My local paper yesterday quoted the jockey as saying that while galloping out, she suddenly started to wobble, and as he tried to pull her up, she collapsed.
And (unrelated to this q and a) the PETA stuff is just nonsense. Would people please stop giving this outfit free publicity? They are idiots, and account for far more animal deaths every year, to further their political agenda, than horse racing or any other sport you’d care to name.
[QUOTE=Kenike;3187181]
Yes, it was taken after she got back up, before she went back down and was shown lying on the track.[/QUOTE]
Where is there a photo of her back up?
So not much coming form The jockey.
Beverly, I agree with your comments on the PETA stuff. And for god’s sakes folks–don’t put it on the Racing Forum–we LIKE racing over here. Plus the fact that what PETA is saying about the race is total BS.
Just read the whole thread . . .
lots of different perspectives, lots to think about. I love racing, I love thoroughbreds - there’s not a creature on this earth, in my humble opinion, that can match their grace or their heart - give them a task and they will rise to the challenge. I’ll keep watching because I can’t stay away - like a moth to a flame . . . RIP Eight Belles . . .
SAME TRAINER!!!..
This might have already been addressed, and if so im sorry, But I heard on the radio this AM that Barbaro and Eight belles had the same trainer?. any truth to that, and what is the odds of one trainer have 2 horses break down at the 2 most popular races…? just a thought. i dont follow racing so didnt know how much truth was to that and thought i would ask the experts! 
and … well i cant say much more than wat everyone eles has said about how sorry i am with what happend…
It was not the same trainer.
Barbaro was trained by Michael Matz.
You might be thinking of Chelokee, who was trained by Michael Matz, the trainer of Barbaro:
<<Veterinary Dr. Larry Bramlage reported this morning that the prognosis for Chelokee, the horse injured in Friday’s running of the Alysheba stakes at Churchill Downs, was far more optimistic than it had been in the immediate aftermath.
Chelokee, trained by Michael Matz, who also conditioned ill-fated Derby winner Barbaro, fractured bones in his right front ankle at the start of the stretch run. The colt was shipped to the Rood & Riddle Clinic in Lexington.
Bramlage said that Chelokee was “doing well.” That veterinarians had changed the cast on the injury earlier this morning after early swelling in the area had subsided somewhat. The injury is career-ending and, while there is still concern regarding possible complications, there is hope Chelokee will be saved to embark on a career at stud.>>
[QUOTE=Lora;3190979]
Where is there a photo of her back up?[/QUOTE]
If you go back thru this thread, there is a link, with a note warning that it’s graphic. News outlets don’t seem to have any problem showing this nasty pic. I’ve seen it all over the place.
I just picked up the May '08 Equus ,there is actually a really good article that pertains to this very topic.It does however, include other equine sports such as reining ,polo ,eventing, and jumping.Worth the read.
Does anyone have a link to the Eight Belles spot they played a little before the race started? The one where they had a mic on Larry and he’s telling her to pull up whenever she wants to? I didn’t get to see most of it, I changed channels back right at the end of it. I would love to see the whole thing, but all I’m getting is the tragic videos when I look.
Also, anyone who thinks that the trainers don’t care about these horses and that it’s all about money should watch the video linked earlier with Larry Jones. If you can watch that and say that the man should be punished because he doesn’t care I don’t know what to say.
In England, they don’t race horses as young as they do here and the
horses seem to hold up better and have longer careers.
I understand that the young TB horses are tested to see if the bones
in their ankles I think, have fused together. If they have then they
are considered fit to race. However, the test only needs to be done
on one leg. And it is possible that the bones in the other legs have not
properly fused together which might cause the injury Belles suffered.
Does anyone know any more about this test and why it isn’t done
on all 4 legs?
" Hellooooo-Larry to Eight Belles- PULL UP!"
-LOVE IT!
Oh that filly was something.
I think this thread has gotten very caught up in what happened and why it happened, what might’ve happened, what could’ve been, who did what, and who didnt do what right.
I think we’ve all forgot to think about just how tremedous this filly was, regardless of her flaws.Whether or not she should’ve been run against those big bad boys or not-she DID IT! and she did it with the most heart, determination and courage i have seen in a horse in a long time. She proved many wrong and she let the dreams of a jockey, a trainer, and an owner-LIVE. She took these wonderful people in her life on the ride of a lifetime and gave them perhaps one of the biggest thrills in the sport-and she gave the ultimate price for it.
Its not that she didnt want to do it, or that she was hurting doing it. for crying out loud if that filly didnt want to run that race for all it was worth-she would’ve been in the back of the pack. We’re all to caught up in blaming someone or something for what happened whether it be the racing industry, the trainers habbits, the jockey, etc. if people dont have someone or something to blame they’re just not happy.
Instead of sitting here and bickering about all the what if’s and what could’ve beens and who to blame comments- lets rejoice in the wonderful talent and splendor this filly had and how much she was truly loved. The bottom line is it shouldnt have happened, it was a freak thing, and its extremely heartwrentching but these incidents are what open the can for change. So lets all be happy for this filly and her connections for all they accomplished in such a short lifespan and support them (both human and horse alike) for what they have shown us over the past few days.
This is on the front page of msn.com
http://msn.foxsports.com/horseracing/story/8105724?MSNHPHCP>1=39002
[QUOTE=La Gringa;3191832]
This is on the front page of msn.com
http://msn.foxsports.com/horseracing/story/8105724?MSNHPHCP>1=39002[/QUOTE]
wow- great write-up and quite true…I think we ALL need to fix that and the draw the line somewhere- and it better be somewhere consistent - where if we breed we also protect life- otherwise- what are we then? Nothing we profess to be and nothing even our constitution leads you to believe…
On the other hand- there are race horse breeders out there that do this to proove that their lines are superior- faster- better and I think we should go back to that and see by way of measuring and using scientific methods to see which horse is fast - has heart -but also is built to do the job…may that be at 3 or 4- but it needs to get better organized…
[QUOTE=farmgirl88;3191749]
" Hellooooo-Larry to Eight Belles- PULL UP!"
-LOVE IT!
Oh that filly was something.
I think this thread has gotten very caught up in what happened and why it happened, what might’ve happened, what could’ve been, who did what, and who didnt do what right.
I think we’ve all forgot to think about just how tremedous this filly was, regardless of her flaws.Whether or not she should’ve been run against those big bad boys or not-she DID IT! and she did it with the most heart, determination and courage i have seen in a horse in a long time. She proved many wrong and she let the dreams of a jockey, a trainer, and an owner-LIVE. She took these wonderful people in her life on the ride of a lifetime and gave them perhaps one of the biggest thrills in the sport-and she gave the ultimate price for it.
Its not that she didnt want to do it, or that she was hurting doing it. for crying out loud if that filly didnt want to run that race for all it was worth-she would’ve been in the back of the pack. We’re all to caught up in blaming someone or something for what happened whether it be the racing industry, the trainers habbits, the jockey, etc. if people dont have someone or something to blame they’re just not happy.
Instead of sitting here and bickering about all the what if’s and what could’ve beens and who to blame comments- lets rejoice in the wonderful talent and splendor this filly had and how much she was truly loved. The bottom line is it shouldnt have happened, it was a freak thing, and its extremely heartwrentching but these incidents are what open the can for change. So lets all be happy for this filly and her connections for all they accomplished in such a short lifespan and support them (both human and horse alike) for what they have shown us over the past few days.[/QUOTE]
Very well put farmgirl88, thank you.
This page link to the Louisville Courier-Journal has video of her last week including Cindy Jones giving her a wash down and Larry riding her as he does all his horses - from 2007 Kentucky Derby runner up Hard Spun to 2008 Kentucky Oaks winner Proud Spell.
However it is incorrect to say Larry (and yes he’s around the 200-lb mark) is THE exercise rider for his 20 or so horses under his training control. Rather his outfit does has “typical” exercise riders like Marsha Barrs. However Larry does put in a ride his horses to better understand their development.
Eight Belles on YouTube
Someone on the New Rider BB posted this link to a lovely Youtube video of Eight Belles. I haven’t seen the link here before; apologies if someone else has already posted it:
This is getting quite confusing with all these Eight Belles threads on COTH, but here are a few things I found interestings:
Eight Belle’s Jockey, speaks:
http://therail.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/05/05/eight-belless-jockey-speaks/
I remain heartbroken over Eight Belles, and I want to let her many fans know that she never gave me the slightest indication before or during the race that there was anything bothering her. All I could sense under me was how eager she was to race. I was so proud of her performance, and of the opportunity to ride her in my first Kentucky Derby, all of which adds to my sadness. Riding right now at Delaware Park and being around the horses and other jockeys is good therapy for me, but I hope the media understands that I prefer not to conduct interviews at this time. Please respect my decision while I mourn my personal loss.”
Take from this article :
Owner Rick Porter has asked that a necropsy be performed on Eight Belles. Baffert, for one, is anxious to see if perhaps she suffered some sort of cardiac or pulmonary event that caused her to stumble and break her legs. On Monday morning, Baffert said jockey Corey Nakatani, riding Colonel John, told him that when he passed Eight Belles on the turn, he heard the filly whinnying possibly in distress.
Veterinarian looks for clues to Eight Belles’ breakdown
By Mike Jensen
The Philadelphia Inquirer
Tucson, Arizona | Published: 05.06.2008
http://www.azstarnet.com/allheadlines/237595
No one close to Eight Belles expects to know exactly what happened to the filly after she finished second in Saturday’s Kentucky Derby — what exactly caused both of her lower front legs to fracture as she galloped out after the race.
But two days after the horse was euthanized immediately following the race, they were still looking for clues.
Larry Bramlage, the on-call veterinarian at Churchill Downs and a surgeon at Rood & Riddle Equine Hospital in Lexington, Ky., said that after studying the tape of the final strides taken by Eight Belles, he saw a dramatic weight shift just before she went down.
“She began to favor her right front for three strides,” Bramlage said in a telephone interview Sunday night. “Then she shifts dramatically to her left front. That was the third stride. … You could interpret it as a tripping, but I think it was a purposeful shift.”
Bramlage said he realized after talking to trainer Larry Jones that Eight Belles sometimes “cross-fired” while galloping, which could have caused a problem, but he could not see that on the tape.
When a horse cross-fires, it runs with one lead in the front leg and the opposite lead in the back leg.
“I’m not saying it can’t happen with a cross-fire; I just didn’t happen to see it,” Bramlage said.
Bramlage also did not rule out the possibility that micro-fractures had occurred during the race, which could have escalated as she throttled down afterward. However, he said the dramatic weight shift alone could have been enough to cause her problems to worsen.
“Her coordination (after the race) is not going to be what it would be with a normal horse,” Bramlage said. “Your muscles are fatigued, and your coordination is poor. She’s a big filly anyway.”
In a telephone interview Monday, owner Rick Porter said, “We’re 99.9 percent sure that it was just one of these freak accidents.” Porter, of Wilmington, mentioned the possibility that the filly could have tripped, saying that after talking to Jones, “he thinks her legs may have crossed and that’s why they were both broken in the same place.”
In an interview Sunday at Churchill Downs, Jones talked about how the filly’s ears had been up after the wire, indicating that she was not in any stress. He also said that Eight Belles had a cross-firing issue, although he added, “Now, did that lead to her breaking them? Don’t know. That I’ll never know.”
After the race, jockey Gabriel Saez, who did not work the horse in the morning, had said Eight Belles had started “galloping funny” after the wire.
“I’ll guarantee I know what he means,” Jones said on Sunday, describing how the filly often cross-fired.
“Any time you pick her head up and pull on her, when she’s ready to switch leads, she’d go to cross-fire, and I know that’s what he felt. I’ll just have to show him the pictures whenever I get them or get the film slowed down. … She’d be on the left lead in the front, right lead behind. She used to do that in the morning for the rider.”
It was an issue Jones had worked on himself, getting on the horse in the morning.
There was also a Derby photo gallery that I found last night with a picture of her standing, with just her Jockey holding her bridle, however I can’t find it today…
[QUOTE=MSP;3188108]
I was watching the terrible network coverage. It was only a quick pan to her just after she collapsed and two out riders had just got to her. They were more interested in photo ops with Hollywood celebs than covering the horses! [/QUOTE]
Personally, I applaud the network for NOT showing the fall ad nauseum (if they showed it all), because what good would that have done? I remember when Go For Wand broke down during the Breeders’ Cup way back in 1988, the press was rightly blasted for re-running it.
In case most of you aren’t aware all of the horses in this Kentucky Derby field had the DNA of Northern Dancer. Eight Belles was one of the more inbred Native Dancer horses in the field having several grandparents of this lineage. While the Northern Dancer DNA has been good for winning races, it also carries a very high risk of leg and foot injuries. Barbaro being another Native Dancer horse that had to be destroyed last year after injuring his leg in the Preakness. The problem with horse racing is that big money has upped the average sales prices of horses at Keeneland to over $100,000 each thus putting more pressures on buyers wanting a more guaranteed return on their investment and thus reducing the studs being used for breeding to a select few that produce more winners. So there is a serious genetic problem in these horses being created by too small a gene pool from inbreeding and only breeding to a few big time studs, which in most cases are horses already carrying a gene for leg problems.
The other major problem is that these horses are put on the track too early in life. The horses wouldn’t break down as often if they started to race as four or five year olds instead of three year olds.
The best thing we all could do is boycott this business until they clean up their act.
I read this on another blog, about the inbreeding problem… and how it might have created this problem for Eight Belles.
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