Someone at a ride I was at was telling me about an electrolyte that was developed by a vet in Virginia that they and their picky horse really liked. It is specifically developed for endurance needs. My horse will spit out most electrolytes, and only really like the apple a day. I need something a little better formulated, as we had some dehydration problems after we had completed our ride this weekend. (About an hour afterward, just didn’t seem quite right.)
Long story short, I have had a few colics with this horse over the last 8 years, and he’s been training 16.5- 20 miles 1x/ week, 12 miles 1-2x, dressage workouts (normally about 1.5 hrs, ranging in intensity throughout the ride), and fun, but still productive, jump workouts. he has not had any problem whatsoever before. With the help of my vet, he has been colic- free for more than 2 years (problem was ulcers). We have a feed & supplement system that works really well for him, and training is consistent. However, he still dehydrated himself this past ride, and I am thinking of upping the level (quality, I guess) of electrolytes that he gets, hoping that this won’t happen again. (I don’t want to have the constant colics again.) He was much perkier after just the first half bag of fluids given via IV, and seems like nothing went on that day after 3- 2liter bags, as though he was ready to go more. I really think this is the only thing keeping us from going the bigger distances.
Any suggestions on electrolytes?
The electrolytes that were recommended to you were probably Enduramax. Although they have a pretty good formula they IMO pretty darn caustic and definitely not palatable. I used them when I got started in endurance riding and my horse developed a nasty case of ulcers, probably from a combination of things.
I highly recommend Perform N’ Win. They are the most palatable of the well balanced formulas. They have a bit more filler to them, no doubt due to the ingredients that make them palatable. It takes three scoops to make a dose. I’ve learned to use a carrier for the electrolyte powder that will increase stomach buffering. I like to use Pro CMC, a pink liquid that is basicly a horse antacid. Many horses will eat a full dose of Perform N’ Win in their feed if they get a fairly large amount of feed. One of mine scarfs it up but the other will only tolerate a 1/2 dose in his feed. So I mix the elytes with the Pro CMC in a squirt bottle and dose it with a dosing syringe. I dose every hour while actually competing, ful doses at the vet checks and 1/2 doses while on trail unless it’s really hot and humid then I give full doses on the trail also.
If your horse has had ulcers before I STRONGLY recommend that the elytes go into a stomach full of feed or it go in with an antacid.
Bonnie S.
hj trainer i like accel even though EXPENSIVE THAN MOST
at shows my horses got a dose syringe mixed w water and the powder they also got oats during lunch break at local one day long shows, they kept stamina and last classes were as energetic as 1st class
perform n win is the most palatable you’ll find.
my mare will literally suck on the end of the dosing syringe to get it all:)
ever since i started using peform n win i no longer dread electrolyte administration. she will also eat it if i dress her feed with it and she drinks the water with it as well.
My horse likes perform n win the best too- he wont eat it in his food but he will accept the syringe without too much fuss. Some of the others I’ve tried, particulary Lyte Now, he would throw his head up and it was a serious chore.
the only other thing I could think of is slowing down, especially if its very hot /humid. (Dont know how fast you go, of course.) Thats kind of a lot of miles to be training consistently too.
Sometimes it just not their day either. My horse got dehydrated last year during a 50 and had to be treated with fluids about an hour afterwards. I had “done everything right” that I could think of: went slow, he was drinking and eating fine, passed the vet checks with flying colors, etc. but it still happened. He perked up right away too but still scary. I gave him several months off after that just to be on the safe side.
Thanks- it seems that Perform N Win may be our next experiment. I am also looking at the homemade electrolytes listed on the Old Dominion link posted earlier, and might try that to see if he’ll take that, too. I never thought of giving a horse actual TUMS- but it makes sense now that I think about it… Definately want to try perform n win, though.
Saratoga- I have a constant battle with my horse to slow down. We slowed down from our last rides, but came in under my “goal” time of 3.5- 4 hours. I definitely want to take him to 50, but will not until he learns to go less than 10 mph and let other horses pass him and go on w/o a huge fit. We’re training that at home and with riding buddies, so we are getting a little better. Like you, my horse was just fine- a little tired- but nothing unusual until about 1 hr after. Thinking it was just a bad day, but don’t want this to happen again!
We’ll be backing off the training a little, but not too much as he is at his happiest when doing this. Always comes back happy and bouncy, even on obnoxiously humid days. Crazy beast! (I’m the only one exhausted after riding- normally trying to keep him from galloping the whole time!:))
Sometimes it is better to move the horse up to the 50’s if they are so into going fast at the shorter distances that they are spending all their time battling the rider. Most horses can run an LD on just desire alone. When the distance increases and the horse realizes that they are faced with yet another 25 miles on top of the first, they start to learn it’s not all about running all out at the beginning. They start to learn to conserve energy, and move at a more moderate pace. The longer you do LD, the more ingrained the horse becomes to running short distances and not preparing for true distance. They don’t “learn” to let horses pass at the shorter distance, nor do they learn not to have hissy-fits. They do at the longer distances.
If you are doing a LD within 3.5 hours, you are ready to move up into the endurance distances.
[QUOTE=5chestnuts;3457037]
Sometimes it is better to move the horse up to the 50’s if they are so into going fast at the shorter distances that they are spending all their time battling the rider. Most horses can run an LD on just desire alone. When the distance increases and the horse realizes that they are faced with yet another 25 miles on top of the first, they start to learn it’s not all about running all out at the beginning. They start to learn to conserve energy, and move at a more moderate pace. The longer you do LD, the more ingrained the horse becomes to running short distances and not preparing for true distance. They don’t “learn” to let horses pass at the shorter distance, nor do they learn not to have hissy-fits. They do at the longer distances.
If you are doing a LD within 3.5 hours, you are ready to move up into the endurance distances.[/QUOTE]
Sorry, I strongly strongly disagree!!!
IF the treatment vet is bagging a horse after an LD - moving that horse up to 50s before the issue of dehydration is resolved is about the worst possible thing that could be suggested. Regardless of how much ‘go’ a horse has.
It’s the rider’s job to control the horse’s speed, not running them into the ground to make them learn. If you can’t pace your horse, you have no business being there in the first place.
This may sound very strongly critical and it is - I just came from a competition where 10 horses were bagged, one was in very critical shape because A/ the rider refuses to slow it down ever. Stating it just won’t stop. And hnce it develops metabolic issues. (rolly eyes)
B/ ran it in 50 when it already had a history of being bagged on LDs (see A) . I was disgusted. And frankly so were the vets who’ve dealt with this particular rider/horse combo before.
Metabolic issues are serious business. Find the solution for that before you do any higher distances. Period.
RE: Electrolytes.
I confess, I use plain old salt. My horses get salt with every meal, a tsp.
I’ll use Northern Lytes once in awhile at a race to top them up, depending on how my horse feels, (normally it’s weather related for me, regarding that decision) otherwise it’s salt and lots of fluids. *watery beetpulp etc - I also taught my horse to drink/eat on the trail - I’m hoping yours knows this as well:) *
I’m with 5chestnuts on this one …
As I told someone about my young horse, “I’d really like him to see God on this ride.”
(Not meet him, mind you, just see him, off in the distance, saying “Hey buddy, slow down and relax and save your energy. If only you knew how far she’s going to ride you today.” :-))
And sorry, if you’re just using sodium and chloride for electrolytes, you’re missing a few.
The best thing for getting my big horse to smarten up on LDs and in CTR was 50s. The best thing for getting him to really figure things out and conserve his energy on 50s was, you guessed it, a 100.
Speed kills. Distance doesn’t. In my limited experience.
Back to the original topic. Another PNW fan here. I use Lyte Nows on trail because the doses are smaller and easier to manage and I like not having to fill syringes. 
Not a problem, rainechyles. We can agree to disagree.
I’ve seen tons and tons of rides with horses on IVs at all distances – LD up to the 100s. The Tevis is famous for it’s “bag trees” at the early start of the ride. When it comes to the LD, however, most of the problem occurs from uncontrolled speed based on the short distance. I’d hazard a guess that at least 60% of all LD horses come to grief because of speed. It is too easy a ride and too short a distance for the RIDER to think “I have to conserve my horse” – so they let the horse go faster than they should.
When the rider moves up to 50, it is more of a mental challenge (for most) and they willingly back off from the speed aspect (which suddenly is now scary) and work harder to achieve a slower pace. The best thing about endurance distance is … riders don’t want to fail. I think the desire to succeed (and complete) is stronger than they would have in an LD. Its been my experience that riders…and horses…learn a lot more at the endurance distance than at the LD distance. The majority of horses DO learn to slow down when they realize the trail doesn’t stop quickly. Riders do, too.
Sometimes a horse hitting the wall is due to just plain bad luck – no matter what distance. However, when it happens at the endurance distances, riders often have a pre-warning something is going wrong; wherein at the LD distances riders are often focused on just getting the trail done, and a horse can hide a problem better.
And yes – there are some (horses and/or riders) who never learn. Like you, I find myself disgusted with this type of stupidity at a ride, and wish they would take up some other sport. I’d rather see a bored Treatment Vet, then a super busy one.
Again, I fully endorse Perform n’Win. Been using it for over 12 years – it’s the best boost I’ve ever found for my horse’s gas tank. 
About the moving up to 50s when your horse is hard to control at LDs- I think it is probably a good idea but I think it is most important for the rider to absolutely slow the horse down, not just attempt to do it. Get off and walk on foot if you have to. Take some riding lessons so you become a more effective rider.
I started endurance doing LDs with a friend who had a crazy little mare who got all worked up and jigged like crazy, very uncontrollable. She decided to do a 50 to teach the mare to relax. She developed thumps at the last vet check and pulled Rider Option. She ended up quitting endurance with that horse.
I have a friend now with TWO horses like this. So I wonder if its actually him, though he seems to be a decent rider and is a wonderful person. He does 50s and the horses do actually settle down around the 35 mile mark but they are hellacious in the start and middle of the ride. I feel really sorry for him!
I tried Tevis a few years ago- most of the IV bags were at Foresthill, at about 70 miles.
Thanks for more advice- though we are getting a little off topic.
I had several other people tell me the same thing about moving him up to a 50. He’s done 4 25’s now, all coming in way under 3.5 hrs, and the other 3 was still acting fresh after the ride. Never had a hydration problem before, but once is enough for me to make sure it doesn’t happen again! However, this experience has made me a little more cautious before doing so… and thinking about it even more at the same time! (Grr…)
(A little about us… and where I come from before endurance…)
I am a former eventer (as is my horse), and have taken quite a few lessons with this horse in jumping and dressage. The endurance thing started completely as an extra way to get him fit and to ride with a friend of mine. Both Strider and I realized that while jumping and eventing is a blast, he was much more suited to this sport as competitive, while keeping jumping as just a fun thing to do. (Up to 3’6" right now, formerly was training at 4’). The fact that he was coming off the jump courses more hyped and uncontrollable was making this not as much fun as it should be, and endurance was much more fun for both of us. Compared to where he was, he is a saint, but compared to other horses, he’s still a devil at times. I am still going to finish out this year with 25, but have my vet and mentors OK for sending us up. (Now for my conditioning… no fair that no matter how fit they get, we still have to work harder to keep up!;)) I have found out that his jumping ability can come in handy on some rides, though… he-he!
Looking for some Perform N’ Win… Seems like the way to go!
Actually, I dont think it really is off-topic. I would be very concerned with a horse having metabolic problems after an LD, unless they were going way too fast / way too hyped up or the conditions were extreme heat and humidity.
If you do enough miles, you may get some bad luck and run into problems, but if you’ve only done 4 LDs and you’ve already required treatment, I think that a sign to slow down / calm donw, more than it is to use more electrolytes.
So just keep that in mind, not trying to preach
Forgive me, but…I just went back and really read your opening post, and realized this is a product, not a fruit (as I originally thought). Apple A Day is a racing electrolyte, NOT an endurance e-lyte – which is a MAJOR problem. One of the top ingredients in the mix is sodium bicarbonate, which is contraindicated for an endurance horse. You do NOT – repeat NOT – want to be giving an endurance horse, even an LD horse, sodium bicarbonate!!! NO NO NO NO NO!!!
Throw this stuff out or give it away, and don’t use it again!!!
Seriously, if you go any further than LD using this product you could put your horse at serious risk. Just go read some of the endurance vet reports on e-lytes and why you should stay far, far away from sodium bicarbonate.
However, he still dehydrated himself this past ride, and I am thinking of upping the level (quality, I guess) of electrolytes that he gets, hoping that this won’t happen again. I really think this is the only thing keeping us from going the bigger distances.
Once you get your horse on the correct e-lytes designed for endurance (again I strongly endorse Perform N’Win) you won’t have the dehydration issue raising it’s head. A great number of horses don’t start drinking on the trail until after the 20 mile point (mine is one of those) – which is why some riders will start pre-dosing with endurance e-lytes the night before…to encourage early drinking on the trail. But if you are only going LDs, some horses just don’t drink until you get back to camp – not a good thing for trying to teach them to take care of themselves out there on the trail because in an LD they know they will be back in camp in short order.
I don’t think your preaching- I like all the (consistent) info I can get. I am coming from a different sport, and am finding out that while there are similarities in the diet of all competitive horses, there are differences that make a world of… well… difference. This is one I took for granted, and am glad that it didn’t get too serious as to endanger my horse’s health permanently. It has me reading more books from the library, articles on the internet (through AERC), of course my magazines, and consulting with my vet even more closely. (Who we have trained with- checking P&R, sore spots, etc.- endurance is a very medical sport! Great training to become a vet if I wanted to!:D)
I still appreciate all input on the subject, as well as PM-ing me.
Sure we can agree to disagreee. I’m perfectly fine with that.
My point is:
I happen to have seen over the years, sadly too many times to count anymore - horses on bags.
Some may not think Iv’ing a horse is a big deal, - I happen to think it’s a very very big deal.
Those horse tend to be flash in the pans around this area, seen for a year or two in our circuit and then gone. Used up to fast, too hard and the rider has a new horse every couple of years. Some riders like that, - me, I care not to do it. Each to their own yes and I 'm fine with that.
(And I am in no way implying you are that type of rider at all , I’m merely expressing my observations and why I am against moving a horse up who has ‘go’ in lieu of other issues that may be needing to be addressed first.)
For me - endurance is about certain main things. And yes I subscribe to them, I don’t preach and then go on my merry way cluelessly.
1/ Condition/before/during/after the ride.
2/Distance & Speed. - yes, I do top 10. If my horse is ready. Never ever before. - This takes into account -age/conditioning/any issues the horse may have previously displayed/weather/behaviour(training) and pace.
3/ While this is last - it actually is what I truly denote as an ‘endurance’ horse.
Longevity
when I can ride the same horse season in/season out and complete every ride with solid vet scores, then… I think I have a horse. Again- thats just me.
As an example-
I’ll age myself here, depressing as that is to do!
I rode my first endurance ride at the age of 15.
I am 39.
I ride every season.
In my entire endurance career - I have had 3 horses. the 3rd horse is my current one still.
Last year, I had my very 1st pull from a ride ever and it was due to a fall and I RO’ed because I hurt so bad, I didn’t want to go on the next loop. ( I had a wimpy moment truly, heh)
I think that should count a bit for my point of view maybe
