Eight Belles

[bauhaus]

Do horses like it?

I don’t think there’s any doubt that lots of horses love whatever it is that they do. As they were walking out, seeing some of them busting out of their skin ready to go, seeing Big Brown pull up (at least initially) looking like he barely broke a sweat and like he could go run another derby, all I was thinking about was the fact that at least the ones I saw were happy to do their jobs. On a personal level, I’ve had a couple of dressage horses who were round and supple and through every minute of their lives with or without a rider! I’ve had one who clearly loved to jump - I don’t really jump but if I ever aimed her in the general direction of a jump and let her get the idea she was going to jump it, I had better hang on tight b/c there was no stopping her and she’d likely throw in a buck for joy afterwards.

But, the question isn’t really do they “like” it. They like people and they like being loved and taken care of, and they’re usually pretty happy to do whatever it is we ask them to. The question is, is it right to knowingly put them in potentially dangerous situations like racing, cross country, or even schooling dressage in bad footing or on a day when the heat index is dangerously high, etc. They don’t get to choose to be in these situations, and they comply because they trust us. It is not even remotely the same as a young horse breaking a leg in the pasture or something like that, and I think those who try to make that comparison know it and they just don’t want to face the fact that it might not be right.

I don’t have any answers, other than to say that I’m one of the ones who doesn’t plan to watch anymore. (Racing or eventing, for that matter).

[imissvixen]

Horse racing isn’t cruel nor is eventing but there are people who race horses and people who event horses that do cruel things knowingly or not.

God speed Eight Belles.

[J.D]

LMH…
Certainly horses are fragile…but certain risks CAN be eliminated or reduced.

There is a little wiggle room between racing them young and keeping them in padded stalls

“Big Babies need a lot of hard ground turnout”, Tom Ivers.

[maresnest]

[QUOTE=bauhaus;3186997]
I don’t think there’s any doubt that lots of horses love whatever it is that they do. As they were walking out, seeing some of them busting out of their skin ready to go, seeing Big Brown pull up (at least initially) looking like he barely broke a sweat and like he could go run another derby, all I was thinking about was the fact that at least the ones I saw were happy to do their jobs. On a personal level, I’ve had a couple of dressage horses who were round and supple and through every minute of their lives with or without a rider! I’ve had one who clearly loved to jump - I don’t really jump but if I ever aimed her in the general direction of a jump and let her get the idea she was going to jump it, I had better hang on tight b/c there was no stopping her and she’d likely throw in a buck for joy afterwards.

But, the question isn’t really do they “like” it. They like people and they like being loved and taken care of, and they’re usually pretty happy to do whatever it is we ask them to. The question is, is it right to knowingly put them in potentially dangerous situations like racing, cross country, or even schooling dressage in bad footing or on a day when the heat index is dangerously high, etc. They don’t get to choose to be in these situations, and they comply because they trust us. It is not even remotely the same as a young horse breaking a leg in the pasture or something like that, and I think those who try to make that comparison know it and they just don’t want to face the fact that it might not be right.

I don’t have any answers, other than to say that I’m one of the ones who doesn’t plan to watch anymore. (Racing or eventing, for that matter).[/QUOTE]

Really excellent, thoughtful post, bauhaus.

[Tiempo]

[QUOTE=MaresNest;3187006]
Really excellent, thoughtful post, bauhaus.[/QUOTE]

Ditto, very good.

[Sing_Mia_Song]

A friend of mine (who is a trainer and actually had a winner at Churchill on Thursday) saw Eight Belles break down right in front of her. She said the filly was galloping out fine and just fell like a ton of bricks, then immediately tried to get up but both ankles were broken. I think it’s impossible to determine conclusively whether the broken ankles cause the fall or vice versa, but I’d bet the former.

On the replay, I don’t really see anything other than a tired horse just prior to the collapse. Both she and Big Brown accelerated from the 3/16ths pole pretty dramatically.

Very freaky, and a terrible shame. However, I have to say that I find it terribly rude for people who are not involved with racing and only pay attention to the televised races to come here with such harsh words. There are numerous trainers, riders, owners who frequent this racing forum and care very deeply about their horses and their sport. They strive every day to make sure their horses are happy and comfortable. To damn the entire sport with sweeping generalizations is naive at best.

[pony4me]

I don’t know if horses like racing, or not, or if they like jumping, or eventing, or any other discipline. The problem is that we don’t have the ability to nurse them through a catastrophic breakdown, so euthanization is the only option. Until these all-to-frequent injuries are survivable for the horse, I won’t be watching racing.

[BelladonnaLily]

Anyone see where some jerk put on Eight Belles pedigree on http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/eight+belles that she broke both ankles in the STRETCH and then continued running on broken ankles to finish second?

I hate it when people just put information out there and don’t know what they’re talking about. Something COULD have happened before the end of the race, but at this point no one knows and certainly not some bozo on Allbreedpedigree.com.

[Larksmom]

I love horse racing

but I hate seeing two year olds run ON DERBY DAY!!! :mad: I do not think they should run before Saratoga or even later, but I do not know enough about what goes into it to be quilified to speak. However since this is an OPINION forum, my flame suit is zipped.
2 year olds break down all the time. What becomes of them? They are sent to the breeding shed, because they are fast. It would be nice if they ran 5 year olds, but it simply isn’t practical. Does anyone else out there remember the Canadian horse, I think it was Izvestia, won the Canadian Triple Crown, and his owners wanted to run him as a four year old? I think he broke a leg in the starting gate. :sigh: He was brilliant. [this is from memory. If I need correcting, please do]
We do not live in a nerf world. It is heartbreaking when things like this happen, but they do. I will not stop watching racing, though, and I won’t stop watching eventing. I always pray that the best horse will win, and that they all will finish on four legs. Sadly, all prayers are not answered in the way we would like.
Godspeed Eight Belles
there was a mini paen to her on HRTV tonight.

[Kenike]

Thanks to a fellow board member who posted this on another board. Beware, the picture is graphic:
http://www.comcast.net/sports/articles/general/2008/05/03/RAC.Kentucky.Derby.Eight.Belles/

[Arado_TB]

Could someone please explain “RAN” to me. It was reffered to her lineage.
Thanks.

[Cherry]

Poor Eight Belles… I had to go out to buy my own TB some supplies so I missed the race–I’m glad now that I did.

My husband had to work tonight–he’s the one who “plays the ponies”. Before he left for work he said if he had an extra money he’d plunk it down on Eight Belles–he really liked her. I don’t know how I’m going to break it to him…

Years ago there was a book published “Race Horses At Risk” by Lennart Krook and George Maylin. Their feeling was that overnutrition and the use of drugs are part of what contributes to breakdowns. I’ve never read the book–I’d like to if I could come up with the money to buy it. Here’s the link from Amazon.com: http://www.amazon.com/Race-Horses-Risk-Overnutrition-Breakdowns/dp/0962186805/ref=sr_1_35?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1209860474&sr=1-35 . I would be open to their ideas… It makes sense to me, having not even read the book yet.

I believe the Maryland Shin Splint Study stated that the horse really needs to train on the surface they will be racing on. You train over the surface at a slow rate of speed and ask for speed incrementally over the course of days so the horse’s legs can adjust to the density of the ground… I think this may be why Smarty Jones’ ankles and legs were sore near the end–just not enough time spent training on the surface on which he would be running… :uhoh:

As for whether TBs love to race or not… My mare raced a grand total of two times before her trainer figured out racing was not her “thing”… When I found her she was being boarded at a barn where there was another TB mare and the two of them would go out to pasture together. I personally witnessed my mare to be going up to the other mare and tapping her on the neck to challenge her to a race! :eek: The two of them would tear off and do laps around this huge pasture… :yes: :lol: I’m guessing it’s in a TB’s blood–they just have a hard time sitting still… :yes:

I don’t understand why people think it’s normal and acceptable for these horses to die… And for what??? So we humans (who have a brain and are supposed to be able to think) can jump up and down for a couple of minutes and have a good time knowing (all the time) that an animal could be giving up its life for that??? Hardly seems like a fair trade off to me…

How many of you would go out and saddle up your own two year olds and race them like this??? And yet, because the horse is a TB it’s thought to be perfectly acceptable??? Sorry… There has to be a better way… To paraphrase Bob Dylan, “How many deaths will it take 'til we know that too many horses have died?”. Until people start raising their voices it will continue unabated–speak up!!!

[Kenike]

Raise A Native (R A N)

[system]

First I’d like to say this about “what happened”. I think, very likely there are two possible scenarios which led to breakdown of this fabulous filly. The first is tiring. The filly ran a hard race, and obviosuly in the stretch she was tiring. When any animal tires, the support from the muscles, ligaments and tendons begins to give way, the animal can then take a misstep, which can lead to injury. How many times do you see a human runner tire and sprain or even break an ankle becuase their legs were jsut giving out from the exhaustion. I feel that is the most likely reason for this fillies breakdown., Second is that possiby she had a very smal hairline fracture that during the race weakened and then gave way at the end of the race. Noone will ever know for sure, but these are the two most likely causes of her broken ankles.

Secondly, all of you that want to stop watching that is fine. I too did not like what happened, it saddened and sickened us to see that filly lying there, yet she was swiftly attended to, diagnosed and euthanized. One thing racing has over ALL other equine sports is absolutely the best and fastest veterinary care available. It was IMMEDIATE that they attended to her. As someone else said a far better fate than what many ex-racers face! I do not understand the mentality that becuase a horse breaks down in racing,e venting or any other horse sport that we should cease that sport. If that DOES occur then there is not going to be a logical reason for horses to remain in our country, they aren’t used for work, except in very limited places, and they aren’t used for meat. They really are not companion animals like dogs or cats, so then what reason to feed, house and care for such a very large and expensive creature??? they exist SOLELY for sport, period. Our responsibility is to do our BEST to properly prepare and condition them, ride them, train them and compete them as fairly as we can. Accidents ARE going to happen, and the best we can do is swiftly attend to that animal and make the humane decision to euthanize when needed. And then to ELARN from the incident and try and improve things, but NOT to bash the sport altogether for one incident. It happens, and guess what, so do car wrecks and airline catastrophes. The hrose doesn’t have a say in what he is used for, but if he wasn’t usd for sport, he wouldn’t exist in our culture during this day and age.

[Kenike]

@shawneeAcres;3187069

When any animal tires, the support from the muscles, ligaments and tendons begins to give way, the animal can then take a misstep, which can lead to injury. How many times do you see a human runner tire and sprain or even break an ankle becuase their legs were jsut giving out from the exhaustion.

Exactly the point I was trying to make to cloudyandcallie earlier. I don’t think it has as much to do with the bone structure as the whole process of the exercise, unlike what that poster was saying.

Beautiful post, shawnee

[Arado_TB]

Gotcha ,Thanks

[poltroon]

[QUOTE=ItchyRichie;3186821]
This past month I’ve just been thinking about this kind of stuff in general and honestly…
do horses like this? any of it? jumping, eventing, dressage, racing, showing, being ridden at all? do THEY LIKE THIS?!? is this all cruel? do we have the right to do whatever we want with these animals just because we can?

I’m starting to feel guilty every time I go to ride my horse and I don’t know how to justify it, I just do it because I like to. is this really okay?[/QUOTE]

Most horses that I’ve ever ridden love to gallop. You can feel them grinning after a good one.

[Reds-n-Greys]

Thank you shawneeAcres for the perspective. Well said.

[BabyGoose]

[QUOTE=Tiempo;3186819]
I’m not stopping because I think I can affect change with my own personal boycott, it’s just that fear of what I might witness overrides the joy of the sport for me now.[/QUOTE]

My thoughts exactly. I’m not bashing racing, or blaming racing for her death. I don’t think that people who continue to watch are sick or anything like that. I have loved horse racing since I was a little kid. It has just changed for ME somehow. It is hard for me because I DO love it so much, but it has become to much of an emotional rollercoaster for me. Maybe that makes me too sensitive or melodramatic, but that is just the way I feel.

[Catsdorule-sigh]

God Speed Eight Bells, you ran with the boys, beat the field, and made Big Brown earn his win. What heart.

Thoughts with her owners and trainer.

I too, was appalled at the way the outrider treated Big Brown. I initially thought that’s why he dumped his rider, due to the rough handling. Horses get hurt that way.

RIP Eight Bells, run with the wind now, you have no restraints.