electric current "fall off" in an extension cord

I know that you’re not supposed to use extension cords with tank heaters but…

For the first time in 20 years we have no water in our little creek in the field in which our retired lesson horses live. The creek is normally dry during the summer/early fall but we usually start to get real rain in late Oct and the creek flows Nov-May. During the summer dry season we hook up hoses and fill a 200 gallon stock tank about once a week for these guys and then during the fall/winter they drink from the creek. I am not feeling hopeful about the creek flowing any time soon.

Getting water to the stock tank during the winter is going to be difficult but I think doable if we can do it once a week. The question is how to keep the water in the stock tank from freezing. So, my question is, how many feet can you get away from an electric outlet using an extension cord before you lose enough “umph” that it won’t power the tank heater correctly?

I contemplated the same question for plugging in a diesel engine heater of mine a while back. I learned about the problem but did not get quantitative about it. I’m sure that’s a google-able topic, complete with amperage (or volts?) lost per foot in different gauges of cord.

All I can tell you is that I bought a very long, thicker (16 gauge, not 12?) cord in order to work in that situation for my truck.

If you let the better-educated folks here know how many feet you need to stretch, I’ll bet they can advise you about what to buy.

Best of luck with your situation. I hope you can find a technical solution to keeping distant water thawed out. The alternative is a PITA to be sure.

PS. I’m not using that cord of mine now, so if you’d like to borrow it for the winter to add to your system and save some dough, you are welcome to it.

I would go to the nearest electrical supply co. bring the tank heater, along with the distance, and see if they can make something out of the proper gauge romex.

Only pug this into a GFCI outlet and I would protect the cord from damage with a length of PVC pipe.

[QUOTE=mvp;8938300]

All I can tell you is that I bought a very long, thicker (16 gauge, not 12?) cord in order to work in that situation for my truck.
.[/QUOTE]

electrical wiring sizes are backwards… the lower the gauge the thicker the wire

OP, how many amps does the heater require? Where/what is distance to the electrical meter base (not the sub panel if there is one? (use Google Earth measurement for that… really easy and very accurate)

If the heater can operate on 240VAC your amp draw will be reduced 50%

Haha. Now y’all know who you are dealing with. Don’t come to me for electrical expertise, but you can borrow my thick-ass cord.

[QUOTE=skyy;8938280]
I know that you’re not supposed to use extension cords with tank heaters but…

For the first time in 20 years we have no water in our little creek in the field in which our retired lesson horses live. The creek is normally dry during the summer/early fall but we usually start to get real rain in late Oct and the creek flows Nov-May. During the summer dry season we hook up hoses and fill a 200 gallon stock tank about once a week for these guys and then during the fall/winter they drink from the creek. I am not feeling hopeful about the creek flowing any time soon.

Getting water to the stock tank during the winter is going to be difficult but I think doable if we can do it once a week. The question is how to keep the water in the stock tank from freezing. So, my question is, how many feet can you get away from an electric outlet using an extension cord before you lose enough “umph” that it won’t power the tank heater correctly?[/QUOTE]

Sadly, this has the unsatisfying answer of “it depends”. Greatly. I’m sure it could be calculated but it would require you to provide data you might not have. At the end of the day the best answer is to try it and assess how it’s working.

The heater will put out maximum watts of heating when there is no loss in the electrical lines. With thicker extension cords rated for longer runs and outdoor use you should see more of your electric bill end up as warm tank water and less going into heating the strip of air around your extension cords.

It would not be crazy to carefully test the voltage at the plug while the heater is running. Be careful though if you don’t know what you’re doing you could shock yourself.

Come to think of it, my wife was not satisfied with the electricity bills last year in the barn and the tank heaters are the overwhelming culprit. I should test her extension cords against a new extra-large cord I bought for something else and see how much difference it makes.

David

“All I can tell you is that I bought a very long, thicker (16 gauge, not 12?) cord in order to work in that situation for my truck”

The lower the gauge number the “thicker” the wire.

A truck block heater are usually low watt and don’t draw alot of amps, (power) so unless it is a very long cord, 16 gauge should be work.

We use the standard sink heaters in our 100 gallon tanks which are 1500 watts and need a minimum 15 amp breaker/line and are kind of expensive to run on a daily bases if needed.

Electricity doesn’t run/travel, pass through wires “smoothly” especially long ones. It meets with a certain amount of resistance. The smaller the wire the higher the resistance. Resistance equals “heat”.

A simple example using rope. Take a length of rope hold it in of your hand loosely. Have someone take the end and pull it through. Little to no “discomfort” will be felt. Do the same thing but hold it tighter and it will be comfortable, heat build up due to the “resistance” caused by your skin. Hold it even tighter and you will either get a blister from the heat and or it will cut through your skin. A longer rope will cause more continuous resistance, creating higher and higher “heat”.

Basically the same principle when a high demand electrical appliance, device like a tank heater is doing the “pulling” of the electricity through a small wire. The longer the wire the more resistance is encountered depending on the size/gauge of the wire. Also resistance/heat causes voltage/watt/amp drop off by the time the electricity reaches the other end. Something won’t work or barely work. Something will work OK but will fail prematurely. A motor will operate/turn but not with the same “strength” and or speed.

Using an inappropriate size wire with a high demand devise will cause the wire to get really hot. The breaker may or may not trip, that takes another explanation. Basically breakers trip when there is a short. Controlled/designed resistance which is how a electric toaster works does not trip a breaker.

Running a large tank heater on a long wrong size extension cord will act like the wire inside a toaster. If the breaker doesn’t trip the wire will continue to heat up, the plastic jackets on the wires and outer jacket will melt and most likely burn. When the hot and neutral/ground wire touch the breaker will trip due to them shorting on each other.

When using a plug in extension cord on a heater even an appropriate size wire the wire will get/be somewhat hot which is normal. But the greatest resistance will be found at the plug ends. These will be hotter by and large. It is important to have/use commercial grade outlets. The male and female plugs are of high quality. Or cut the mail end of the extension cord off and “hard wire” it to the power supply, the wires inside the outlet box. By pass the outlet. Very easy to do.

Depending on the length of the wire run and the quality of the extension cord no smaller than a 12 gauge should be used. IMO and experience. Depending on the length needed these can be quite expensive. It is not a good idea to plug several together. The more plugs added the more resistance will be encountered, more heat, power loss.

The longest 12/2 extension cords I could find easily only come in 100 foot lengths. Not sure it they can be bought longer.

What I did before I ran buried electric to my paddocks was to make my own long “extension cord” using direct bury 12/2 wire. like this;

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Southwire-250-ft-12-2-Gray-Solid-UF-B-W-G-Cable-13055955/202316281

Bought 15/20 amp commercial grade male and female plugs. Very easy to attach. Well, not as easy as common wire. The jacket on direct bury wire is not that easy to strip back to expose the wires inside.

Plus I saved money because I could use the same wire when I got around to trenching and burying the wire. To bury it I used my chain saw with a crappy chain on it to “cut” a slit in the ground about 8-12" deep. Pushed the wire in and foot tamped it closed. Yes, I know code “says” it is supposed to be X amount of feet below grade. But there are no code police looking over my shoulder. I know where the wire is and I am not going to dig it up by accident. Even if I did it is only 120v. If it gets cut it will only trip the breaker. No harm no foul.

I know people on the forum are adamant about not using GFC outlets. I installed them at my tank heater outlets. They kept tripping, PITA. GFC have their place but this is not one of them IMO and experience. That would take another lengthy explanation. I replaced them with a standard commercial grade outlet. Everything works just fine, no dead horses, no horses refusing to drink from the tanks, no dead employees all’s good. To each their own on this.

Whether you do some of you own minor electrical work or not it is worth having one of these simple inexpensive outlet testers. Installing new outlets is simple for anyone with very basic skills and a screw driver. High use outlets should be replaced periodically. Especially if the male plug feels loose when plugged in. Outlets do wear out. Wires can and do come loose. Plug this tester in and it will tell you if everything is OK, grounded properly. If the outlet is wired wrong it tells you what is wrong. So it is a good idea to go around the barn/house and test outlets. Test the female end of a homemade extension cord.

Electrician charge a boat load for something as simple as replacing a $5 outlet.

http://www.homedepot.com/p/GE-3-Wire-Receptacle-Tester-50542/206212329?cm_mmc=Shopping|THD|G|0|G-VF-PLA-D27E-Electrical|&gclid=CjwKEAiApLDBBRC8oICb9NvKsg0SJAD9yOHsw3bxqlYlP4iXSkCQTnCdUNHWn52JFt1NiiJxuyv3TRoCy4fw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds

Sorry for being so long winded. But I figure these sort of things falls under “give a person a fish they eat one day, teach a person to fish” etc.

Well, that took up my entire lunch hour. OP will you bring me a burger please.

Dear Gumtree…

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. I’m sorry that took up your lunch hour but I think you just saved me from myself. As this is not my farm, I am limited with what I can do but everything you just wrote shows me that this is a BAD IDEA and I will have to come up with another way to water these horses. So again, thank you.

Well done, Gumtree. That was spot on.

I was just thinking of doing this kind of thing, thanks for the suggestions

David

What about a solar trough? I have a Bob trough that I ought about 15 years ago. It freezes on extremely cold days but works well most of the winter.

How about using a bubbler to keep the water moving so it doesn’t freeze. Needs far less electricity.

[QUOTE=Stonewall;8939686]
How about using a bubbler to keep the water moving so it doesn’t freeze. Needs far less electricity.[/QUOTE]

I have had a horse that stared to colic without heated water. She just didn’t drink enough. YMMV.

https://www.amazon.com/Century-Contractor-Grade-Gauge-Extension/dp/B000BMHV72

100’ 10 gauge cord.

I would also prefer to see it on a 20 amp circuit vs 15 amp.

Could you run a dedicated electric line out there from its own breaker and put in a permanent outlet. Then you’re prepared if this happens again.

FWIW, I have a heater that plugs into the drain of my water trough, and it only turns on when the temp of the water drops below 35 degrees. So it’s not on constantly, just when the water is in danger of freezing.

[QUOTE=airhorse;8941013]
https://www.amazon.com/Century-Contractor-Grade-Gauge-Extension/dp/B000BMHV72

100’ 10 gauge cord.

I would also prefer to see it on a 20 amp circuit vs 15 amp.[/QUOTE]

I would be comfortable connecting several 10 gauge cords together. But 200’ will cost over $180.

Where as buying a 250’ spool of 12/2 direct bury as I suggested only costs $88. Another $10± for commercial grade plug and one can make it as long as they need or make several. Granted the 12/2 wire is not as easy to pick up and coil when not in use but its not like it is being coiled on a regular bases.

If it was I would buy a cheap hose reel and use that. Direct bury has a very hardy jacket covering it. Will stand up to things. If there was a possibility of a shod horse walking on it or it being driven over from time to time I run it though a a section of some rubber hose that I have retired because of leaks but keep around for other uses.

I ran over 1500 feet of 12/2 to some tanks. It is a dedicated line on a 15 amp breaker. It powers two 1500 watt tank heaters and 1 small 250 watt tank with heater. It works fine with no issues.

I am switching over the large 75-100 gallon tanks to the 20 gallon “muck bucket” size with the built in 250 watt heaters. MacGyver insulated stands to set them in. Will have to fill these more often. But they are MUCH cheaper to run with my winter weather. 1500 watt tank heaters add $50+ per tank to my electric bill.

[QUOTE=gumtree;8941498]

I am switching over the large 75-100 gallon tanks to the 20 gallon “muck bucket” size with the built in 250 watt heaters. MacGyver insulated stands to set them in. Will have to fill these more often. But they are MUCH cheaper to run with my winter weather. 1500 watt tank heaters add $50+ per tank to my electric bill.[/QUOTE]

$50+ per tank over what time period?

Thanks for providing a lot of info on the day to day details of winter proofing. I think people often don’t realize how much work it is to run a farm :slight_smile:

[QUOTE=Palm Beach;8941336]
FWIW, I have a heater that plugs into the drain of my water trough, and it only turns on when the temp of the water drops below 35 degrees. So it’s not on constantly, just when the water is in danger of freezing.[/QUOTE]

Most but not all tank heaters have built in thermostats. I don’t like the ones that fit through the tank drain plugs. The ones I have tried had crappy plastic fittings that are easily broken and or strip out. I always seem to have one horse that likes to play in the tanks and breaks them.