Empire Maker Sold to Japan

[bingbingbing]

Exceller and Ferdinand deaths did open eyes.
Japan is an island, but it is not exactly a sandbar; it is just slightly smaller than California. Land is at a premium, but I think it is also about practicality.

Ferdinand in Japan

"Toshiharu Kaibazawa, who worked as a stallion groom at Arrow Stud during the horse’s years there. He called the former champion (Ferdinand) “the gentlest horse you could imagine. He’d come over when I called to him in the pasture. And anyone could have led him with just a halter on him. … He’d come over to me and press his head up against me. He was so sweet.”

“I want to get angry about what happened to him,” Kaibazawa added. “It’s just heartless, too heartless.”

[Xctrygirl]

Are we all forgetting War Emblem??

Sold to Shadai, horrible fertility and breeding issues…

And did he turn into sushi??? Umm no… His Japanese owners have invested tons of money into getting him the best and brightest professionals over to Japan to work with him and help him.

There’s a standing offer for him to return stateside if/when he cannot be the stallion he is capable of being. Now yes he’s a Derby winner in the post Ferdinand era, but I am trying to highlight the care with which he is being treated by his Japanese owners.

I think we too often forget that one person’s bad decisions do not as a whole represent the country of occasion. God only knows what we look like if you look at Alydar’s death and the death of Eight Belles (on the surface).

Or how about we judge the Irish based solely on the folks with Shergar??

Maybe we should go after the Aussies for running Phar Lap with so much weight and blame them for his death in Mexico.

Bad things happen… whether through circumstances or bad decisions made by less than savory individuals. But those do not mean that an entire country will all uniformly repeat the same scenarios.

We could all use a moment to think of the world with less divisiveness. It’s not about American-kind… it’s about mankind.

~Emily

[keepthelegend]

I agree that Japan takes perfectly good care of their horses and we sold a stallion to Japan in 2000. I do think due to the space concerns and maybe less sentimental attachment that an agreement needs to be in place about what happens to the stallion at the end of his breeding career.

[Linny]

We sell hundreds of horses (maybe thousands) every year to Japan. many of the mares and weanlings sold in the last week in KY will go to Japan, some to other parts of Asia, others to Europe and around the globe.

[DeeThbd]

It is interesting to step back and look at the horse industry on a broader spectrum and consider European warmbloods…Dutch, Swedish, etc. Where would NA sport be if a similar theory were to be applied to the show ring?
Secondly…the monies made from the sales of these horses…theoretically, is re-invested by the seller in future racing in NA. Without those sales, would the sport suffer?
Dee

[danceronice]

@DeeThbd;5225595

It is interesting to step back and look at the horse industry on a broader spectrum and consider European warmbloods…Dutch, Swedish, etc. Where would NA sport be if a similar theory were to be applied to the show ring?

I don’t know about that being an accurate comparison–the warmbloods can ship semen, meaning the stallions can stay in Europe while still dominating a huge portion of the sport market. One issue with getting US breeding off the ground is the horses physically sold here are not the top animals–those get sold to the riders in Europe and bred via frozen semen. So they have rather neatly cornered the market for the top animals.

(Plus, hey, get rid of those warmbloods and expand the market for OTTBs over here, would not be not a problem in my book.)

[DMK]

@judybigredpony;5222747

The Saudies raided our blodstock for years

We should be so lucky as to have another country “raid our stock” like the Saudis. Raid it by purchasing it, stabling it, training it, racing it, breeding it and retiring it pretty much in the confines of our borders. Such an economic tragedy that is, money flowing in instead of out.

Unfortunately that’s not how it typically works with Japanese breeding/racing interests, but it is the way racing has always worked. We certainly took advantage of WWI and WWII to get some top horses over her.

[Mara]

Shadai has gone above and beyond with War Emblem, yes.

But they lost my respect eight years ago. Sunday Silence was allowed to suffer for far too long before he gave up and died. It was, IMHO, nothing short of cruel. Perhaps not intentional, but cruel nonetheless.

[Xctrygirl]

[QUOTE=Mara;5226412]
Shadai has gone above and beyond with War Emblem, yes.

But they lost my respect eight years ago. Sunday Silence was allowed to suffer for far too long before he gave up and died. It was, IMHO, nothing short of cruel. Perhaps not intentional, but cruel nonetheless.[/QUOTE]

Ok let me see… agreed he suffered from laminitis. He was first diagnosed in May and eventually died in August. Wow… 3 whole months.

Now wait let me see… weren’t there some AMERICAN well known Derby horses that were kept alive while trying to fight laminitis?? Didn’t they stay alive, while fighting the disease at their owners requests.???

I’m sure I’ll recall the names… just give me a sec.

Are you F___ing kidding me?? Shadai lost all your respect because the horse that MADE them as THE place in ASIA (A big continent btw) to breed your mare, was sick and they were attached enough that they didn’t want to let him go and they took a step too long to pull the plug and his heart gave out. After 3 months.

Man I am glad you don’t judge me or my decisions. By this scale I am sure we shoulda pulled the plug on Nana much sooner!

~Emily

[Toadie_s_mom]

Very well stated posts, Emily. I have a “writer friend” who travels to Japan at least once a year to visit stud farms, watch the races, etc. Just like the nice farms here, the horses are very well taken care of. The horses that don’t do well racing, or at the breeding farm, may not spend the rest of their lives in luxury. The same as horses here. How many people here in the US would you like to see in prison because of the way they treat their animals? I think the Ferdinand incident did change some things in Japan, and that’s wonderful, although still terribly sad. My point is, we’re not in a position to throw stones at an entire nation:no:

[Glimmerglass]

Cruelty is universal and sadly nobody has the exclusive rights. IMHO China (and no Japan and China while “Asian” couldn’t be any more different or bitter rivals) is far more tolerant of it that nation isn’t swooping down to buy up American stallions - yet. Regardless this assumption that once the source of slaughter, always the source of slaughter makes no sense. Be vigilant yes, but don’t in the knee-jerk reaction always assume the worse.

Exceller. Back in 1978 he crafted one of the most stirring editions of the Jockey Club Gold Cup ever, bar none. He was bred by a billionaire who was author Ian Flemming’s source (sans evil designs) for Bond villain Auric Goldfinger - Charles W. Engelhard Jr. He would be purchased and campaigned by Texas billionaire Nelson Bunker Hunt. Yet for all his success on the track, the powerful connections tied to him he still died a miserable death in Sweden - not Japan, not Saudi Arabia, not some 3rd world hole in the ground that 2% of the nation could find on a map.

Yes a cruel fate delivered to an American stallion in the land of Volvo’s and ABBA. Again it’s not like Japan is the only place on Earth to find an ugly act.

Then of course there are champions who are kept in duty despite the pain because they are the living ATM. Turkey? Well maybe but no I’m thinking of the US as being just as easily an example.

For me I think the Taylor’s and Three Chimney’s rather then pension Seattle Slew kept him working because the money was far too good. Ship him over to Rood & Riddle, perform surgeries but don’t dare stop that green from flowing. That to me is more of an outrage than say a perfectly fine but less then stellar horse going overseas for stud duty.

[Mara]

[QUOTE=Xctrygirl;5227407]
Ok let me see… agreed he suffered from laminitis. He was first diagnosed in May and eventually died in August. Wow… 3 whole months.

Now wait let me see… weren’t there some AMERICAN well known Derby horses that were kept alive while trying to fight laminitis?? Didn’t they stay alive, while fighting the disease at their owners requests.???

I’m sure I’ll recall the names… just give me a sec.

Are you F___ing kidding me?? Shadai lost all your respect because the horse that MADE them as THE place in ASIA (A big continent btw) to breed your mare, was sick and they were attached enough that they didn’t want to let him go and they took a step too long to pull the plug and his heart gave out. After 3 months.

Man I am glad you don’t judge me or my decisions. By this scale I am sure we shoulda pulled the plug on Nana much sooner!

~Emily[/QUOTE]

Excuse me, but the reports in Blood-Horse and Thoroughbred Times immediately following Sunday Silence’s death made it clear that the team at Shadai KNEW at one point that the horse wasn’t going to make it. He stayed off his feet and wasn’t at all happy. I’m sure he got pain meds and supportive care, but to what end? THAT, to me, is inhumane - they just waited for him to die.
The Japanese aren’t big on euthanasia except in obviously catastrophic cases. It’s a cultural thing, I know, but it’s one that could use some tweaking.

I should not have to point out the ridiculousness of comparing an animal to your grandmother.

[danceronice]

If we’re going to talk about owners who kept horses alive long past the point of sanity…Barbaro should have gotten the shot or a bullet between the eyes without ever leaving Pimlico. That was a disgusting display of delusion on the owners’ parts and idiocy on the medias. That horse would never be sound to leave his stall off a lead again, let alone stand up and breed a mare or get turned out to pasture. If we’re going to complain about a horse with a manageable illness lingering a week or so too long, how long was Barbaro kept alive?

[Xctrygirl]

[QUOTE=Mara;5228204]
Excuse me, but the reports in Blood-Horse and Thoroughbred Times immediately following Sunday Silence’s death made it clear that the team at Shadai KNEW at one point that the horse wasn’t going to make it. He stayed off his feet and wasn’t at all happy. I’m sure he got pain meds and supportive care, but to what end? THAT, to me, is inhumane - they just waited for him to die.
The Japanese aren’t big on euthanasia except in obviously catastrophic cases. It’s a cultural thing, I know, but it’s one that could use some tweaking.

I should not have to point out the ridiculousness of comparing an animal to your grandmother.[/QUOTE]

Really??? Both Blood Horse and TTimes published reports where it was clear to all that he wasn’t going to make it? Odd because I just pulled up 2 articles, here let me share them:

http://www.thoroughbredtimes.com/weekly-feature-articles/2002/august/31/from-unwanted-colt-to-racing-immortality.aspx

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/11007/derby-winner-top-japanese-sire-sunday-silence-dies

Now admittedly it’s been 8 years, but a re-read would be worthwhile. I certainly got nothing from the articles that support your suggestion that they knew he would succumb. Or at least that they knew anymoreso than any horse battling laminitis in 2002. I did see enough mentions to understand that many people at Shadai worked valiantly to save him and the vets were ever present and trying to make him comfortable. Remember this was pre-slings and pre-Barbaro.

And umm DanceronIce, that’s who I was referring to. Barbaro for all our judgements on what should or should not have happened has given a TON of valuable information on laminitis treatments, aids and such. Sunday Silence wasn’t sick at at time or place when these options were readily present or available.

And Mara, I think it actually is a great comparison between my grandmother and a stallion in Japan simply because both our society and the Japanese view euthanasia as not an option in these 2 applications. We had to let my grandmother die…America doesn’t believe in euthanasia of humans. And in Japanese cultural they prefer the soul to leave of its own accord.

Seems applicable enough to me.

~Emily

[Mara]

[QUOTE=Xctrygirl;5228569]
Really??? Both Blood Horse and TTimes published reports where it was clear to all that he wasn’t going to make it? Odd because I just pulled up 2 articles, here let me share them:

http://www.thoroughbredtimes.com/weekly-feature-articles/2002/august/31/from-unwanted-colt-to-racing-immortality.aspx

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/11007/derby-winner-top-japanese-sire-sunday-silence-dies

Now admittedly it’s been 8 years, but a re-read would be worthwhile. I certainly got nothing from the articles that support your suggestion that they knew he would succumb. Or at least that they knew anymoreso than any horse battling laminitis in 2002. I did see enough mentions to understand that many people at Shadai worked valiantly to save him and the vets were ever present and trying to make him comfortable. Remember this was pre-slings and pre-Barbaro.

And umm DanceronIce, that’s who I was referring to. Barbaro for all our judgements on what should or should not have happened has given a TON of valuable information on laminitis treatments, aids and such. Sunday Silence wasn’t sick at at time or place when these options were readily present or available.

And Mara, I think it actually is a great comparison between my grandmother and a stallion in Japan simply because both our society and the Japanese view euthanasia as not an option in these 2 applications. We had to let my grandmother die…America doesn’t believe in euthanasia of humans. And in Japanese cultural they prefer the soul to leave of its own accord.

Seems applicable enough to me.

~Emily[/QUOTE]

Perhaps we interpret the articles differently. Seems to me that Sunday spent too long in pain, and there was not a lot of hope.
FWIW, I’m not certain about Barbaro, though we did get repeated assurance that he was bright and happy for the most part up until the last day.

[Xctrygirl]

I worked for Matz during the whole ordeal and spoke to Peter after his visits. Aside from the one public down turn and then the end, he was indeed happy and feisty throughout.

~Emily

[Mara]

[QUOTE=Xctrygirl;5229063]
I worked for Matz during the whole ordeal and spoke to Peter after his visits. Aside from the one public down turn and then the end, he was indeed happy and feisty throughout.

~Emily[/QUOTE]

I always did take the reports at face value, though there was the occasional “doubting Thomas voice” piping up once in a while. The photographs seemed to indicate he was pretty comfortable.

I am glad you cleared away any doubt, though.