Entering a training program, what should I know or ask?

[coffeehag]

For the first time in my life, I can afford to really put some money into myself and my horse, and I’m thinking of moving us into a training program. This is all very new to me, so really looking for advice on what I should look for in a program, general watch-outs, or if there’s anything I should ask.

The backstory here is that I have a 5 year old OTTB who is wonderful in so many ways, but is still a baby. My personal goals is to have a happy, confident horse (and me as a rider) and do some Hunter/Jumper classes. While my OTTB is very brave and willing, as an adult amateur, I want to make sure I set him up for success and educate him well, and I know I have some holes in my education and I want to avoid that with my OTTB.

Anyway, I’ve found a program that I really like–board and a customized training program is included, typically 3-4 rides/training sessions including a trainer riding and lessons for myself. The head trainer has worked with a lot of OTTBs and loves them, and believes in taking your time and developing the horse, which I really believe in.

That being said, I’m new to this whole program thing, and want to make sure I ask the right questions before fully committing. Horses are fed 3x/day, get daily turnout (weather permitting, although it is usually ~4 hours/day), and there is no showing requirement.

I’m paying a visit to the stable soon, but have met the trainer before at an event and really liked them. When I go out, I’ll be viewing the facilities and watching a lesson (or 2!). What should I ask about as I go?

Thank you so much for any advice/tips, I’m really excited at the direction this could take me, my horse, and my riding!

[OnDeck]

This sounds exciting! I’m afraid you may get some horror stories and I hope you don’t let them scare you away. The majority of training arrangements work out juts fine, even if they are not perfect.

It sounds like you’re somewhat familiar with the trainer which is a great start. Of course you want to make sure the horses look happy and well taken care of and the facility is safe. I find a look in the tack room quite telling, if I see that the majority of bridles are sporting some serious hardware that indicates a gap in knowledge of the trainer.

Some questions to ask:

• What does “weather permitting” mean in regards to turnout? This could mean “as long as there’s not a tornado coming straight for us the horses are going out” to “horses cannot go out if there’s any snow on the ground or if it’s rained within the last 4 days”
• Are you able to jump outside of lessons? Are there barn hours and do they work with your schedule?
• Who does the riding? Always the trainer? Trainer plus assistant and/or working students? Can you come watch?
• What are her show fees? Ask for a price sheet including things like her fees for show training, show rides, etc. Is day care and/or grooming mandatory? If not mandatory - do they leave for shows early in the week so will you need to use this service anyway to accommodate your schedule?
• Is the trainer often away at shows, who is available to ride and teach when she’s gone?
• What shows does she go to? Are these shows that suit you both financially and logistically?
• Are there any extra charges? Sometimes things like blanket changes, holding for vet/farrier, or putting on boots for turnout can be extra monthly charges.
• Can you use your own farrier? If no, how often does he come and how much does he charge?
• What does she feed? Does she buy timothy, alfalfa, both?

[JenEM]

Definitely ask about vet and farrier–who do they use, can you use your own, do they hold, is there a charge for holding etc.

Ask about feed–what do they feed, and what flexibility is there to the program? IE, do they just use one brand and are happy to get whatever Purina (for example) feed you want, or are you given a choice of two grains and that’s it? Take a look at the hay.

Ask about hours, which is something I never thought much about until I was looking at an otherwise excellent sounding facility…that closed at 7PM. As a working adult, that was a dealbreaker for me.

Are the lessons/training rides interchangable? Can you do two lessons and one training ride since you’re off work for the week, and then have Trainer do three training rides the next because things are crazy at work?

GET A RATE SHEET.

[Willesdon]

This is a service you are buying. Remove the word “horse” from any of your thought processes and consider how you would treat e.g. gym membership, car rental or hiring a lawyer.

Get full information on all costs and extras so they don’t unexpectedly appear on your bill. $ to collect a horse from a paddock, $ to change a rug, $ to hold a horse for a vet all soon mount up. Find out what is definitely built into the cost and what is definitely excluded. It might alter your opinion about the real cost. (Car hire analogy works here!).

Get a signed contract, including clear terms for your departure and disclosure if the trainer expects to profit in a future sale of the horse. But it does seem to me that a professional barn should be offering you a contract to sign because it actually protects them from bad clients. A spoken agreement isn’t worth the paper it’s written on.

Enquire about their insurance cover for staff, horse, tack, other barn users. You might end up liable for someone else’s disaster.

Enquire about staff turnover. Happy staff = happy horses.

[TheJenners]

@OnDeck

• What does “weather permitting” mean in regards to turnout? This could mean “as long as there’s not a tornado coming straight for us the horses are going out” to “horses cannot go out if there’s any snow on the ground or if it’s rained within the last 4 days”
• Are you able to jump outside of lessons? Are there barn hours and do they work with your schedule?
• Who does the riding? Always the trainer? Trainer plus assistant and/or working students? Can you come watch?
• What are her show fees? Ask for a price sheet including things like her fees for show training, show rides, etc. Is day care and/or grooming mandatory? If not mandatory - do they leave for shows early in the week so will you need to use this service anyway to accommodate your schedule?
• Is the trainer often away at shows, who is available to ride and teach when she’s gone?
• What shows does she go to? Are these shows that suit you both financially and logistically?
• Are there any extra charges? Sometimes things like blanket changes, holding for vet/farrier, or putting on boots for turnout can be extra monthly charges.
• Can you use your own farrier? If no, how often does he come and how much does he charge?
• What does she feed? Does she buy timothy, alfalfa, both?

This a great list and @JenEM added the two I would add, which is the question about vet and farrier and what the farm feeds/is included. For t/o, I’d definitely ask if the “weather permitting” is meant for the horse or for the ground, ie will the horse just not go out in the rain v will the horse not go out when it isn’t raining but has been, meaning it might make mud.

[stargzng386]

How many hours of turnout is your horse used too now? Would 4 hours be enough for your horse to be happy and healthy? If they’re currently out 24/7 I would try to look for a program with more turnout. If you decide that the shorter turnout is ok then how much hay are the horses getting in the stall? Can slow feed hay nets be used? Adding in the cost of ulcer treatment and dealing with ulcer behaviors could totally blow the benefits of training away.

[punchy]

I agree it’s good to ask questions and these are all good questions. But, also don’t underestimate the power of your own observations. So, for turnout: do you see any horses out? If it’s been wet, do you see lots of muddy hoof prints? In general, the worse the paddocks look the more they are used. Walk around the barn: do the horses seem happy and content, or are they kicking the walls, chewing the wood, and trying to kill their neighbors?

I once stood next to a BO who was telling me she feeds free choice hay, as we looked at the horses in the stalls staring back at us…with not a wisp of hay among them. Sometimes, an answer you get may not be an intent to deceive, but someone who has a rosier picture of what they do than the reality indicates.

[trubandloki]

@punchy

So, for turnout: do you see any horses out? If it’s been wet, do you see lots of muddy hoof prints? In general, the worse the paddocks look the more they are used.

Or, it could mean that they are well made and properly maintained footing.

[Impractical_Horsewoman]

Everyone has put together a great list, but one thing I’d check on is how many horses, full stop, are at the facility, relative to the amount of paddock space and stalls (and staff). Another reason for 4 hours of turnout might be that horses are rotated in and out of the same paddocks (i.e., a night and day shift). Which is fine, but can also mean, depending on the weather, that some horses get shortchanged of turnout.

Not to sound paranoid, but always keep your eyes open. I’ve been at barns I thought were wonderful, and the owner put up a great front and said all the right things, and the other people at the facility seemed very enthusiastic. Then a few weeks in, the crazy started to seep out. I think most sensible people are pretty good about spotting obvious red flags, but there are also many places that are good about keeping those red flags in a dusty cupboard, until someone has signed up and in.

[Halternatively]

You are getting excellent advice here. I would add to your list of questions:

• can you choose between training rides and lessons or is that set by the trainer?
• what happens if your horse is injured? Do you have to pay full training board? Is there ‘injury board’? What are the parameters for it - who determines when the horse goes back to work, and what is “work”? Hand walking, tack walking? (I may have has a horse or three injured while in these programs.)
• Do you meet with the trainer periodically to set goals and milestones?

Best of luck, OP!

[Arelle]

I think it really comes down to - think of everything you do on a daily/weekly/monthly basis and ask how those things are handled moving forward. What do you want? What do you not want?

For example, my horses in full training are basically given an open credit card as long as I am asked and approve. Chiropractor is coming, would you like him to visit Dobbin? Sure! We noticed Dobbin licking the walls and would like to order him a mineral lick tub, is that okay? Absolutely. The vet is coming and we would like to take a set of xrays on his feet to ensure we’re shoeing him to the best of our ability, are you okay with that? Yup!

I’ve been in programs where the charges appear afterwards on my bill and I am NOT happy about it. But, any “program” is going to have good and bad - it’s really just what YOU personally can handle. I think about it like my job - are there some aspects that are annoying and I don’t want to do? 100%. Overall, am I happy and enjoy going to the office each morning? 100%.

[findeight]

Most experienced boarders can tell in 10 minutes if a barn is acceptable. All it takes is eyes, ears and nose. If it doesn’t seem right? It likely not. Note I did not mention mouth, thats best kept closed if you are on an observation visit.

Try to observe lessons and some training rides. If you have questions, save them for a sit down contract review with BM or trainer or whoever presents and gets the contract signed. Avoid asking other random people random questions or you are going to get random answers that may not be correct.

Request a printed rate sheet listing all services and prices and be sure the board and training package contract lists all included services. Including show fees.

Remember you ain’t got a thing if it ain’t in writing. Don’t get snowed by verbal promises or “don’t worry, we take care of all that”. IME, maybe they do, maybe they don’t and you are screwed. Remember if its not in the contract they don’t have to.

Most common abuse in any type training barn is billing client for training rides then giving and charging a lesson fee to another client for the same ride. Thats easier to keep track of in barns that charge a la carte and provide an itemized bill monthly. Package deals seem more vulnerable to trainer greed surpassing best interest of clients.

Depending on number of horses and lessons, most trainers cannot seriously school all client horses all morning then teach all afternoon plus keep those who want to go horse show weekends happy. Somebody besides head trainer is going to sometimes ride your horse. Be sure to ask who and take the time to meet them and watch them ride. Be clear no random riders are involved.

Speaking of getting it in writing, good idea to write “Dobbin is not to be used as a mount in lessons or any other charged service by any rider other then owner named in this contract without specic consent of owner”. Write it in on the bottom each side must initial before any copies are made.

Once you join the barn, don’t always come on the same days and times or when schedules on the trainig board. Don’t be afraid to drop by some weekday morning to retrieve an item in your trunk or some afternoon with lots of lessons just to visit your horse. Only takes a couple of minutes every few weeks. Will either reassure you or reveal something you hoped you wouldn’t see. Don’t be a pest or sneak around, just drop in to share some carrots or drop off a new or recently cleaned piece of tack. Let them do their job on their side and trust. But VERIFY.