English Rider to Western Rider Transition

[Fly]

My best friend, who learned to ride strictly english style, bought a project horse from me about a year ago. I generally train/ride my horses in soley western style, unless the new owner wants the horse to be used in the english style, then I will teach the horse the different contact, ect.

Well this 3 year old mare is, if I do say so myself, one of the better project horses that I have taken on. She is soft, supple and sensitive with the right rider. She is mostly leg/vocal cued, so you could more or less set the reins down on her neck and ride with just your legs. And because the riders in this area ride mostly western style (LOTS of trail riding and barrel racers) I had never introduced her to any English type riding. She has performance/barrel lines and is super smart.

This mare is also very confused with my friend on her. I often see my friend pulling on her face to get her to slow down, but at the same time, she is riding leg-on, which is asking the mare to go forward. Because of this, the mare has developed a hard mouth. She will run through the D-ring snaffle if you ride with your hands at all.
They just moved back to the area, and are boarding the mare on my pasture, where I have pretty good access to watching her ride the mare.
My friend has given me the go-ahead to take her out and ride her and work with her whenever, which is awesome, cause I enjoy riding horses I have trained. But it is generally very hard for me to put work into her, and then watch my friend get on and ride her completely different from me.
I have tried to offer her insight and give her tips, which she more or less throws back in my face . Her husband is a great rider, but he also needs work on not balancing on the mare’s face.

When my friend rides my gelding, she doesn’t ride him rough like she does with her mare, because she doesn’t want to wreck my horse…

How can I talk to my friend about relaxing and riding her mare right, rather than just get on and ride like she is ready to jump the corral panels??

[Bluey]

Make a video and then watch it with her, explaining where she can do different things where there are problems showing up?

[RPM]

Has your friend or her husband actually taken any lessons with a riding instructor?

You say they ride “English.” What exactly do you mean by that? Do they do dressage, or hunt seat, or saddle seat? I am assuming they ride hunt seat because you mention the D-ring snaffle, but I would like more info on that.

What do you mean by “pulling on the mare’s face”? Do you mean actually pulling on the reins (no properly trained rider would do that), or do you mean she is riding the mare on the bit, and keeping her correctly between her seat/leg and hands?

If she and hubby are actually balancing with the reins, then neither one of them is a great rider. If however they are riding the mare on contact, they could be good riders.

It sounds to me like a possible situation of cross-communication. You are offering tips and insight about western riding (trail? barrels?) and this woman is retorting with the way she was taught to ride (if she was ever taught).

Do you ride barrels? Trail? Both? Another western discipline?

There are probably as many “English” disciplines as western ones, and all of them are a bit different, but correct, centered riding is across all disciplines regardless of tack used.

So we really need more info from you before we can respond helpfully.

I have a friend who does both barrels and western dressage with her QH; neither she nor he has any problems switching back and forth.

[Fly]

My freind took lessons as a youngster, and just recently decided to get back into riding. Her husband has never taken lessons, he just gets on and rides. He has a natural seat, so he thinks he’s a better rider than everyone else.

I’m not entirely sure the term of the style of english she took lessons in. I know she did jumping with the horse she took lessons on. As far as pulling on the mare’s face, I mean pulling on the reins. Yanking when she doesn’t stop, or holding the reins short when trotting.
Maybe she is attempting to ride the mare on the bit, but the mare doesn’t understand that kind of contact??

Usually when I offer insight, it is mostly just for trail riding. I have done games and trail on horses, but my main focus when riding was Western Pleasure.

Bluey, that is a good idea…

[RPM]

I agree that Bluey’s idea sounds good.

Originally posted by Fly:

How can I talk to my friend about relaxing and riding her mare right, rather than just get on and ride like she is ready to jump the corral panels??

Very diplomatically! Easier said than done, I know. She doesn’t sound like she’s interested in learning anything you can teach her. But maybe if you don’t phrase it as “riding her mare RIGHT,” then she won’t get as defensive, since maybe when you try to tell her how to ride her mare RIGHT, she hears “You’re riding her WRONG.” That’s gonna make anyone defensive. Even though it sounds to me like she IS riding wrong, and so is her husband. I don’t think he has a natural seat; if he’s hanging on the reins he doesn’t have an independent seat, and although he may have some natural talent, if he doesn’t know what he’s doing he isn’t a great rider or even a good one. And I know it totally sucks to see someone giving a bad ride to a horse you used to own.

Is there a good hunt seat trainer near you that your friend could do lessons with to learn how to ride properly the way she wants to? Riding hunt seat (I’m assuming hunt seat since you say she used to jump) is very different from setting the reins down on the horse’s neck and riding just off your seat and leg. Way back when I was taught hunt seat we were taught to shorten our reins to trot, but we were NOT taught to pull on the reins!

Is she interested in taking any lessons at all, with any trainer?

[Training_Cupid]

Your friend is letting you ride her horse, not paying you to train. It spunds to me like you riding the horse is just causing more confusion and frustration than is worthwhile. Bottom line, she can ride her horse however she sees fit; whether her riding is just a different style or flat out wrong is irrelevant. Sorry, but I’d say leave her alone and not try to help.

[NoSuchPerson]

Buy the horse back from your friend and never sell her another horse unless she takes some lessons and learns to ride properly?

Bluey’s video suggestion is probably the most likely to have any success at all.

But, bottom line, if your friend isn’t receptive to your input, you’ve got no choice but to do what TrainingCupid said - leave her alone and stop trying to help.

For me, this kind of thing would really taint my friendship with this person.

[Scribbler]

I rode mostly Western as a kid, came back to riding as an adult taking English lessons, and have watched a wide variety of riding skills over the years.

The problem is that your friend is riding badly, period. She is the English equivalent of the “weekend cowboy” Western rider who goes haring all over the place hauling on a giant curb bit.

I think you need to convince her that making the transition from Western to English requires more training than just changing up the bits, and get her to a decent English style instructor/trainer, who will give her some lessons on the longe line and help her develop an independent seat. Discipline doesn’t matter since introductory flat work is similar (or should be) in both jumping and dressage.

Poor horse.

BTW, my classical dressage friends recently acquired a couple of nicely-started young western horses, and they love them. They aren’t finding the transition difficult as many of the principles are the same, and they have a methodology for introducing the horse to the bit and establishing contact gradually.

[CHT]

It is often easier to train the horse for the rider, than to train the rider for the horse.

Teach the mare about contact.

[stb]

Well, there’s contact, and there is balancing on the reins and jerking. Sounds like your friend doesn’t know how to ride and really isn’t interested in learning. Not much you can do about it now, since you sold her the horse.

Riding on contact, properly done, is not going to make the horse unhappy. My horse is an ex goat roper who never had an English rig on him in his life. I’m riding him now in a dressage saddle with a very mild French link bit and soft, following contact. He’s a happy camper, he actually seems to enjoy it more than being ridden Western.