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Endurance saddle suggestions

Endurance and Trail Riding
#21

Some people obviously have trouble when tresured preconceptions are challenged. I’ve given the OP another viewpoint. She can take it or leave it as she sees fit. Ditto for everyone else.

G.

If, by any act, error, or omission, I have, intentionally or unintentionally, displayed any breedist, disciplinist, sexist, racist, culturalist, nationalist, regionalist, localist, ageist, lookist, ableist, sizeist, speciesist, intellectualist, socioeconomicist, ethnocentrist, phallocentrist, heteropatriarchalist, or other violation of the rules of political correctness, known or unknown, I am not sorry and I encourage you to get over it.

#22

For reference: The Romans used treeless for riding; they had “treed” saddles for packing.

Treeless saddles were used throughout Europe in the 13th and 14th century; treed riding saddles came into more prominence during this era as a result of the spread of armored warfare, and continued as they became favored by the elite since the tree covering could support highly ornate tooled, decorated, and designed frue-frues to “look good”. Plus, as the elite tended to be heavier in poundage than the common man – to be fat was a sign of the rich; to be grossly fat was a sign of REAL wealth-- a treed saddle helped support/distribute the huge weight of these fat cats over the horse’s back. Since everyone wanted to look rich and important, a treed saddle because the flavor of the day, the “sports car” of that age.

Up to the 19th century many non-western cultures still continued to use treeless saddles – if you happen to just focus on Eurocentric civilizations, you’ll (of course) miss the rest of history’s stories.

If you want to know the detrimental effects of the treed saddle in the 18th through 19th century, simply look at the paintings of the famous race horses – and notice all the white spots behind their withers.

Yes, sirree. You sure have supplied the OP another viewpoint … full of errors and misinformation and total ignorance. I’m happy to help set you straight… and make sure the OP is also aware there are right answers… and ones that are just too ill conceived to consider seriously.

#23

Hey G, whatever you’re smokin’, I’ll take a snort.

#24

I’ve ridden in several treeless saddles. I currently have a Barefoot and like it. I dont however agree with the blanket statement that treeless saddles are better than treed. It really just depends on the horse and rider, like pretty much everything else.

My favorite saddle however is the DeSoto that I had made for my gelding about 4 years ago when I was having a terrible time with saddle fit. It cost about $1400, closer to $2k when you add up the fees associated with measuring for it, fittings, etc. It is quite heavy, and has a western look to it although it feels like a dressage saddle to sit in. I cant say enough good things about it. It is extremely comfortable for me and my horse never has a sore back, ever. We have probably 900 AERC miles in it, including rides up to 65 miles and a multiday. Even though my horse’s condition / weight, etc. changes periodically with more or less riding and as he gets older, it still fits. I use an Equipedic pad with it. I would highly recommend it.

#25

I prefer treeless for distance riding. I’ve had better back scores with them than with treed. They are infinitely more comfortable for my horse and myself.

That’s not to say there aren’t plenty of great treed saddles that work for distance. Its a matter of the fit and combination and preference. Different strokes for different folks. I really liked the old OrthoFlex Feather paneled saddle I had and a lovely Black Country Vinici dressage. Ended up selling them due to back issues but they were wonderful saddles.

Usually when I look for opinions, I like to pick the brains of those that have actually walked the walk. Otherwise, I could just ask the opinion of the child on the mechanical horse in front of Wal-mart.

#26

A2 aren’t you currently pi$$ed off about your own treeless saddle rolling and getting dumped off your Arab of late? I can’t quite figure how you’re passionate about a saddle that keeps leaving you face first on the precious land of cheese and cow patties?

#27

A2 got one of the less expensive treeless saddles, I believe. I just attended a treeless saddle demo yesterday, and there are a number of good options to fit all sorts of body types. The dealer told us that not all treeless saddles work for all body types, and she strongly recommended riding at least 25 miles in a demo before buying. Her own mare is picky about the saddle, and the dealer has tried many different manufacturer’s and types from each. Right now, she likes to ride in a Sensation. The Bob Marshall Sports Saddle was also highly recommended by endurance riders who were there.

For me, those saddles don’t have enough support for me. I did find one (a Ghost) that looks like it would fit my high-withered OTTB, but the seat wasn’t wide enough to support my bad hip.

Llong, no matter what you buy, if you can ride in a demo, you can make sure your horse likes it before blowing money on it. The other thing is that on such a long ride, your horse’s back is very likely to change shape, so a saddle that fits at the beginning of the journey may not fit him in the middle or the end. I think that is why so many are saying that treeless might be a good option for your horse.

Oh, one last thing. If you try treeless, the pad makes a huge difference. Your dealer should be able to help you find the right pad or modify an existing pad to suit you and your horse. There are many padding options out there!

#28

What’s with the attitude? It must suck to be in such a crappy mood all the time. Perhaps spring can’t come fast enough for you? Go sit in front of the SAD light and have a drink.

In any case - I never said I am “passionate” about treeless saddles. I said I am having a terrible time on my mutton withered, flat backed horses. I also said things have improved since putting the fiberglass pommels back into both saddles. I also said that the padding is part of the problem because I am not using what the Mfg. recommended.

The fact is - whatever works for you and your horse is what you should use. Treed, half tree, treeless. There is never only one solution that works for all horses and all riders. I love the Abetta saddle, which is treed. I own one of those, and still use it from time to time, depending on how the fancy strikes me for the day.

Maty - I have one cheap treeless, and one Bandos, which yes was inexpensive, but isn’t cheap. The price on those will probably go up as they leave the “introductory” phase and go into full production. Or at least that’s what I’ve been told.

#29

Oh, lord are there opinions and attitudes flying around. Heck, I rolled a saddle several times on my round, mutton withered horse. It was a very well fitted dressage saddle and that type of horse can really be hard to keep a saddle centered 100% of the time. And I don’t fall or dump easily!

i’ve got around 2000 miles total between endurance and CTRs in treeless saddles. Almost all of my endurance friends ride in treeless saddles and many of them are heavy weight riders and regularly do 100 mile rides. No back issues, no white hairs. there is a big range of treeless saddles and pads made for them. My neighbor, a heavy weight rider, went to a saddle fitting clinic with Dr. Joyce Harmon. She used a computerized saddle pad under his saddle that has pressure sensors that give feed back to the laptop PC it connects to. He rode his horse with his BMSS at a walk and trot while she recorded the fit info. Dr. Harmon told him she was pleasantly suprised at the excellent fit and weight distribution of the saddle. She has now included info about treeless saddles in her saddle fit book.

Personally, I think you may get some of the best weight distribution with the BMSS but I also have a Sensation treeless saddle that has three options for stirrup attachment to the saddle. Two the attachment methods do really help spread the riders weight across the entire saddle. I’m going to try competing in this saddle this year after riding this winter in it. I’ve yet to find a dry spot of sore spot on my horse yet. He has been ridden for 5 years so far in exclusively treeless saddles. In fact, on the east coast you will see more BMSS on endurance and CTR horses than any other brand. Can only speak for this area but I’d bet that this is also the case thru the rest of the country.

Bonnie

#30

Chicamuxen, when you say “heavy weight” rider what kind of weight are you talking about? I’ve read posts here where people think 150lb is “heavy”. I’m a fair bit more than that (yes I confess sz 18) and have stayed away from treeless because of that. Just curious.

#31

Those are the same two points that I thought when reading your post. I have both treeless and treed saddles (which I use depending on my mood). I’m not a light weight rider (190). I haven’t had any problem with my horses’ backs being sore. I ride with either a Saddleright pad or a skito pad. I had my saddle fitter check their backs and he saw no problem with the set up I was using.

I have found that on my warmblood (no withers and round) I have some problems with stability. I ride in either a Torsion EL or a Freeform. The Torsion will slip on him unless I use a thinline pad.

#32

Jnel,
AERC has four weight categories. HWT is 211 lbs and up. This is rider and tack combined. At the beginning of the year you have to declare which category you are in. As I get older I just keep getting shorter and shorter horses and lighter saddles. Now I’m reduced to stripping more tack off my horse! Hah, the joys of middle age! Actually my young horse keeps growing, darn him. Even my farrier (who’s family raises those Irish Draughts) remarked last night that he’s gotten taller. Gotta laugh, he seems huge to me at 15.1 + because my Mighty Mouse is 14.3. gone are my days of lightly hopping onto a 16.2 hand horse.

bonnie

#33

Hey Bonnie, I sat on a Bob Marshal Sport Saddle (BMSS) after hearing your recommendations at the clinic. Unfortunately, the seat doesn’t offer me enough support. Neither did the Ghost. Luckily, I took a lesson on Monday and the instructor checked the Arabian tree Abetta for me–said it is good for my horse for right now. I can continue to save money for a while. I’m hankering for one of those Skito Dry Back pads, though.

A2, I didn’t mean to knock your saddle. I’ve been riding a mutton-withered horse for a friend, and the Sensation stays pretty centered. I can even mount from the ground with it. However, your horse could be totally different. I don’t think a tree helps much on those superwide backs with no withers. I’ve got the opposite problem with my guy.

Llong, we’d love to hear an update about how your plans for the ride are going. Can we live vicariously through you? I don’t see myself ever doing such a long ride, but one never knows. I’ve got a neat pony-yearling in my field that seems sturdy enough to make such a trip. Maybe by the time she’s 10 or so my husband and I could plan a long ride. I’d truly love to ride as much of the Appalachian trail as possible. I don’t think my OTTB would be up for such a looooong ride. He’s a hard keeper, is very emotional, and his feet are soft. I’d think that an easy keeper with a stoic disposition might be a better choice (as long as the stoicism doesn’t mean he’ll hide pain until he’s broken down).

#34

Matryoshka, don’t forget that most saddles have variations available. The BMSS have a variety of pommels and cantles available, They have a western style cantle that offers far more support. Then there are bigger or wider pommels. In fact this is importent for everyone to remember.

  1. If it is different from what you are used to it will probably feel wrong. That’s normal, it is different. It still may be better for you and your horse and it takes time for your body to make that change.
  2. Just because you don’t like something about a saddle doesn’t mean there isn’t a fix. The mfgr may make a slightly different model that is what you want/need. Or a different saddle pad or shims added to a saddle pad may be the fix. Get creative. You may not be able to buy the perfect saddle off the rack but you may be able to make a saddle perfect with a little creativity.

Bonnie

#35

Thanks Bonnie, I’ll keep looking and checking into the options available. :slight_smile:

#36

Well… probably in a different price range/ quality category - but I recently had to shop for a very round, mutton-withered gaited Missouri Fox Trotter. The shop that I trust explicitly for fit is West 20 in Wisconsin.

After sending photos and wither tracing… The store owner brought me a Fabtron endurance, special contoured tree to try. I had to wait almost 4 months for the saddle with that tree.
I like Fabtrons because they use the Equi-fit, Steele tree and their upper saddle is ALL leather, providing a solid support; while the skirting and fenders are cordura. Stirrup “leathers” are leather-reinforced web.
I am also ordering a pair of SA Walls slant stirrups with 3" tread.

I have not had a chance to ride this saddle but several friends have sat it and like it over several others we all tried during a recent horse expo.
The retail price on this saddle is $719.00

I also have a friend who recommends switching saddles for long rides or week-long rides. Using 1 for a few days then a different one for a few days - of course, it all depends on the ride’s rules and accommodations.

I have ridden in a BMSS - I really, really liked it and considered it for this MW, MFT… however, between the trainer and myself - we were worried about front-to-back pinching due to the shape of the horse, since the BM’s have a solid pommel and cantle and because this was a gaited horse with their particular movement.

Good Luck with your saddle search and with your upcoming ride!!

ETA: This saddle allows for “straight” cinch/girthing or centerfire rigging.

#37

[QUOTE=gothedistance;3061118]

Last year AERC endurance riders logged over 870,000 competition miles – the vast majority doing so in treeless saddles. [/QUOTE]

Curious how you came up with this figure. Please quote your sources.

I don’t believe AERC asks riders to name what kind of saddle they ride in, so how do you come up with “the vast majority?”

It’s like a recent magazine article saying a “vast majority” of endurance riders were riding barefoot…totally NOT true. The last time I was at an endurance ride “the vast majority” were riding in treed saddles on shod horses.

#38

I dont see the vast majority of riders with treeless saddles either. Certainly they are popular though. I pretty much see every kind of saddle represented- Abettas, orthoflexes, dressage saddles, even western, you name it.

I dont see as many Bob Marshalls anymore (BTW, I had one and hated it- slid up my horse’s neck and was incredibly uncomfortable for me). Barefoots and Freeforms seem to be getting very popular.

#39

I think the treeless idea is pretty interesting, and the owner of the horse I half-lease said both he and her previous horse really liked the treeless dressage saddle she got. I tried it a while back and thought it felt fine but didn’t want to ride in a dressage seat; horse has since lost weight, and in desperation (me and her Wintec do not get along) tried it again recently. I was one for all of two minutes. Now that Bob is not just a TB but a skinny TB, it was like having his spine for a thong. I imagine it would very comfy on a nice round Arab, but ooo, not this guy :slight_smile: Nor can I imagine he enjoyed the sensation all that much.

#40

How does anyone see the “vast majority” of endurance riders in the AERC at any one ride, or even in any one region? :confused: I think region has a lot to do with what equipment you see.

I think if a person lived near, say, April Battles, and used her as a role model and saw that she rides treeless, they might be more inclined to ride treeless. But if you lived near some other big name mileage person who rode in a particular brand of treed saddle, the people who look up to that person in that region may use that particular kind of saddle.

At the rides I did last year, I tried to pay attention to tack and I saw stuff absolutely all over the board from treeless to every kind of treed saddle you can imagine. Also in terms of foot wear too. I saw horses who were shod, horses in boots, and one horse who was totally barefoot. It all varies from ride to ride, the terrain, the region, etc.

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