netherlanders have more need for control though since they are such a small country, hmmm…never though of that angle.:lol:
HQ-Versions of the ride (one with Dutch comment and one with English comment at
Enjoy
http://www.topdressage.tv/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=386
For the ones who can’t enjoy :
Please follow this link VidCard 2
I watched it Live last night via the TV. He was brilliant, but I am not a Dressage rider so I can’t comment. The horse looked happy, rythmic, and smooth. It was a treat to be honest. I even posted a topic in Off Course as hubby watched it with me. Somewhat gumbly about having to watch Dressage, but he fell in love with Totilas so that can only be a good thing.
Terri
There is always someone who is angry that such a horse’s faults do not reduce his score more. The scoring is over and done when we see it and the score will not change, so the only real course of action is to have a mojito and relax.
I think Gal is being a little too simplistic when he says, ‘Oh he’s just so much natural talent, I just am a hitch hiker’. The rider influences how the horse goes. The major flaw that people are whining about so loudly, the exaggerated strides we see in the extended trot, the rider can either have that happen, or not have it happen.
I think those who are saying, ‘hey, shut up, he’s beautiful and it’s lovely’ are missing some faults in the performance. I think those who are screaming, ‘it is so horrible, it is so bad, everything is so wrong’, are ALSO seeing a distorted view.
In the extended trot the action of the foreleg is indeed exaggerated in an incorrect manner. I think it is not so much that the hind legs are doing NOTHING, but that the foreleg is doing too much.
See the leg come higher when the rider goes to make his transition down from time to time? Horse is hitting the bit while lifting the leg with shoulder muscle.
It seems to more flow, rather than lift, when it is correct. It can be a high gensture, and either be correct or incorrect.
I do not agree that a rider should position himself with his leg forward. I know the explanation for this being done, taking the lower leg off, and this is kind of the system he was taught, but I don’t think it is correct.
I also think that while Totilas is a compact horse, the neck is, indeed, held in a little too short.
But to freak out and start screaming that it’s so horrible, I think is a little…it’s a little odd. Those things are not the whole picture. I think many of the negative statements are ‘seeing what we want to see’, people want to find fault with this horse and rider because he is associated with Anky, they want to tear him apart.
But when we say things like, ‘The Dutch Need More Control’, we are getting way too excited, and way too emotionally involved.
In and of itself, lifting the feet, even a lot of lifting of the feet, bending knees and hocks, is not bad. The judging of dressage has always allowed for horses with different basic ways of going. Don’t go nuts because a warmblood does it instead of a Lipizanner. Don’t confuse an incorrect technical point in extended trot with the animal’s basic way of going.
The comments about TWH and Hackneys, that has been brought up many times. People who say those things are so proud of it and so convinced they are so right, no point in discussing any other aspect of it. It will not sink in.
I don’t agree that using the spur at each stride is abusive or a sign that we have fallen on a fresh form of evil times. A horse in a show is urged forward at every stride, this is normal. We can however look to see for OTHER related points, but using a spur at each stride, in and of itself, is not a failure.
The double bridle can be used too forcefully with the curb shank parallel to the mouth, or way back, that is just appearance and depends on the adjustment of the curb chain. It is in fact an old dealer’s trick to tighten up the curb chain so inexperienced people will watch just for where the curb shank is and think the horse is light mouthed.
They’re getting fooled.
Don’t be fooled into thinking that because the curb shank is forward, the use of it is ‘gentle’, either. That’s is just as much not true. The position of the curb shank signifies nothing except the length of the curb chain. It is more difficult than that to determine how the curb rein is being used.
I don’t think Totilas looked like a tired horse at all, but I watched ALL the horses go and not one performance. Also one of the announcers made repeated comments about the temp difference from the warm up area to the arena. Not saying it had anything to do with anything, but who knows. I think watching all the performances on the night gives you a tad more insight. I did see some horses which looked tired and lacked enthusiasm.
Terri
Here we go again SLC no one is telling anyone to shut up or yelling… Man you have a problem. I love all the arm chair trainers! If Gal said he’s a hitch hiker there probably some truth to it why do people have to claim they know what he thinks…SIGH
At the pressconference after the Freestyle to Music Carl Hester said Edward only have to point his horse the way. But I have to push mine that way. 
http://www.horseandcountry.tv/episode/edward-gal-masterclass
From Olympia
So when is SLC taking over as the USA CDQ?
[QUOTE=Equilibrium;4561057]
I don’t think Totilas looked like a tired horse at all, but I watched ALL the horses go and not one performance. Also one of the announcers made repeated comments about the temp difference from the warm up area to the arena. Not saying it had anything to do with anything, but who knows. I think watching all the performances on the night gives you a tad more insight. I did see some horses which looked tired and lacked enthusiasm.
Terri[/QUOTE]
I wasn’t comparing him to the other horses. I was comparing him to himself. His balance just didn’t seem quite as excellent as it normally does – as indicated by the tempo difference in piaffe and passage – and there were compensatory gestures of his head and neck in piaffe and passage that there are normally not. He just didn’t seem quite as strong as he normally does, and I attributed that to tiredness. Interesting about the temperature difference…could explain it, I suppose.
