I am sorry if dressagists have turned you against Dressage.
Dressage means training and as instructors we are taught to love all horses and train to what that horse can do, not to what Olympic horses can do.
I watched a reiner who gave a demonstration on how to teach a horse to spin. He did it day by day in walk and to me that is training and that is dressage!!! 
I just have to chuckle at this because you are trying to call someone out on what exactly it is that you do. 
I hope my message wasnāt interpreted as me thinking ācompetitive dressageā is the be all-end all. My criticism of WD is not that-
Rather then having educated judges from western disciplines who understand the benefit of progressive training, it is educated dressage judges who are not judging āregular dressageā and are a asked to judge something that- on paper, is geared towards western riders & western horses who may not participate in or limit themselves to western type events. It should have western judges who understand dressage, or dressage judges educated in western disciplines.
Then there is the observation (at least in my local scene) where the discipline seems to attract āEnglishā riders- those who school, train & show what ever breed of horse they may have, in English disciplines (including straight dressage), but who decide theyāll put on a different set of tack and play āwesternā¦dressageā because their horse isnāt really ādressageyā anyway.
I agree that dressage benefits all horses- which is why I did schooling shows with my old paint mare (NOT a typical stock horse but a far scream from ādressageyā), thatās why I do it with my Canadian mare as our discipline of choice (sheās good, weāll find out just how far talent & training can take us), and thatās why I school our quarterhorse with the same basics as any other low level dressage horse (Stereotypical western stock horse)ā¦ It doesnāt deserve to be made into a joke.
As for the curb bit topicā¦ Anyone who does dressage knows thereās degrees of progression (ending with a responsive, athletic horse that is adjustable and shows self carriage), and anyone who trains a western horse knows that there are also degrees of progression (ending with a responsive, athletic horse that is adjustable and shows self carriage). If the curb bit in western riding- like a double bridle in dressage, is worn by a horse AND rider that are educated enough to use that piece of equipment, then it SHOULD raise eyebrows that the organization that offers competitions that demonstrate training would permit a curb bit to be used with two hands, at the most basic of levels.
Pocket Pony, did you get a good chuckle with this also, and the reason I took offense. Doesnāt sound judgmental at all, does it? I might have strong ideas, but I have yet to tell someone that they are showing their ignorance!
Bev:
Wow, KiloBright. Sorry to say that your ignorance becomes more glaring with each post. And thatās a shame, you seem well intentioned but just donāt know what you donāt know.
Donāt know how this thread got so off track, when all I was opposed to, far as WD, is showing a horse two handed, with contact on a curb bit
If you wish to apply the term.western, ride with a stock saddle and a western curb, then ride that discipline as per rules concerning that bit. I donāt care if the age requirement is waived
If you have a point that you donāt agree with, give me facts, not rhetoric, and Iām happy to do the same, okay P.P.?
For those that wish to try WD, go for it, I would just love to see if two hands are used, they are used with a snaffle
Okay, Iām done with this topic, and any tangents that resulted and have in no way meant to discourage anyone from trying WD.
[QUOTE=froglander;7938994]
Coming to this thread late and I havenāt read all the posts, just kinda skimmed.
But there are also two āversionsā for lack of a better word.
There is Western Dressage via the Western Dressage Association of America (http://www.westerndressageassociation.org/) and then Cowboy Dressage via Eitan Beth-Halachmy (www.cowboydressage.com).
I remember reading something on what used to be a āgroup member organizationā site for WDAA that decided it did not match their philosophy and that they are going the Cowboy Dressage route instead.
Darn it, found the group that had gone from WD to CD, but I canāt find the article where theyād said /why/ as Iād thought it kind of explained the difference interestingly/well http://wisconsincowboydressage.org/[/QUOTE]
The WDAA folks and Beth-Halachmy are separate disciplinesā at least those interested in marketing their new discipline will tell you. Here in Oregon-- where everyone is nice-- we are inclusive and our organization has both WD and CD in it.
I saw Beth-Halachmy give a demo/clinic at a regional horse expo up here. I liked what he has to say more than I had planned to. But I also wonāt be signing over my property to the Church of Cowboy Dressage and moving to Guyana, if you get the reference.
Explaining the differences between WD and CD is another topic for another threadā¦. if yāall care to go there. And Iām not sure Iām qualified to distinguish them. A few of hallmarks of Beth-Halachmyās system that have no counterpart in WD are
Talk of CD being a ālifestyleā-- in the sense that the discipline is meant to be as much about what Iād all the pedagogy of horse training or the āhowā to train your horse (and care expressly about the relaxation of his mind), as getting this or that maneuver done.
There are in-hand divisions that look like simple, pole-based obstacle courses.
The tests and ring do include polesā some octagons, some cavaletti, I think-- and tests that require doing things with them.
CD has Beth-Halachmy at its head. WDAA, of course, has a board of directors but no āone guyā guru. Iām sure Beth-Halachmy is training acolytes; heās not a young guy. Iād guess, too, that the group who organized WDAA didnāt want to share power with a guy who wanted to put such a strong stamp on things. Of course, here in Oregon, we are so far removed from those politics that we seem to get along with our combined organization.
[QUOTE=KIloBright;7941850]
Donāt know how this thread got so off track, when all I was opposed to, far as WD, is showing a horse two handed, with contact on a curb bit
If you wish to apply the term.western, ride with a stock saddle and a western curb, then ride that discipline as per rules concerning that bit. I donāt care if the age requirement is waived
If you have a point that you donāt agree with, give me facts, not rhetoric, and Iām happy to do the same, okay P.P.?
For those that wish to try WD, go for it,
I would just love to see if two hands are used, they are used with a snaffle
Okay, Iām done with this topic, and any tangents that resulted and have in no way meant to discourage anyone from trying WD.[/QUOTE]
You might be surprised to know that I wholeheartedly agree with your stance on the rules about bitting in this new sport.
I just find it humorous that you try to tell someone that they are not open for discussion, yet as far as I can see your posts are not much about discussion and asking questions but rather telling how it is done, how it should be done, how it has always been done, whatever.
Oh, and how youāre supposedly done with the thread, but you keep coming back to say āand another thing!ā :winkgrin:
Well, yes here I am again, as I was accused of not responding to a thread, so am a bit gun shy on that point also
I will try to mend my ways , if I come across as being too closed minded and not diplomatic enough.
I find those of us that are passionate about horses, often do come on as being too opinionated, and if that is the case, I will try to mend my ways
I have been around horses long enough to know that horses are a lifetime of learning, for all of us, myself included.
At the same time, being accused of not knowing what I was talking about, did bring my darker side out We are all human, after all!
[QUOTE=KIloBright;7945308]
Well, yes here I am again, as I was accused of not responding to a thread, [/QUOTE]
Well it wasnāt an accusation, it was an observation, and you still havenāt responded to the particular thread in question, but you know, we all have the right to post, or notā¦
[QUOTE=Beverley;7946057]
Well it wasnāt an accusation, it was an observation, and you still havenāt responded to the particular thread in question, but you know, we all have the right to post, or notā¦[/QUOTE]
Very true.
If I had a signature, I would like to ask for permission to use that.
Oh, sure, go for it.
[QUOTE=KIloBright;7920687]
Ride with a snaffle and two hands.
I just hate seeing western dressage riders,allowed two hands on a curb and contact
I see it as a class that allows people to ride 'dressage; in a western saddle, on a horse not soild on guiding and rating off of a loose indirect rein.
If you want to ride dressage, then slap on that English saddle and ride dressage. JMO! At least then, if a curb is used, it is in conjunction with a double bridle
Maybe , we need an English reining class![/QUOTE]
Well in NZ they are introducing āworking equitationā basically trail riding comps but in a dressage saddle, it is judged a bit like dressage but you are also judged on speed at the same time so a bit of a compromise.
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