So, for anyone who has done ET recently, what sort of costs should I expect to incur? An old mare of mine (who is exceptionally well bred, has Elite Status and was a very successful performance horse) has come back in to my life…she just had a foal last week and it was a long, hard delivery with significant tearing and pain. She is an older-ish mare (17) and while I have always wanted a foal from her for my very own (current foal is for sale by owner, and is very nice, but priced very high, and doesn’t have the breeding I want on sire’s side) I’m hesitant to breed her conventionally as I don’t want to risk anything happening to her. She’s a complete love and I couldn’t live with myself, knowing that she had a rough birth this year if anything, and I bred her anyway and there were any ill-effects.
Anywho, as I am a breeding newbie anyway, I’m wondering what doing ET and using a surrogate mare will cost me. I have another mare who has foaled recently very successfully available to use as a surrogate at no cost.
Also, can you freeze equine embryos and use them later, like they can with people?
Thanks in advance!
There are so many factors that can affect cost of ET such as: your location and local costs, vet fees and again this may be based on location, how easy your two mares are to cycle simultaneously, ease of getting a viable embyro, etc.
You need a repro vet with a good track record doing ET, not all vets are successful. I know breeders who have spent from several thousand to 5-6,000 and did not get a live foal.
If you have a VERY GOOD repro person in your area, they can be quite helpful.
But I’d want to make sure they had lots of successful experiences doing ET. It can get costly very quickly.
Some repro vets post the costs on their websites. And some keep a herd of recipiant mares, too. If they post the cost of the procedure, they probably post the cost of the recipiant mare, too. You could check a few of these websites to get an idea about how much it would cost.
The cost vary greatly depending on many factors. The biggest cost is usually the recpt. mare if using one from the vet herd or having 2-3 of your own. It is best to at least have 2 other mares to cycle w/ your donor mare in case one goes early or late. We can cycle them as close as we can but mother nature can always throw a wrench in the best laid plans. If you only have one mare then a backup from a herd may be necessary. Then remember all mares cycling together must be ultrasounded so that is 3x the number of ultrasounds and they need to have been cultured as well. It can very easily run a minimum of $2-3,000 for the first cycle and yes it sometimes takes a few times. Remember some of the donor mares are older, sub fertile and retain fluid or such reasons that they don’t carry their own. I would plan on $5,000 and hope for less. Our last two ET foals cost about $4,300 and $6,000.
I think it costs $500 just for a flush, that is, looking for the embryo, What I understand is that if there is NOT an embryo to transfer, it is still $500. Does anyone know if that is correct. How long does it take to “look” for an embryo? $500 sure seems like a big cost for just a few hours (I’m thinking, anyway.) There must be more discussions on ETs on the internet? but not finding much current info. Was looking for more info from mare owners speficially,not from the vets. Want to get the mare owners perspective on this, and the costs they incurred. thanks everyone…
I did an ET many years ago with my local vet school repro center. It cost me about $5k + the cost of semen/ shipping/ collection.
The rate of success is going to be hugely variable as others have mentioned. Are you using frozen versus fresh semen? Are you having the same place do the insemination work, embryo collection work and implantation work? Or having your local vet do the insemination and embryo collection and send the embryo to a different facility for implantation?
Many vets doing ET work prefer to do both the insemination and embryo collection as it is critical to collect the embryo at just the right time of development.
Yes, it is possible to freeze and embryo. BITS, who frequents this board has either done it or tried (can’t remember if it was successful). Hopefully she will chime in for you.
As other have said, having at least 2, better to have 3, possible recip mares will give you the best chances of getting at least one mare’s cycle perfectly synced. Yes, drugs can help manage cycles, but even then having just one possible recip mare you may not get it just right.
Forgot to add…that next year I will most likely be doing an ET with my riding mare. Depending on how much of a gamble I feel like taking I will either use my vet school again or collect the embryo and ship it to a facility in the midwest with a huge recip herd. Then leave the mare there until the foal can be weaned and sent to me. The latter is the most costly, but spares me from having to be on stressful foal watch with a mare I know nothing about.
Flushing
[QUOTE=blueribbonpanel;8150823]
I think it costs $500 just for a flush, that is, looking for the embryo, What I understand is that if there is NOT an embryo to transfer, it is still $500. Does anyone know if that is correct. How long does it take to “look” for an embryo? $500 sure seems like a big cost for just a few hours (I’m thinking, anyway.) There must be more discussions on ETs on the internet? but not finding much current info. Was looking for more info from mare owners speficially,not from the vets. Want to get the mare owners perspective on this, and the costs they incurred. thanks everyone…[/QUOTE]
The flush requires a lot of equipment much of which is generally disposable and certainly NOT cheap. The fluid for flushing is also quite expensive as are the catheters for the mare. Tranquilizer and oxitocin are generally given. The fluid runs through a filter- then the embryo needs to be identified and graded. This requires skill and an appropriate microscope. If identified the embyo needs to either be transfered or cooled for shipment. It is an extremely intensive labor endeavor. I have taken the ET course and worked as a lab tech in Med school, so the identification process is not a problem-- but rather than pay for the supplies and do the flush myself it is MUCH more cost effective to have someone else flush my mare!
I use Royal Vista SW in Oklahoma. They do hundreds of ET and vitrifications per year so they definitely are one if the more experienced places in the country. 750 mares are in their recp mare herd.
(Based on last years prices, do to know if the rates have gone up this year)
Costs are:
$1000 yearly program fee per mare.
Board by the day 11-25 per day depending on the level of privacy. Single turnout to herd turnout.
$450 fresh semen or $550 frozen semen breeding fee per AI cycle
Once the recp mare checks in foal at 28 days you owe $2800.
When the recp mare leaves the facility you buy her for $700.
Not included is anything extra needed for your mare such as oxytocin, extra flushes after the first (at least with vitrification flushes), culture, biopsy prior to breeding etc…
Vitrification adds $250 per embryo.
Success rates vary by facility and vet so you may read 80% success rate on line but thats not the whole story. The guy who does it five times a year may only have a 20% success rate. Don’t let them quote % for the industry. You want to know what their actual success rates are. Experience is the key. Embryo quality is another important factor. If your mare only produces grade two embryos, I’m not sure I’d freeze them. The best results come from perfect embryos with thick “shells” that are removed when they have just exited the Fallopian tube. They must be small (ideal is 150 microns) for the best success rate. 30 microns is too big. Attention to detail is critical.
BITS – have you ever gotten an actual live foal from any of your frozen embryos? What is the success rate?
Success rate depends on who did the freezing and unthawing and the embryo quality upon being frozen.
AFTER the embryo is flushed, the facility I use has a 70% success rate with grade 1 vitrified embryos taking in the recp mare. Grade 2 has a lesser success rate. I tried unthawing one grade 2 and it did not work which was not surprising considering the embryo ‘shell’ was very thin. I have not tried any more yet. Saving those.
Another factor to consider. It is not unusual for warmblood mares to have multiple ovulations, which could result in multiple embryos, possibly at different stages of development/size.
There is a different schedule for flushing if the intention is to vitrify the embryo vs. transfer to recip mare. What will you do if you flush for transfer, but get lucky (?) and end up with two embryos? They might be too far along in size and development to vitrify, depending on current criteria. Then do you have two recip mares ready and able, cycle-wise, to receive them?
[QUOTE=keysfins;8152885]
Another factor to consider. It is not unusual for warmblood mares to have multiple ovulations, which could result in multiple embryos, possibly at different stages of development/size.
There is a different schedule for flushing if the intention is to vitrify the embryo vs. transfer to recip mare. What will you do if you flush for transfer, but get lucky (?) and end up with two embryos? They might be too far along in size and development to vitrify, depending on current criteria. Then do you have two recip mares ready and able, cycle-wise, to receive them?[/QUOTE]
When I bred my mare for vitrificaiton, she double and triple ovulated all three breedings. One on each side two times and two and one the last time. That made it harder because I only had one dose of semen for each breeding so they split the semen and used half on each side. In the case of one stallion with a three straw dose, only one straw went into the second ovulaation side and it was crappy semen to start with. Had I known that before it was put in I would have used two different stallions on each side. I’m lucky to have gotten one embryo with a two sub-par semen straws. So be prepared with more semen if you find yourself in this scenario.
Anyway, What my vet facility did was time EACH ovulation and breed exactly AT ovulation (frozen). If this had been fresh semen, they watch to see exactly when ovulation happens. The timing on vitrification must be perfect. So they knew exactly when to start flushing each side. If they bred one side two hours later than the first, they’d flush that side two hours after the first side was flushed.
So yes, if a vet isn’t detailed oriented and says I’ll just wait and get the both at once, they could flush two different age embryos out of and one could be too old to vitrify. If this is how the vet does things, don’t use them!!! If they know exactly when ovulation happened for each follicle, they should be flushing for each ovulation. They’ll attempt to get the first embryo exactly when it exits the fallopian tube and then go back and look for the second embryo at exactly a specified number of hours/days after the 2nd ovulation. Two of my embryos came from different sides and different ovulations that happened hours apart and were flushed hours apart but are identical in size and age.
Sometimes they don’t always find the embryo on the first flush and it will have grown by the time it’s found. Sizes can vary between 150 (ideal) to 300 microns (iffy). My vet will flush up to three times to find an embryo for vitrification.
I have not done an ET before but I was contemplating this spring and checked costs from various vet and repro facilities. The result was estimated total cost between ~$5k -$7k. I would aim for $5k but be prepared to spend more.
The nice thing about recip mares is you usually don’t pay for them until they are confirmed in foal, so if for some reason she double ovulates and you have more than one embryo you have a better chance for at least one of them to take. I bought a mare with the intention of using her as a recip and as my husband’s horse, but have since decided it is cheaper and easier to use a herd. As others say, prices vary, usually it is cheaper to buy a package deal instead of paying for each procedure separately. Freezing techniques and success rates are improving every year, so it is more viable, but I think the suggestion is to freeze 4 for every one pregnancy you hope for in case of a low success rate. Best of luck. I hope to do ET next year.
I know this is an old thread. But processes and prices have changes a lot over the last few years. I did an embryo transfer on a mare for a 2018 baby. It was $6000. This included the collection of the egg, lab work, the ISCI ivf process, fees, the use of a recip mare, the actual cost of the egg from a champion show mare and shipping. The breeding had to be done via ICSI ivf, which is another specialized type of artificial incemination. They only use ONE sperm and inject that sperm directly into the egg to achieve fertilization. I provided the frozen semen which would have probably added another several thousand dollars to the total. The recip mare is pregnant and doing well. She is due to deliver in May. Just a few years ago, this same process was upwards of $7000-$9000 + stud fee + collection + shipping.
Also “regular” embryo transfers that don’t involve ICSI ivf, can be done today much easier too. Get your recip mares ready and healthy by January 1st and start them all on Regumate. Once the transfer process begins from your donor mare, leave the recip mares on Regumate rather than trying to time cycles. Just implant the embryo. Continue the Regumate treatment for another 3-4 months on the recip mares until the actual pregnancy hormones take over. The embryo almost always takes. This takes away much of the frustration of trying to get mares to cycle at the same time. And if you get two or three embryos, you’ve got the mares ready.
