My former vet was a racehorse breeding farm vet before he came to the clinic I use. I asked him whether synthetic surfaces would help avoid catastrophic injuries and he said that they would UNTIL the horses started being trained on them as well as raced on them. His rationale was/is that the dirt tracks did toughen up their legs while training. (I hate it that he moved to South Dakota; he was the best.)
I think you mean 1990, and it was 3 horses.
regardless-it was 3 too many
[QUOTE=ItchyRichie;3186901]
I didn’t SAY that did I? I have just been unable to justify riding horses recently. This thought has just been looming over me for the last few months, especially recently since I took my horse on a trail ride and used a bit that ended up (accidentally on my part) cutting his mouth. Is it fair to him that he gets his mouth cut up because we thought a sharpening bit would be okay when really it wasn’t? It seems simple to you, care to explain to me then?? Please, TRY and step out of the whole mainstream, go-with-the-flow, “it’s natural”, THEY LIKE IT!, and everybody does it ideas. I’m asking honestly.
Do horses like this? Watch them in the paddock before races, many horses look scared and nervous. Watch them get into the gate, the skid away from it and rear and freak out on some ocassions.
I don’t know what I think anymore, is it really fair to ride horses who obviously hate it? I think racing is fun for horses like Curlin, Big Brown, and Pepper’s Pride but what about the rest?
This was my most recent attempt at justifying horse back riding:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4TeWzgy50s0[/QUOTE]
I apologize, I shouldn’t have been snarky. I think we’re all just a bit hot right now.
But where do you get the idea that Eight Belles hated racing? She seemed to like it, actually. She fought for second. In the clip that ESPN showed of Larry working her, she didn’t want to stop.
I don’t have solid answers to your questions. But, in my eyes, I think many do enjoy it. My horse seems to enjoy himself when I ride him. But, obviously, there are going to be a few who don’t, and that may have something to do with the way they are treated.
[QUOTE=LMH;3186682]
How many deaths do there have to be before something changes?
[/QUOTE]
The death of Eight Belles was heart wrenching. To see her give her all and then break down after the wire was like a punch in the gut. But, unlike many of you…I don’t blame horse racing for what happened.
Horses are beautiful, willful, fragile, animals. And sometimes, despite everyone’s best efforts, things simply go wrong. Last week, I saw two horses lose their lives at Rolex. Last year, I saw a young, healthy mare lie down to roll in a perfect pasture and break her pelvis when she went to stand up. My 4YO race filly is currently on stall rest with a soft tissue injury. Despite the fact that her pastern hurts, she doesn’t want to stand in a stall. She wants to run–just like Eight Belles wanted to run. A jockey can’t create a performance like the one we saw, the filly herself had to want to race like the wind–and she clearly did.
The only way we can keep our horses safe is if we put them in padded stalls 24/7, and even then they’d probably find something to get hung up on. What happened to Eight Belles is a terrible, terrible shame but condemning racing isn’t the answer.
I didn’t like her action behind in the walking ring. But I don’t typically have a great eye for soundness…I figured I was seeing things.
A buddy of mine linked this video of her workout last week: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0RHB46v5s7k
Should a horse moving this way have been asked to race?
big horses should be deferred to late. muscal mass and BONE DENSITY.
I am sick!
I see it in all disiplines; big babies mean to some people big actions.
thought i’d share some photos of Eight Belles. RIP girl!
http://www.rockportharbor.com/gallery/displayimage.php?album=lastup&cat=0&pos=0
http://www.rockportharbor.com/gallery/displayimage.php?album=lastup&cat=0&pos=15
http://www.rockportharbor.com/gallery/displayimage.php?album=93&pos=0
http://www.rockportharbor.com/gallery/displayimage.php?album=93&pos=2
http://www.rockportharbor.com/gallery/displayimage.php?album=93&pos=3
http://www.rockportharbor.com/gallery/displayimage.php?album=93&pos=4
[QUOTE=Beverley;3186800]
After that first shot, there was a replay of a camera generally on the horses galloping out, and Eight Belles went from fine to down/out of the picture in one stride. Replays of the 15 or so strides after the finish line looked perfectly normal, too. An awful, freak thing. But I am with you, sick and tired of the melodrama. Yes, this filly had a tragic end. But from the time she went down to the time she was dead- a matter of a few minutes, pretty much pain free because of the way shock and adrenaline work in response to injury. She otherwise had a fine life, best of care, and a cool trainer- loved the story they did earlier in the day. Contrast that with all the nameless horses out there everywhere, suffering for weeks or months or years on end from neglect, abuse and starvation. Go scream about THAT, folks- that is real cruelty. Horse racing is not. And neither is eventing, while I’m at it.[/QUOTE]
I think I like this post. Thanks, Beverley.
Tragic, heartbreaking… but the reminder that she likely suffered very little is a good one. We love these animals, all of us.
and a few more- she was very much obviously LOVED-
http://www.rockportharbor.com/gallery/displayimage.php?album=120&pos=21
http://www.rockportharbor.com/gallery/displayimage.php?album=120&pos=23
http://www.rockportharbor.com/gallery/displayimage.php?album=120&pos=24
[QUOTE=On the Farm;3186700]
As I have stated on this BB for the umpteenth time, scientific research indicates that just the opposite is true.[/QUOTE]
This kind of exercise? For a 17 hand 3 year old? If working 2 and 3 year olds like this is so good for them and makes them so much stronger, then why don’t other disciplines copy the way racehorses are raised and trained just for the physical benefit of it?
I know that I have no credibility whatsoever, but I don’t think an injury like this is much of a mystery given that the horse was 3 years old, 17 hands, and had taken something like 14 tons of pressure on her leading foreleg with every stride. It was just not in her heart to pull back a bit or take it easy. She quite literally gave it all she had and then some.
Pam
[QUOTE=Sannois;3186756]
ITs the nature of the sport.
They did not broadcast it, cause the cameras were not even on her when she went down. All you saw was a brief shot after Big brown spooked, and they flashed to her on the ground.
Seriously, its very tragic, but I am so tired of all these people saying, OMG I will never watch racing again, I will never watch Eventing again. Fine dont, but spare others the melodrama!
Sorry it just gets old.
Horses break down, and die. it happens more than anyone sees or hears about it. You not watching it is not going to stop it from happening.
Sorry Off soap box! :no:[/QUOTE]
I’m not putting either sport down but I question the justification & “it’s the nature of the sport” no longer is a valid response. It doesn’t mean I’m ready to join PETA & ban racing. I have just chosen to no longer witness the sport. I did the same with rugby when I saw my nephew’s ear bitten off. Sorry, but I’m getting old & I don’t find accidents & death entertaining.
No matter what a person views are, as an open forum, comments from posters should be respected.
Hey, I grew up in a family that LOVES horses racing and has owned several race horses over the years.
The Kentucky Derby will always remind me of my dad, now 83yo.
BUT to compare racing 3yo to horses rolling and breaking something is not quite the same.
Certainly horses are fragile…but certain risks CAN be eliminated or reduced.
There is a little wiggle room between racing them young and keeping them in padded stalls.
It all has the potential to be cruel, in my opinion. I think the way to make it not cruel is, first, to ask horses to only do jobs that, on the whole, they enjoy; and, secondly, to make sure they are fit to do their jobs and given every possible aid to safety and well being.
For example, I think some horses want to jump. They should be allowed to jump. Some horses want to trail ride. They should be allowed to do it. Horses will tell you what they enjoy if you let them. It doesn’t mean that they’re going to enjoy every single second of their job, but they should enjoy it overall. They should be eager to go to work. If they aren’t, then they are in the wrong career. (And, frankly, I see nothing wrong with some horses having the career of Lawnmower, though I think that most horses are actually happier having a bit of ‘work’ to do.)
Regarding safety, horses should not be overworked. They need excellent nutrition, equipment, and veterinary care. Jumps should fall apart if the horses hit them. And, in my opinion, we need to rethink whether it is really okay to work horses so close to their ‘operational limits’ as we do in racing and upper level eventing. Perhaps there are failsafes that could be put in place to prevent these kinds of tragic accidents. Of course, I think that there will always be crazy freak accidents (horses can, after all, break down in the pasture), but it seems to me that racehorse breakdowns and rotational falls in eventing should be preventable in almost all cases. And, frankly, if they’re not, then I believe that the sports are too intense. We are responsible for the well being of our horses, and we need to either make sport safe for them, or stop asking them to participate. Period.
Unfortunately, when horses become a big money game, sometimes people get too invested in the competition, and the horse takes a backseat. I don’t know if that’s what happened in this case or in the cases at Rolex or not. I don’t have any information at all about the people involved in those cases, and it’s possible that they are completely innocent of this. But I do think it happens sometimes.
[QUOTE=harvestmoon;3186845]You’re right. We should all stop riding immediately. Let’s set them loose and all join PETA.
:dead:[/QUOTE]
Hyperbole is unhelpful.
I’ll keep watching racing, but will curse the breeders under my breath every time something like this happens. If they would all breed as much for soundness as speed and stop breeding horses that are too big for their legs (at any age) from known unsound lines, maybe racing wouldn’t be such a dying sport.
Big Brown has really bad feet; everyone knows that. But he’ll make the breeding shed with a huge stud fee. And breeders will use him despite his feet. 
Edited to add: I just checked her pedigree, and she was pretty much born to break down. She’s 4sx4dx4d RAN–two to Mr. P, and one to Exclusive Native. That’s just too much RAN too close–and the breeder should never have put that mare to Unbridled’s Song.
[QUOTE=harvestmoon;3186922]
I apologize, I shouldn’t have been snarky. I think we’re all just a bit hot right now.
But where do you get the idea that Eight Belles hated racing? She seemed to like it, actually. She fought for second. In the clip that ESPN showed of Larry working her, she didn’t want to stop.
I don’t have solid answers to your questions. But, in my eyes, I think many do enjoy it. My horse seems to enjoy himself when I ride him. But, obviously, there are going to be a few who don’t, and that may have something to do with the way they are treated.[/QUOTE]
I don’t think eight belles hated racing, I actually had her in my little list with big brown, curlin, and pepper’s pride while I was typing it but felt like I had to add a little description about it and then decided it was grammatically awkward.
I think that a lot of horses like it but I just think there are so many that legitimately don’t. Most of the horses who like it would probably still be happy horses if they never knew the world of riding horses anyway IMO.
I mean, when I ride my horse in our outdoor ring, he SOO badly wants to just RUNRUNRUN and I think to myself “is it because he was a racehorse and that’s what he was trained to do or is it because he really just enjoys running?” In the case of option 2, is it fair that if he just legitimately loves to run that I stop him because I want him to jump around a little course which ultimately has no point other then my own entertainment?
How horribly sad.
How long does it take for the equine ambulance to get to a horse that goes down? Do they do digital radiographs immediately to assess the damage?
RIP brave filly.
[QUOTE=Oakstable;3186981]
How horribly sad.
How long does it take for the equine ambulance to get to a horse that goes down? Do they do digital radiographs immediately to assess the damage?
RIP brave filly.[/QUOTE]
There was no need for rads, open fracture.
The filly was 17 hands with long sloping pasterns…it was bound to happen…horses that big should be held back to mature.
Re: Thank You
FarmGirl88,
Thank you so much for posting the pictures of Eight Belles.
