I know there have probably been a million threads similar to this. Here’s my dilema- I have two saddles I love dearly, a devoucoux xcountry saddle and a county dressage saddle. However i’m going on a really long ride and know it would probably be better to purchase and endurance saddle. I’m trying not to spend too much… Any suggestions? any brands I should stay away from? thanks!
Just one really long ride? As long as the saddle fits your horse very well, I don’t see any reason to have to buy a new saddle. In fact, it’s probably better to stick with what you know works for your horse. Buy yourself a $50 sheepskin cover from Easycare, Inc. for comfort, and maybe some endurance stirrups. Lots of people ride endurance and trail in dressage saddles. World famous John Crandell III rides in a dressage saddle.
Lots of people do endurance in dressage saddles. If it fits your horse and you are comfortable in it, then you’ll be fine. If your horse shows any signs of discomfort from an ill-fitting saddle, it will be compounded during a long ride. I used to do competetive trail (25 miles) in an old, no-name allpurpose saddle and the horse and I were fine.
I hope you enjoy your ride!
My husband trail rides (up to 10 miles) in an old dressage saddle. It fits the horse, and he finds it comfy, and we can’t afford a new saddle…
How far is this ride, and how long do you expect to stay in the saddle?
Yeah I guess I should have mentioned how long the long ride is… around 2,200 miles… from NM to Wash. DC… As much as I love my other saddles, and they work fine for trails usually… I think I really need to buy an endurance saddle for this.
Sounds like a Long Riders Guild type of ride. 
OK – you do seriously need to look for an endurance saddle. I would strongly suggest a really good treeless. If you love your County Competitor dressage saddle (as I loved mine – I put 1,000 AERC miles on my record using that saddle) then you should go with a Sensation saddle – their Dressage Trail model. The panels underneath the saddle are excellent – nice and thick to keep the saddle from pressing on the spine and also give the saddle a nice traditional twist, and you have the ability to change where you hang your stirrups to suit your personal comfort. The saddle even incorporates a special buckle at the bottom of the flap for attaching the stirrups for use on extreme distance riding, or for heavyweight riders. This buckle transfers all the pressure of the stirrups onto a “Y” webbed frame throughout the saddle, rather than limiting the pressure to being across the back.
Outstanding saddle – very hard to tell from a traditional treed at 20 paces – that is tough, stable, and incredibly comfortable. The manufacturer is excellent and will happily do custom work for you to meet your specifications. Saddles are all leather on the top with removable seats. They are made in Canada, and prices are running about $1,000 now.
You could also go with the Barefoot – they are best suited for the very round horse, have a permanent stirrup hanger, and a large front “swell” which houses a removable fiberglass form that lifts the saddle in front to form a partial gullet over the withers. The Barefoot comes in a dressage model that has a smaller swell, and sports more traditional leather. A very comfortable saddle that can do the distance. Runs about $600
If you don’t care about english vs western, you might also look into the Bob Marshall Sports Saddle – the forerunner of the endurance saddles. I tried one once and didn’t like it, so you might get a better description of the saddle from someone who has one and does like it. :winkgrin:
Treeless saddles are a monumentally bad idea for short rides. For long rides they guarantee a crippled horse. And all the anacdote in the world won’t make this reality go away.
Try a new direction. Look at the reproduction McClellan, Whitman, Grimsley, or Universal Pattern (a British offering) saddles. Google any one of them for more information. These are all cavalry saddles, have a long history of use in “long riding” and when properly fitted work quite well. They are also lighter in weight than many current “endurance” saddles.
You might want to try the Long Riders Guild website. They may have some guidance for you.
Good luck in your ride.
G.
Guilherme -
Rarely do I call a person a completely misinformed – but for you, I’ll make an exception. Your comments show how utterly and totally clueless – and dead wrong – you are about treeless saddles.
You want to cripple a horse AND the rider – then use a McClellan. Use any cavalry saddle – they are guaranteed to be possibly the worse torture equipment ever devised – all you have to do is read the old accounts of the Military Horse Masters to get a feel for the horrors these saddles inflicted on the poor horses – massive sores, infected withers – to know the “real” story of these military tacks.
And as far as weight – I checked the weight of a reenactor’s McClellan against my Sensation – that McClellan was a HEAVY sucker while my Sensation weighted in at nothing.
Last year AERC endurance riders logged over 870,000 competition miles – the vast majority doing so in treeless saddles. You obviously don’t ride distance, or endurance. This rider does, and the OP plans to do so. My recommendation to the OP is to explore the treeless for her ride – which is also what you’ll find most endurance riders will suggest.
Opinions are like noses; everyone is entitled to at least one.
I stated mine; you’ve stated yours. Now the OP has at least two points of view.
I also referred the OP to the Long Rider’s Guild where she can get REAL information on real world people who have done what she is considering.
How can anyone argue, intelligently, with such suggestions?
G.
Sensations are not recommended for high withered horses. :no: Or I’d have one. Now that I’ve got an Arabian, I’m hoping to get one. I like that the trail model has stirrup straps that are separated to spread the pressure of the rider’s weight.
LLong, I have a trimming client who did such a ride. She had custom-made saddles for her horses. The only problem is that the custom-made ones only fit your horse at the time they are measured. Changes in fitness levels will affect the shape of the back and hence, saddle fit. I think that is why endurance riders like treeless so much: they change as the horse’s shape changes. You’ve got to be really careful about wither and backbone clearance, or you will cause more soreness than you save.
The Balance saddle people say that saddles should be wide and padded to fit. If you’ve got padding options, you can change your padding system if your horse’s back changes during the course of the ride. Treeless seems a whole lot easier (and cheaper). As a compromise to expensive Balance saddles, Wintecs with adjustable trees would work (set wide with appropriate padding). Again, you could accomodate the changes in your horse’s back that way. I’m not saying I buy their theory, but I wanted to point it out to you.
There are many people who think that treeless do not give the horse’s back enough support, and there are anecdotes both ways. It bears further research.
Just more food for thought and things to consider while making your choices. The longest ride I’ve done is 30 miles in an Abetta western, which hardly qualifies as “long”. The horse finished with a good back and little or no soreness. But day after day after day, who knows how it would have been for the horse?
I referenced the Long Riders Guild. Mr. O’Reilly is a well-spring of information on long riding. The site is a treasure trove of good information.
Go to http://www.thelongridersguild.com/LRG.htm For specific information on saddles click on “Equipment” and go from there.
G.
25 miles a day, almost every day for several months…this is not about speed its about comfort for horse and rider. I like the new Y rigging that Goesthedistance talked about, that would help with pressure problems and is a new feature that not all treeless saddles have. But people have done these rides in everything from western saddles to homemade rigs (including McCellan type saddles). If you are a heavier rider or plan on packing everything you need in some sort of saddlebag system then a better example of types of saddles might come from the folks that do ranch work or extended pack trips on horseback.
Thanks for the advice so far. We’ve (my mom and I) have been in contact with CuChullaine O’Reilly and other long riders. They’ve been really helpful. I just thought I should probably get more advice on saddles since I know practically nothing about the quality of different endurance saddles. So anymore input is welome…
A2 - FYI: Not a dressage saddle – he has a custom semi-treeless hunt seat type saddle that was made in France as an experimental about a million years ago when distance riders were starting to make the move from treed to treeless. The saddle looks like a traditional hunt saddle in the front with the English saddle arch, leather flaps and stirrup bar (supported by a front tree), but the treeless seat was all flocked wool with a synthetic sheepskin cover. One of my 100 mile endurance friends (now deceased) had one of those saddles. She let me try it out once. Incredibly comfortable!!
I’ve researched this a bit and from the info I found, of all the treeless saddles, the only two that haven’t had any pressure problems reported are the Torsion saddles and the Freeform saddles (the proper freeform ones not the copies). From personal experience, my Torsion is fantastic for my TB, who does have reasonable withers. It’s stable and she loves it. It’s not so great on a rounder horse as it rolls a bit. The Freeform saddles aren’t good at all for high withers, but are very stable on a rounder horse. Both were designed with endurance in mind and have been used by endurance riders.
Wintecs are horrid to ride in for a long period of time from the rider’s point of view - I only ever manged about 10 miles in one and that was not fun. With treed I would definately get it made too wide and pad. That’s what we did for a while and it worked really well.
I haven’t ever gone that far, but I put a lot of time into researching saddles when nothing seemed to fit my horse!
This may be your opinion, but you have no facts to back that up, do you?
One of the reasons I switched to treeless was the many many stories I found of endurance riders who do hundreds and thousands of miles treeless. In my research of the saddles though, it’s true that not all treeless saddles fit all horses, and the pad, girth, breatcollar, etc. are all a very important part of the setup too. There’s more to consider than you might initially think of. ANY badly fitting saddle can damage a horse, whether it’s treed or not.
Gothedistance - Thanks for the correction. I was thinking of Stagg Newman, as per this link:
http://www.endurance.net/channels/2007/08/aerc-championship-novice-learning-from.html
He says he rides in used dressage saddles. Still, I think it’s a good indiciation since Stagg has been riding since the 80s and has over 6,000 career miles
I have NEVER seen a so-called “treeless” saddle that effectively distributes rider weight. I’ve researched many, and ridden or sat in four or five offereings over the years; all were wanting in this critical aspect.
The FIRST saddles were treeless; skins or grass mats thrown over the horse’s rump and, later, the back. The Romans (possibly imitating the Partians) developed the first true, rigid tree saddle. They found it enhanced the horse’s utility allowing more rider stability and permitting the horse to go for longer distances without soring the back. Roman cavalry also differed from the “barbarian” cavalries in that the Roman soldier typically had one horse on campaign; the barbarian typically had multiple mounts.
No major horse culture I’m aware of ever continued the use of “treeless” saddles once they were introduced to the rigid tree.
So the Laws of Physics and history are enough fact for me. When somebody else comes up with research that puts my fears for the horse’s back at rest I’ll look at it. Until then I’ll maintain my opinion.
Of course I referred the OP to the Long Riders Guild precisely because there IS no hard evidence, only anacdote and exptrapallation. She’s done that (sounds like on her own; good on her for that). The Guild people know what they are about. Their opinions should carry weight. Have any of you “treeless” backers read the Equipment section on the Guild website?
G.
Endurance Saddles
Our family owns and uses two Bob Marshall Sport Tack treeless endurance saddles. We wouldn’t consider using anything else. Our horses have completed 50 mile endurance rides with horses in outstanding shape. A friend of ours that is in the AERC Hall of Fame uses the same saddle (many years ago he loaned us one of his which is why we bought our first). This gentleman has received many best condition awards on 100 mile rides, as well as being in the top 10 consistently. I don’t know what else to tell you - they work!
I’m not going to debate with your rigid stupidity, G., but, yes, I am very familiar with the Long Rider’s Guild purposes and have read their website cover to cover years ago, and visit it every now and then. Which is why I mentioned it in my first post. I (correctly, of course) assumed the OP had already contacted them considering the type of trip she was planning. I didn’t feel she needed to be told to check out their website. :rolleyes:
If your expertise comes from merely from reading the LRG website, you are sorely in need of some serious updating. Much of what is written on the LRG website is OLD information that predated the current offerings of treeless available. Actually, at the time the website was designed there were virtually no treeless saddles being marketed to do distance. Riders used whatever they had, and if it caused problems they discarded and found something different.
I’ve also HAVE met (separately) 2 long distance riders – one doing a south-to-north ride, and one doing an west-to-east ride. It was very interesting listening to the problems they encountered with shoeing and saddles – the two biggest issues outside the “lodging for the night” situations. One started with a treed saddle, and it sored her horse after so many miles that she almost had to quit her ride. She was about 1/2 way through her ride when I met her and I noticed she was using a BMSS – she said she had replaced the treed saddle with a borrowed BMSS and was so happy with it that she was keeping it for the rest of her ride, and was going to purchase one as her permanent saddle.
The other was using an extremely heavy Western saddle that probably weighed more than she did. She was riding a huge tank of a short Mustang that weighed more than the car of the same name, and was rounder than a 500 gallon drum with more fat on him than a show beef steer. She had only just begun her journey (was into the 3rd week). Guess it was still working for the both of them… at that point. Her biggest issue was using hoof boots. A whole other story.
