Ahem DH
Calling people idiots is no way to get people to listen to you on here.
You dont know who you may be talking to. there are a number of very knowledgable horse folks on here. A sure way to get no response or negative response is to be crappy.
And this has become Waaay off topic. :no:
[QUOTE=Sannois;3188384]
HAve seen many put down, and a few of my own, and never experienced that.
I have seen one bad one, a pony but I know that can occur. the rearing up… hmm not ever.[/QUOTE]
Again…have you ever had a horse put down while pulling up during a race???
Again again…The reason the original post was made was to explain why there were three horse ambulances there along with a jockey ambulance, etc. Because they don’t want the fans to see a horse being put down or a violent reaction that may follow. Now, maybe for a big race like the KY Derby they would use a the tranq first, but at smaller tracks - the horses don’t just go down peacefully like they would on your farm.
Rerun all the 2008 contenders in 2009, one year older
There’s an alternative that doesn’t have the adverse financial impact.
Change the 2’s to 3, and the 3’s to 4, yes, but allow this 2008 crop of contenders to compete again in the same racing forums next year when they all are one year older, while the younger ones have that additional year to develop and move into the changed age window.
Nobody loses a dime.
Yes, there will be an asterisk in the record books because of the transitional year with a second bite at the apple, so to speak (except, in the Derby field, for Eight Belles). But the shift would make the future races different than the past, anyway.
(Maybe someone else has suggested this further on in the thread, or it could be an idea that has floated around in racing circles for years but is unknown to those of us who aren’t a part of that world. There are probably a raft of potential arguments against this, but in my ignorance I can’t think of any.)
[QUOTE=Sannois;3188392]
Calling people idiots is no way to get people to listen to you on here.
You dont know who you may be talking to. there are a number of very knowledgable horse folks on here. A sure way to get no response or negative response is to be crappy.
And this has become Waaay off topic. :no:[/QUOTE]
Using “hmm…” is no way to get respect when you’ve never stood beside one being put down on the track. And when you insinuate that I’m a liar you deserve to be called what you are.
There has to be something to it because the vet told be to run after the injection. He knew my horse was going to leap or flip and told me before it happened. It is possible that back then mid 80’s they used something different.
[QUOTE=harvestmoon;3188332]
I thought Big Brown was just bobbing up and down, still wanting to go. According to his trainer, he’s fine.
http://tcm.bloodhorse.com/article/45043.htm[/QUOTE]
BB did seem to take some off steps inspite of his bobbing. Yes, he is a horse full of P and V, and certainly barely seemed to be affected by his race.
Connections have alot at stake here - no criticism, just fact. Are they likely to let drop their horse might not be 100%?
Bad feet are bad feet - they can cause major problems down the line, and would appear to be genetically linked.
[QUOTE=Janet;3188209]
Apples and oranges and pears.
First, ml and cc are both measures of volume, so 1ml=1cc always.
But grams are a measure of mass. 1cc of WATER= 1g of WATER. But that ONLY applies to water. For other substances, it depends on the density.
Second, when referring to equine medication, we ususally use “grams” to refer to “grams of active ingredient”, but we use cc’s to measure what we put in the syringe, wich is a mixture of active and inactive ingredients.
So a 10cc in injection of bute contains a LOT less than 10 grams of active ingredient.[/QUOTE]
A note from having a child in the hospital for 5 months, I learned a lot about meds. There are certain abbreviations that are allowable so there is no confusion about meds/dosage. In nurse’s/dr’s notes they are no longer allowed to use “ccs” because in handwriting the 2 “c’s” could be construed as zeroes. The have to use mls. It’s clearer, I guess.
As for active ingredient, when giving the baby’s meds, lay people are used to just saying what size the pill or how much liquid, but I learned that I had to know how many ml/… so they know how much meds he actually gets.
Rest In Peace Eight Belles–NICE Filly…I’ve been thinking about this all day and it’s just making me sick, really sick:(
Bless that filly’s heart… :sadsmile:
We were watching this at dinner at a restaurant, no sound. How terrible to see what was going on and not be able to hear. Wasn’t until I got home later and heard the news. Poor baby. 
I’m happy for BB and his crew but I don’t know if I could celebrate with that unfortunate event going on.
I hadn’t thought of the worst case scenario being that – to me what would have been worse would have been for this to happen early in the race when they were all packed so tightly trying to get onto the rail. Had she gone down then I believe we’d be talking about many catastrophic injuries, to horses and jockeys.
RIP, Eight Belles.
Well, bless your heart, Dick. You’ve gone from ‘everybody’ in a particular hunt to one couple. You should know by now there are idiots in every discipline. That doesn’t make the particular discipline cruel or abusive.
The rest of your posts in this thread nicely illustrate the point that the clueless are free to post misinformation on the internet. They also serve to lower your credibility even further.
[QUOTE=gray17htb;3188479]
Rest In Peace Eight Belles–NICE Filly…I’ve been thinking about this all day and it’s just making me sick, really sick:([/QUOTE]
Good God! yes, SICK is a word that comes to mind. . .I just saw the footage on YouTube 
[QUOTE=DickHertz;3188283]
I’ve seen it as a bettor and standing next to one. The vet says “now after I give the second shot, the horse will rear then flip over.”[/QUOTE]
I’ve seen two horses euthanized in my life and neither reared up and flipped over…they both dropped to their knees after the sedative and went peacefully.
I’m just sick over this entire scenerio…I, for one, just can’t watch it anymore…too emotional for me.
back to Eb, it’s heartbreaking, i rarely watch racing anymore and haven’t been to the track in a decade, i can’t watch this sort of tragedy anymore, count me among the folks who find it horrifying
and i hate that i don’t watch racing anymore, because when i think of a horse i think of a tb galloping flat out, there’s nothing more beautiful to me
i didn’t watch yesterday, i saw clips on the news, how sad for the filly
California had a bunch of breakdowns last year and the year before, so the Cal Racing authorities mandated that all Cal tracks be converted to synthetic and it is currently happening.
Santa Anita, with synthetic, was a disaster area this spring, as the track owners hadn’t been willing to put enough money into preparation before the installation of the new stuff, and the drainage didn’t work.
Back in the early days of racing in the mid 1800s, races consisted of 4 mile heats. A horse had to win multiple heats to actually be the race winner. This was true in the US AND in Europe.
As we have lessened the stamina requirements and gone from almost exclusively turf to almost exclusively dirt sprints, breeders may have changed their emphasis from longevity on the race course to precocious speed and straight to the breeding shed for classics winners, many of whom seem to barely survive the three triple crown races.
As I said in an earlier post, the breeder should never had put that particular mare to that particular sire if s/he cared about producing a sound animal. The odds against it were very high.
Sorry Dick call me an idiot BUT you are talking to someone who was a groom at Belmont, Aqueduct, Tampa, and Saratoga. Countless races and workouts and that was NOT how it was done nor were there any reactions such as you describe. At Belmont and Saratoga they brought out several large screens that they would put up around the horse so the spectators could not see what was taking place. I can’t speak for the backwoods “bush” tracks, maybe that is where you were doing your “BETTING”…perhaps had a few cocktails while making those bets??
[QUOTE=prudence;3188069]
A rescue ranch’s point of view on Saturday’s events:
He seems pretty off base with this comment:
"On our ranch if I rode a horse into the ground, whipping and whipping until the horse broke both front ankles, I would be arrested. Jail time. 3 meals and an old National Geographic. Cathy could come see me every Sunday.
At the race track you can ride a horse into the ground and the camera shows her lying dead on the track. No one is arrested. Legalized animal abuse."
Yes, he would be put in jail for that…but that isn’t what happened to Eight Belles. When she broke down she wasn’t being whipped, it was actually as she was being pulled up.
Excuse me,but the filly was lying on the ground with 2 broken front ankles. i seriously doubt she reared up and flipped over.
I know horses can have violent reactions to the stopping of the heart if not sedated first ,and perhaps she was not sedated ,but really She was flat out.No rearing was going to happen.
i have assisted with 3 horses being PTS ( not on track) and they were sedated first ,and laid down as if having surgery. They were under heavy sedation when the lethal injection was gien ,and they passed quitely.
I am not sure what the point is ,really ,except I am glad she was put down very quickly,so her suffering was minimal.
They weren’t blocking the view so people wouldn’t see her reacting to the euthanasia, they blocked the view of her getting into the ambulance. That is hard for anyone to witness.
Interestingly enough, at British steeplechases, thanks to the AR people, there are mandated numbers of times a horse can be whipped in a race and where on the horse the jock can use the whip. These rules are enforced by suspending a jockey who doesn’t whip properly for a period of time. The RSPCA has representatives at the major race meets, and at Aintree and Cheltenham this year the rep pitched a fit and threatened to require the jocks to attend an “educational” meeting on the subject if they didn’t use the whip according to the rules.
A couple of the winning jocks got caught and set down for the meet the next year.
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