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Endurance bred Arabians for dressage?

There is a breeder - Elaine Kerrigan of Kerrigan Bloodstock - who crosses her gorgeous Grand Prix Arabian stallion, KB Omega Fahim, on Shagya Arabian mares. She also had, at one time, a quality, substantial purebred Arab mare that she would breed to Shagya stallions.
She has had some excellent results producing horses with a bigger frame, good bone and substance
and they clean up in the showring - she breeds for dressage and most of her horses end up competing in both open and breed shows in dressage…
These horses have three good gaits (sometimes superb gaits) - trainability, rideablity, and a lot of heart.

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Elaine has very good stock – both Arabian and Shagyas. And KB Omega Fahim not only competed through GP dressage but has a Half-Arab (Paint) daughter who also competed through GP.

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That Skowronek/Raffles lineage persists even generations later. The 4-square balance and substance are great. As are the sparkling friendly personalities. With well chosen complementary lineages the less ideal traits associated with the line (low withers and shorter height) can be overcome.

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@DawnJL, I agree completely! This girl will be bred to Major Mac V this year (assuming she ever decides to deliver her 2021 Half Arab foal…367 days and counting now…) to attempt to address those exact issues and also add a dash of modern type. I do the ranch horse/cattle classes; Varian over Al Marah just makes me feel warm and fuzzy inside. :smiley:

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@Montanas_Girl, my small breeding program is targeting both purpose bred for sport disciplines and preserving some of the CMK lines that were dwindling away via being outcrossed. So I’ve balanced the Skowronek/Raffles with Aurab/Warren Park and Silver Vanity/Oran. None of it is particularly “modern”, but that’s the point for me. I like the old-fashioned horses. :wink:

Best wishes that your mare foals soon!!! And good luck with crossing your mare to Major Mac V; Sheila Varian was another master breeder like Bazy. If the working western disciplines are your goal, that’s a good blend to use!

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Thank you, @DawnJL! I’ve admired your horses for a while, so that means a lot.

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Oooh… I just had to go check out her horses. My Black Stallion cravings seem to have returned. Lovely horses.

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I wish we could have this thread for jumping Arabians.

I want one of those, but too many of 'em (and too many of their fans) think a good jumper can have knees and upper arms that are quite low over a fence. I think that comes from these horses having a short humerus (and perhaps straight shoulders). But I think that same conformation in the shoulder makes for not-a-lot-of-reach in the Arabian’s best extended trot.

Amirite? Or is there some other component to good form over fences that I’m missing? Or, just show my your Arabians/Arabian crosses with great form over fences… if nothing else, just for some hope-giving eye candy.

I just appreciate y’all’s attention to conformational detail in this thread. It has been hard for me to find in discussions of jumping horses and those who also know Arabians.

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I think the biggest issue with jumping form in Arabs comes from their tendency to hold tension in their backs, which makes them jump a bit flat and trail their hind ends. Good performance-bred Arabs do not (or should not) have straight shoulders or a lack of reach in their stride. Not-so-good ones, obviously, are a different ball of wax.

Here are some photos of my old Half Arab (75% Arab, 12.5% QH, 12.5% TB) hunter showing good but not spectacular form. Granted these fences are only 2’6", but he was also just barely 15.1. He was usually quite square and good with his forearms but loose below. His flattish jumping style made him easier for me to stay with over fences, I will admit - at 3’ plus, he would use his back hard enough to jump me out of the tack, but I can’t find good photos of that. Lol.

Fall Classic I 2
(Yes, I bought the rights to this photo.)

Murphy Show 6

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My technological skills are missing today, so you will have to Google these boys for yourself, but immediately coming to mind:

Tamarillo, eventing at top level with William Fox-Pitt, won both Badminton and Burghley, registered Part-Arab. There is a clone now standing at stud.

Upsilon, stallion that used to event at top level with Tom Carlile before a severe illness cut his career short. The dam is Anglo-arab. The French have very well-established breeding for Anglo-arab sport horses. An absolutely beautiful horse.

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Arabian stallion over a 1.25m oxer at the 70 day SPT. He earned good scores in the free jumping, stadium jumping, and XC test phases even though my focus for him is in dressage. He’s competing at Intermediare dressage now so only jumps occasionally for some variety.


One of the 70 day XC obstacles:

This 13.3H Arabian gelding was jumping 1.15 meters in both stadium and XC in training when I sold him. He’d once comfortably jumped a 1.2m stadium course that the working student hadn’t realized had been reset to that height. He shows on the Arab circuit now so the jumps are lower, but he still lights up when he sees the next jump. (this photo is from a class at one of the Arabian Sport Horse Nationals)

Blast from the past, the Anglo-Arabian, Rex the Robber (Noran ox X Berenice xx)
who competed internationally in the 70s with Alwin Schockemöhle:
alwin schockemohle and rex the robber
Interestingly, Noran, the Arabian sire of Rex the Robber, also sired a KWPN stallion named Olympus who was the first international GP dressage horse for the Netherlands:
olympus by noran ox

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The Ravenwood Ranch in Montana has bred Arabians for decades and has some super athletic ones. This is Ravenwood Qahtahn who began his dressage career rather late in life and who has become a star, rapidly climbing the levels. He’s a natural for piaffe and passage. Betsy Steiner has been a clinic coach for several years and is amazed at how far he’s come in such a short time. His greatest attribute is the amount of “try” he has and a willingness to work–he never quits.
Photo 1

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Look at this pedigree for an An McKay horse. It is a dream pedigree.

http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/arzab

When I returned to riding at 50, I found a 3 year old who had lovely bone (8" canons) and sport horse movement. We had fun winning hunter paces. He loved children and he is still with his family at 19 (after many years). He spent some time at the track in Michigan, and enjoyed that thoroughly.

Recently, his person loaded a slide show.

These athletic horses are out there. You can check year end USEF breed association awards and find them under Arabian and Half Arabian. Further story is that I found a relative of Khidron and bred her to Sinatra Song. The resulting colt debuted (just) at I1 at 12. He is now qualified for USDF regional championships. On the Half Arabian circuit he has been a regional champion for years at Sport Horse Under Saddle and Show Hack, along with the USDF levels for AHA shows. The heart is there with these horses, and they love to train.

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While that will locate those that show on the breed show circuit, it will NOT include the Arabians, Anglos, and Half-Arabs who only participate in the open world. OTOH, the USDF All-Breed Awards will include Arabians, Anglos, and Half-Arabs scoring well in dressage whether they are competing in USDF shows or AHA shows (as long as the horse is enrolled in the USDF All-Breeds program).

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Well look at both, then. In our region, the AHA sport horse shows are in the same venues as the open shows with rated judges. It is fun, and less crowded for younger horses. These are where my horse got half of his start. There are a lot of children showing and getting well deserved scores in dressage and jumping. Yes, there are sport horse in hand classes for those who want to try their hand at that.

I was simply advocating for not overlooking those of us with Arabians who don’t compete at the AHA shows. Lots of youth and amateur riders in particular compete with their Arabians in USDF (or in USEA, USHJA, etc.) venues because we enjoy the challenges and opportunities there just as others enjoy what the AHA shows offer them. It’s fabulous that those of us who appreciate the breed can each participate in whatever segments of the equestrian world suit our particular discipline interests and goals. :unicorn: :rainbow:

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Classic Ann breeding!! Her last Arabian stallion descended from Aazrak, Admiral Harnley, is in his late 20s now and likely in his last breeding season.

When I returned to riding at 50, I found a 3 year old who had lovely bone (8" canons) and sport horse movement. We had fun winning hunter paces. He loved children and he is still with his family at 19 (after many years). He spent some time at the track in Michigan, and enjoyed that thoroughly.

They are so often such generous and kind partners. What a good boy!!!

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So happy someone mentioned Ravenwood Arabians. The lovely mare Ravenwood Crescent (now deceased) was one of the Ten Original Purebred Arabians approved by the ISG (the International Shagya Arabian organization) to begin Shagya Arabian breeding in the US. They were bred to Hungarian Bravo, a Shagya stallion found on a Montana ranch when he was 23 years old and this was the foundation for Shagya breeding here in America.

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It’s nice to see Shagya breeding continuing here in the US. I truly believe that there is potential for growth.

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Shagyas really are amazing horses but it’s been such a challenge trying to promote them. The breeder who founded Shagya breeding in this country retired from breeding - she was our biggest producer and since she retired the numbers of new foals have decreased.
Our organization is small and does not have a lot of money to advertise but after three decades I had hoped they would have become more well known, and that more serious riders would have become interested.

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