Equine Reproduction Concepts is offering a Special on their Embryo Freezing. July through Mid-September only! Embryo freezing services.
Do many of you mare owners do this? I’m interested in hearing from those who have.
we did a lot of work last year figuring out how many ovacytes needed to be removed from a mare and injected with sperm from the selected stallion in order that a successful pregnancy would likely result. the mare is in germany and just had a casall filly, but we did not go ahead with the procedure of trying to produce and freeze fertilised eggs through the icse method due to the volume of tries required and associated cost.
[QUOTE=ne1;5704301]
we did a lot of work last year figuring out how many ovacytes needed to be removed from a mare and injected with sperm from the selected stallion in order that a successful pregnancy would likely result. the mare is in germany and just had a casall filly, but we did not go ahead with the procedure of trying to produce and freeze fertilised eggs through the icse method due to the volume of tries required and associated cost.[/QUOTE]
I think that the procedure that Equine Reproduction Concepts is offering the special on is on embryos that are flushed, not on oocytes that are fertilized with ICSI (Intracytoplasmic sperm injection). There is a substantial difference, especially in the costs involved in producing that embryo. Just clarifying.
[QUOTE=VirginiaBred;5704284]
Equine Reproduction Concepts is offering a Special on their Embryo Freezing. July through Mid-September only! Embryo freezing services.
Do many of you mare owners do this? I’m interested in hearing from those who have.[/QUOTE]
I do! What are their special rates? I may have a mare in VA needing to get flushed and frozen:-)
I was wondering a few years ago about this process. Itseems like a partial solution to aging mares and a bad economy-- just put the embryos on “ice” for now.
Has the technology improved both in harvesting and implanting?
I am assuming you would need to use frozen though (or how to write a contract for fresh?)
Thanks
Here is the Equine Reproduction Concepts, LLC contact information:
Email: info@equinereproduction.com
Phone: 540-937-9832
We do, I have some frozen embryo’s in my tank.
Dr. Dippert at ERC did an awesome job with my ETs this year, which we flushed, put on an airplane, and implanted in mares in another state. We did not freeze but I plan to have him freeze some for me. He is excellent!
[QUOTE=Equine Reproduction;5704337]
I think that the procedure that Equine Reproduction Concepts is offering the special on is on embryos that are flushed, not on oocytes that are fertilized with ICSI (Intracytoplasmic sperm injection). There is a substantial difference, especially in the costs involved in producing that embryo. Just clarifying.[/QUOTE]
thank you for correcting my terminology and acronyms! its been a while since i looked at it all.
it seemed like a good way to readily acquire multiple viable embryos for freezing and importation, until you seriously ran the numbers…
For those that were freezing the embryos what were they finding for success rates with post thaw and implantation??
[QUOTE=rodawn;5705234]
For those that were freezing the embryos what were they finding for success rates with post thaw and implantation??[/QUOTE]
My understanding is that the success rates at ERC for implantation with frozen embryos are comparable to those with fresh. Whatever additional risk enters the equation by adding an additional step (freezing) apparently is offset by other factors such as an enhanced ability to perfectly sync the recipient, or something like that.
Right, sometimes with ET, the closest recip mare is one day earlier or later, or a half a day earlier or later - no matter how well you track them - and the uterine environment isn’t quite as hospitable to the embryo as one would have hoped. Remember, the durn mares don’t read the manuals. With frozen, you can get the exact time with a recip mare first, then thaw the embryo, rather than harvesting the embryo and hoping the recip mare is in exactly the right stage.
[QUOTE=Edgar;5705011]
We do, I have some frozen embryo’s in my tank.[/QUOTE]
Edgar, who did the repro work for you?
From ERC: Recently, embryo freezing protocols have been established whereby pregnancy rates are near those found with fresh or cooled embryos.
Nick Carney did the ET and vitrified some. He has done in the 20’s for us over the years with great success. He is a genius but hard to manage time wise.
I like these points:
Why Freeze an Embryo?
- For early foals, breed your mare in the fall and transfer
the embryos into recipients in the spring. - Sell equine embryos like selling semen.
- Reduce embryo transfer costs (by minimizing recipient herd usage).
- Get a foal without owning a mare or stallion (using leased mares).
- Potential offspring can be in storage indefinitely.
I asked the folks at ERC about this and this is the answer:
“There are no success rates for post thaw. Success rates are based on pregnancies after transfer. One should expect a 55-60% pregnancy rate after transfer of a frozen embryo.”
[QUOTE=ne1;5705222]
thank you for correcting my terminology and acronyms! its been a while since i looked at it all.
it seemed like a good way to readily acquire multiple viable embryos for freezing and importation, until you seriously ran the numbers…[/QUOTE]
YW 
The problem with using frozen embryos for import/export is that both the mare AND the stallion (or the stallion’s semen) must have been tested and processed with the appropriate tests for exporting to the appropriate country :P. But, it’s a great marketing tool and one I kinda scratch my head about why more of some of the big European facilities don’t use it. The costs for importing would be significantly less than importing 1000 pounds of horse :D. Maybe in time it’ll catch on more…
It “does” significantly reduce the need for a recip herd, which is, IMHO, the biggest single cost associated with ET’s.
The success rate with frozen embryos is comparable to that of immediate transfer of the embryo. The advantage is that you can transfer the embryo at the perfect time without trying to make sure you have a mare synchronized perfectly. Ideally you want the recip mare to ovulate within no more than one day before and up to two days after the donor mare. That can be tricky sometimes, especially if you’re dealing with a limited number of mares.
A bit of an offshoot, but still related to this thread, I have heard that ET foals can sometimes be regarded as “inferior” because they could, in theory, inherit some genes from the surrogate mare, which is often not a top mare.
It is a matter of epigenetics if my memory is correct.
ET is a fantastic technology that I would LOVE to use, but I am concerned about all thoses genetic things we still don’t know much about!
What is the consensus at this point on this?
Given my current breeding status (no mares out of 4 pregnant) I am ludicrously insane enough to report that I did a frozen embryo transfer yesterday.
I’m scared to call and see how it went in case they say 'oh, we dropped it. Sorry ‘bout that!’
