Eight Belles

[txladybug]

I am sure this is a stupid question. I don’t follow racing enough to understand the history and rules of the fancy. It may have been covered already but I read three pages of “OMG I am crying my eyes out” and just went to the last page.

Why exactly do race horses have to be so young? Why can’t they just let them grow up to be at least four or five before they are raced?

Call me an idiot, I don’t get it.

The sport is wonderful, I just don’t get pushing babies so hard and I would love to understand this better.

[Madeline]

@sing;3190062

Madeline, the jockeys themselves don’t weigh 121 or 126.

And why would how much the jockeys weigh matter? What counts is how much weight ( including the jockey and the saddle) the horse carries…

[MSP]

[QUOTE=txladybug;3190073]
I am sure this is a stupid question. I don’t follow racing enough to understand the history and rules of the fancy. It may have been covered already but I read three pages of “OMG I am crying my eyes out” and just went to the last page.

Why exactly do race horses have to be so young? Why can’t they just let them grow up to be at least four or five before they are raced?

Call me an idiot, I don’t get it.

The sport is wonderful, I just don’t get pushing babies so hard and I would love to understand this better.[/QUOTE]

MONEY! Faster you get them to the track the sooner you start making money.

[riverbell93]

So sad. I was rooting for the filly, and then to see her down like that at the end of the race was terrible.

[Twomanydawgs]

The weight I was referring to was the trainer…the guy she had to carry every day…I don’t know where you ppl. come from but at the tracks I worked at any exercise rider I knew did not weigh over 170 and that was heavy. They are usually ex jocks, small girls,etc… They certainly don’t come close to weighing what that fillies trainer weighs not to mention how tall he is. He has to be all of 6’. It was just an observation…I know I had to look twice when they interviewed the guy out on the track riding the filly…I was shocked at how big he was. NEVER EVER saw that big a guy exercising.

[animaldoc]

RIP Eight Belles

Godspeed- at least she’s in a place where she can gallop to her heart’s content now…

What a terrible tragedy.

[system]

[QUOTE=Twomanydawgs;3188965]
Sorry Dick call me an idiot BUT you are talking to someone who was a groom at Belmont, Aqueduct, Tampa, and Saratoga. Countless races and workouts and that was NOT how it was done nor were there any reactions such as you describe. At Belmont and Saratoga they brought out several large screens that they would put up around the horse so the spectators could not see what was taking place. I can’t speak for the backwoods “bush” tracks, maybe that is where you were doing your “BETTING”…perhaps had a few cocktails while making those bets??[/QUOTE]

I’ve seen several who rear up and flip over and several who go right down. I think the difference is whether the horse is given a sedative or not. I do know at Charles Town they don’t give the sedative which is probably what Dick witnessed. I know in New York and Maryland they give the sedative first. Perhaps Dick should have clarified in his original post that his experiences were limited to one or two places??? They do pull a lot of vehicles around anytime there is a breakdown. I guess they just don’t want anyone to see anything, whether it’s a violent reaction or not or just seeing the horse’s body being put in the horse ambulance.

[Dispatcher]

I recall that Smarty Jones’ exercise rider was 185 pounds, or thereabouts.

[system]

[QUOTE=Dispatcher;3190330]
I recall that Smarty Jones’ exercise rider was 185 pounds, or thereabouts.[/QUOTE]

Smarty was a nicely built and pretty compact colt, though. This filly was still growing (I think she was 3 inches taller than Smarty when each ran in the Derby) and there’s no way her bones were strong enough for the rigors of a 200 lb man at pretty strong speeds. Although, I don’t think he breezed her - only gallops. Correct me if I’m wrong.

[horselips]

@Twomanydawgs;3190220

The weight I was referring to was the trainer…the guy she had to carry every day…I don’t know where you ppl. come from but at the tracks I worked at any exercise rider I knew did not weigh over 170 and that was heavy. They are usually ex jocks, small girls,etc… They certainly don’t come close to weighing what that fillies trainer weighs not to mention how tall he is. He has to be all of 6’. It was just an observation…I know I had to look twice when they interviewed the guy out on the track riding the filly…I was shocked at how big he was. NEVER EVER saw that big a guy exercising.

That was my point exactly.

[system]

I found some statistics when writing my blog this morning that sadly show this is not as isolated an incident as some think. I am glad I didn’t see the Derby. I got busy at my barn and lost track of time.

[2_tbs]

@Madeline;3189865

You know, when you make such a stunning error of fact it really reduces the weight your other comments may carry. 3 year old Colts carry 126. Fillies 121 in non-handicap stakes races. Basic knowledge of racing.

Well excuse me! I didn’t claim to KNOW what they weighed…I said they weighed “what, 116” as in something around that weight. Plus, I made no comment about the final weight being made to carry so my comment still stands that it’s best to train a horse with a heavier rider than to put a munchkin on it for breezing then weight it down on race day which would certainly cause more issues.

[Auventera_Two]

@vineyridge;3189049

Interestingly enough, at British steeplechases, thanks to the AR people, there are mandated numbers of times a horse can be whipped in a race and where on the horse the jock can use the whip. These rules are enforced by suspending a jockey who doesn’t whip properly for a period of time. The RSPCA has representatives at the major race meets, and at Aintree and Cheltenham this year the rep pitched a fit and threatened to require the jocks to attend an “educational” meeting on the subject if they didn’t use the whip according to the rules.

A couple of the winning jocks got caught and set down for the meet the next year.

I remember reading an article on race horse whipping and it said the horse is actually “fanned” and not hit with the stick. I guess I believed it at the time, and since there are never any REALLY close up video angles, I have never been able to see if the horse is fanned or whipped.

Info anybody?

But then Big Brown’s jockey was talking about “spanking” him so I assume the horses ARE hit? I don’t know. All I know is that if on national television we talked about spaking our kids to make sure they do good in that spelling bee, or spanking our kids to make sure they win that soccer game, we’d be nailed for child abuse. But it’s okay to spank a horse to make it run? Hmmm.

Maybe we need to get away from these frighteningly fast tracks and horses, and get back to focusing more on stamina. I do believe runners love to run. It’s in their blood and heart. But maybe instead of breeding and spanking horses to get 45 mph, maybe if we settle for 30, but award the horses who do it year after year, or who can win 2 or 3 races in a day - we’d be better off.

I hate to keep going back to the endurance horse thing but seriously, many endurance horses have thousands and thousands and miles to their name, and they do a lot of galloping also. I have NEVER heard about breakdowns in the endurance racing like their is in flat track racing. Endurance horses go 50-100 miles in a single race. That’s more miles than a lot of flat track racers acrue in a lifetime. :eek: And there are a LOT of endurance horses still racing into their teens and 20s.

So maybe if the flat track racers can come to a compromise and decrease the speed and put more emphasis on longevity??? AGain, I don’t know. Just musing out loud.

I hate horse racing and rarely watch it. If it weren’t for my dad yelling from the tv “Hey, come here, there’s a horse with 2 broken ankles in the kentucky derby!” I wouldn’t have even known it was derby weekend.

[lcw579]

My take on the whole whip thing has always been that when your knees are up to your ears it is hard to “add leg” to tell the horse that it is time to make his move - hence the need for the wave or tap with the whip to give the horse the go ahead. You also can’t use your leg to move the horse on or off the rail - so the whip may again need to come into play.

I may be completely off base - so please correct me if I’m wrong - but I never thought it looked like any of these horses were being beaten down the backstretch.

[2_tbs]

They do hit the horses, lets not pretend they don’t. But. It’s not beating. They hit, wave, hit, wave…some jocks have even mentioned a pattern they follow.

And yes, there is no leg which is often why a jock will switch whip hands-change of lead may need some additional encouragement , a little movement to the left or right for one that bulges one way or the other etc. Speed is part of it but it’s more to keep the horse engaged in most cases. Plus, a jocks stick usually has quite the “twapper” on it so more often than not it’s the sound not so much the touch that sends them forward.

I’ve been to some tracks where the use is questionable, as in excessive, and I’ve seen a jock get questioned about “putting it away”. The jock simply told the trainer/owner the horse was done. He explained the horse pulled up at one point and just never gave after a little (or a lot) of encouragement. The trainer/owner thanked him for his input then discussed with each other what to do with the poor pony as he obviously didn’t want to run anymore.

I know when I hit my pony he “laughs” at me. It’s almost as if he says “I heard so much louder on the track…you want a reaction you better try harder” :rolleyes: brat :winkgrin: Touching him with it has no effect what-so-ever. If I use a longer thinner stick-yeah, that sorta gets him moving and going :eek:. He’s just seen a normal sized stick so often that it’s has become part of his gear. A lunge or dressage whip seems like a weapon of sheer torture apparently

[Freebird]

@Auventera Two;3190624

Maybe we need to get away from these frighteningly fast tracks and horses, and get back to focusing more on stamina. I do believe runners love to run. It’s in their blood and heart. But maybe instead of breeding and spanking horses to get 45 mph maybe if we settle for 30, but award the horses who do it year after year, or who can win 2 or 3 races in a day - we’d be better off.

Not trying to split hairs here, but for a horse to go 45 MPH (the entire race) it would have to run the Kentucky Derby in 100 seconds - I believe Secrateriat ran it in 119.

As for if racehorses are “spanked” yes they are…as are Eventers, Hunters, Jumpers, barrel racers, etc, etc. There are rules in racing that limit the amount of times a horse is hit, and while the whip can encourage a horse, jockeys know that when a horse is finished, it doesn’t matter how many times you spank them with a whip, and anyway, if you have ever been on a horse who has ran through a track rail, while breezing, you know the whip is used more as a safety tool then anything else.

[Dispatcher]

Have there been any comments from Eight Belles jockey? I haven’t seen any, but then I may have missed them.

[MSP]

[QUOTE=Auventera Two;3190624]
I remember reading an article on race horse whipping and it said the horse is actually “fanned” and not hit with the stick. I guess I believed it at the time, and since there are never any REALLY close up video angles, I have never been able to see if the horse is fanned or whipped.

Info anybody?

But then Big Brown’s jockey was talking about “spanking” him so I assume the horses ARE hit? I don’t know. All I know is that if on national television we talked about spaking our kids to make sure they do good in that spelling bee, or spanking our kids to make sure they win that soccer game, we’d be nailed for child abuse. But it’s okay to spank a horse to make it run? Hmmm.

Maybe we need to get away from these frighteningly fast tracks and horses, and get back to focusing more on stamina. I do believe runners love to run. It’s in their blood and heart. But maybe instead of breeding and spanking horses to get 45 mph, maybe if we settle for 30, but award the horses who do it year after year, or who can win 2 or 3 races in a day - we’d be better off.

I hate to keep going back to the endurance horse thing but seriously, many endurance horses have thousands and thousands and miles to their name, and they do a lot of galloping also. I have NEVER heard about breakdowns in the endurance racing like their is in flat track racing. Endurance horses go 50-100 miles in a single race. That’s more miles than a lot of flat track racers acrue in a lifetime. :eek: And there are a LOT of endurance horses still racing into their teens and 20s.

So maybe if the flat track racers can come to a compromise and decrease the speed and put more emphasis on longevity??? Again, I don’t know. Just musing out loud.

I hate horse racing and rarely watch it. If it weren’t for my dad yelling from the tv “Hey, come here, there’s a horse with 2 broken ankles in the kentucky derby!” I wouldn’t have even known it was derby weekend.[/QUOTE]

You should be happy if the crop is the only thing being used on the horse. The buzzer was always the big controversy when I was on the track, well that and drugs.

I ride with a dressage whip every ride, I don’t see why a whip would or should be an issue! As others have mentioned sometimes its a wave and sometimes they need to feel it.

Google buzzer in racing and you will find stuff like this http://cangamble.blogspot.com/2008/04/how-widespread-is-buzzer-use-in-horse.html what a video never saw that one before! Pat Day too, I must have slept through that one. :winkgrin:

[imaequiholic]

I don’t know if this has been posted:

http://getactive.peta.org/campaign/eight_belles

I know some will agree with it and some will not. Just thought I would give the option to those who agree to sign. I thought they had some good points that many people have mentioned already.

[Beverley]

Comment from Andrew Beyer, today’s Washington Post

Excerpt from the article at www.washingtonpost.com

"As someone who loves the game, I would like to defend racing by explaining that such breakdowns are not an everyday occurrence. I could argue that racing has been terribly unlucky that so many catastrophic events have occurred in high-profile races seen by a nationwide television audience. The sport is not inhumane. It is not brutal. It is not barbaric.
But Eight Belles was a tragic manifestation of a problem that is more pronounced every year. America’s breeding industry is producing increasingly fragile thoroughbreds. They may not break down, but they have shorter and shorter racing careers before going to stud to beget even more fragile offspring.
The facts are irrefutable. In 1960, the average U.S. racehorse made 11.3 starts per year. The number has fallen almost every year, and now the average U.S. thoroughbred races a mere 6.3 times per year. Almost every trainer whose career spans the decades will acknowledge that thoroughbreds aren’t as robust as they used to be. "