Entirely illogical jumping confidence issues

[trakehners]

I spent several years in high school/college riding with a hunter trainer because she was what I had access to at the time. She majorly overfaced me jumping before I wised up to a whole bunch of not-great things about that situation and left (physically I could handle it but I was mentally not there, I had a (non-jumping) riding accident as a kid that left me quite traumatized and was still building my confidence back up while jumping when she decided it would be a great idea to throw me over 3’6” fences).

Fast forward six and a half years and I’m back with my childhood trainer who has run at the 5* level and is a legend who has lived up to every expectation that fourteen-year-old me built up in her mind, but we have a problem: I cannot get out of my own brain when I’m show jumping. It doesn’t matter how much I trust her, my brain doesn’t trust itself and I get us backward into everything. I’m also on a green horse who has finally been properly rideable for the last eight months after four years of medical issues that got in our way, so it’s kind of the blind leading the blind here (he is, however, a saint who never holds it against me when I bury us into fences repeatedly). My trainer and I have repeatedly discussed how I’m essentially having to relearn how to ride completely because of everything I have had to deal with both alone and since I bought him, so that’s the background.

Now for the twist: I don’t have this problem when I run XC. You can point me at a Novice fence and I won’t think about it, I’ll just go and it rides fine (my horse is also a monster on XC who never looks at anything). My theory on this is that said hunter trainer refused to go anywhere near a XC course so she never had the opportunity to ruin it for me and my brain is still rocking along like the overconfident 13yo that I used to be. That confidence disappears as soon as you put me in a ring with fences that fall down, because that makes sense.

Currently I’m planning to do the following: Pivo my rides so I can watch them back and see that nothing is as fast as it feels in the hopes of convincing my brain that we aren’t out of control, listen to music while I ride til I find the right song for the right canter pace (I do this when I run and it helps me a lot so thinking it might help in the saddle too), and borrow the seasoned jumper that a currently out-of-commission boarder owns for a few lessons so that I can focus on myself for a little while and get my eye back over fences of actual substance. My trainer also wants to free-jump my horse a bunch over the winter so that he can learn to trust his own feet without me getting in the way.

Has anyone ever had this experience and have any tips on how you dealt with it? Normally I’d subscribe to the “keep it little til you’re bored and then move up” mantra but we can’t live at 2’3” forever because I don’t care about it and he doesn’t have to actually try so the problem doesn’t exist. Same thing with poles on the ground. I nail those distances every time. My horse has Prelim scope at minimum in him per my trainer and I have no desire to live at Starter or BN forever (I want to run Training one day, she can take him Prelim lol) but I’m going to be stuck there if I can’t get past this show jumping thing. I should also note I lesson weekly (hoping to make it 2x sooner rather than later) and usually ride 3-4x outside of that, so it isn’t an issue of me just not riding and I can flat myself just fine.

Any advice or commiseration is appreciated (beyond just doing the darn thing until I get over it because I know that’s really what it boils down to, I’d just like to make it a little easier if I can). I’ll have been riding for twenty years in January and am decidedly too hard on myself about this because I feel like I should be much farther along at this point, which I know does me no good and is probably contributing to the problem. I also feel bad that my trainer has to clean up somebody else’s mess because I know it’s what I pay her for but I am not making it easy for her

Many thanks in advance.

[Highflyer1]

Go do some jumper, or even hunter shows. Jump lots of small courses at small shows where it doesn’t matter. Just get in the ring and do it. And maybe try talking to a sports psychologist too.

[Xanthoria]

What is it about xc that’s easier? For me, it’s the speed and space - it’s relatively easy to create lots of impulsion and gung-ho attitude when you’re galloping across a field. Less so in a small arena where all the turns can throw you off your game.

What helped me was always starting really small, even if we planned to jump 3’6" in a lesson, always start with cross rails and work your way up. And also as @Highflyer1 says, schooling shows to give loads of repetition at small heights. Grids will help too - the work of figuring out direction and strides is all taken care of.

[pony_grandma]

Gymnastics (grids). rinse repeat. That ingrained striding, balance to know when it feels right. The once you’re in you are forward! Then add a one or two stride at the end for a taller or wider set.

Both horse and rider get it. then they end up together.

[Willesdon]

I love XC jumping: I hate SJ jumping. Running XC I can set the direction, speed, rhythm, balance and leave the horse to jump over the obstacles. In an arena the jumps come up too fast and the corners are too tight and HELP!! I just panic. For absolutely no reason. Things that help are:
a neck strap, with just a finger tucked under this is sufficient to give me a mental seatbelt;
counting my canter - not the stride - because then I trust the horse to jump without my interference;
looking where I’m going - which is obvious but I find does take some work to find the right place to look (not too far, not to near);
not stressing about counting strides because at the lowly level where I jump, strides really are not so important.

Just thought to add, jumping from a walk is highly informative about speed and impulsion.

[evtrmom]

I think poles on the ground work really well. You can lengthen and shorten your stride, practice pace etc with just poles on the ground, really good exercises without height.

counting down strides out loud to the pole will help your eye too.

good luck, be patient and kind with yourself

[Arzny]

I had my confidence destroyed by a trainer. I was circling .85 fences on a 1.40 horse and all around miserable. What helped me was changing my attitude. I told myself no matter the distance, canter etc I was going to the fence. And I was going to do it going forward, with my hands forward. It’s really hard and you have a few ugly jumps. But gradually I was able to retrain my brain. This has actually translated well in the show ring and also fixed a lifelong pulling issue.

I’m sorry you’re going through it. It’s tough.

[chocolate_chip_in]

I can be a neurotic mess about jumping because of my own baggage, and your current plan sounds like basically what I’d do. I wish I’d found a magic bullet, but there’s no way to get through it other than continuing to practice. I do strongly second your plan to get on a different horse for a bit, and would +1 the suggestion to start exploring sports psychology if you haven’t already. I listen to a lot of podcasts where people talk about the value of failure as an athlete, and it does help quiet the little voices when I want to rip myself to shreds for not having the perfect turn, or the perfect placement, or oops I didn’t half halt strongly enough going into the combination and we got buried to the out, etc. I also found it weirdly therapeutic to watch all of the incredible riders at the Olympics and my local event offering through Advanced, burying their horses to jumps and taking flyers and crashing through rails and effing up turns…if they aren’t riding perfectly, why the F does my brain think I need to ride perfectly? Or that that’s even something that I can achieve?

One question: why can’t you stay at 2’3/2’6 until you’re bored? “Until you’re bored and find it easy” is not the same as “forever.” It sounds like you’re both set at poles and 2’3, how about 2’6? Your horse doesn’t care about moving up the levels and has no idea what Prelim is or why he should care to run it. If you articulate in your OP that you know you’re too hard on yourself about this issue because you feel like you should be farther along, and then try to discount a proven solution to the problem because it would (for now) keep you at the level where it sounds like you’re ready to be…well…

Look, I’m no riding or training genius, and I think anyone else on this thread is probably more qualified to speak to the riding side of things. But I have to work SO freaking hard on my mental game every time I point my (scopey, talented, brave, forgiving, saint of a) pony at more than a crossrail. And there is really something to be said for working out your issues at a level where the horse can bail you out of any pickles that you put yourselves in.

In closing, I thought I was going to be at 2’3 forever and was fine with that; I have no aspirations of climbing the levels, just improving my skills and becoming the rider my sainted pony deserves. But a couple months ago I did start wondering to myself what else we had to learn at 2’3, and right around then my trainer declared we were moving up to 2’6. We even popped a couple of Novice jumps the last time we schooled XC. I would have laughed in your face if you’d told me this time last year that I’d voluntarily jump a Novice fence. We didn’t get there by rushing just to check a box of “must school Novice by September 2024,” though…we got there by putting in the time at lower heights to set us up for success. (By “us” I mean “me,” since the pony could cruise around a Novice horse trial with my trainer tomorrow.) And yes we are debuting at Starter for our first three phase together later this month (eek!) anyway, because everyone involved wants us to have a fun, safe, and successful first outing instead of gunning for BN for the sake of being able to say we ran BN.

IDK. This has turned into a bit of a stream of consciousness ramble, so I hope you’ll take whatever is helpful, and leave the rest. If you find a magic bullet for fixing the trauma and the fear and the baggage and allowing yourself to give your horse a perfect ride every time you step into the irons, please share it.

[dmveventer]

First off, give yourself a little more credit. Your nerves are not “entirely illogical” - jumping comes with risk, jumping a green horse comes with more risk, and jumping a green horse as a nervous rider even more. Your brain is not entirely wrong to say “hey, maybe this isn’t such a great idea.” I find acknowledging that nerves serve a purpose instead of beating myself up over it helps me accept the feeling and move forward anyway. I know it sounds cheesy but negative self-talk has been shown to tangibly impact performance, so be kinder to yourself and give yourself credit for showing up and putting in the work.

@trakehners

Normally I’d subscribe to the “keep it little til you’re bored and then move up” mantra but we can’t live at 2’3” forever because I don’t care about it and he doesn’t have to actually try so the problem doesn’t exist.

Sorry, but this is the way. There’s no magic trick to suddenly have confidence, you just have to put in the work. Find the height where you just start to get a little nervous and hang out there. Maybe go a little higher with single fences and a little lower with trickier combos until your threshold starts to creep up. Work up the height in gymnastics where you don’t have to worry about anything other than coming into the line straight and going with it. If you get on and either of you are having an off day, just back off a bit - don’t jeopardize your hard-earned confidence by trying to rush.

Also address any holes in your horse’s training. Your nerves may be telling you there’s something not right because there IS something not right. If he’s really only been going for 8 months it’s entirely possible he isn’t ready to move up in height. I found my confidence jumping my green horse really started to improve when our flatwork got better and he could actually hold a somewhat balanced canter and respond to my half-halts. Before that of course it was unsettling, we weren’t totally balanced and there wasn’t that much I could do about it while he figured things out. We just kept the jumps small and kept working on improving the canter. It can take a while but it’s not something that can be rushed.

I also agree with @Xanthoria that your apparent lack of issues x-country is probably because it’s easier to build up enough pace out in the open, and you aren’t dealing with turns or combinations that highlight any flaws in your canter. It’s also entirely possible that you’re micromanaging more in the ring and picking away at your impulsion so you have nothing left when you get to the fence, which is a terrible feeling and will just reinforce your nerves. You could try setting up some jumps in a field at home to meet in the middle, and just practicing letting go more in the ring over smaller jumps while you get comfortable with the feeling.

Good luck OP! Fellow nervous ammys everywhere are rooting for you

[Impractical_Horsewoman]

@chocolate_chip_in

One question: why can’t you stay at 2’3/2’6 until you’re bored? “Until you’re bored and find it easy” is not the same as “forever.” It sounds like you’re both set at poles and 2’3, how about 2’6? Your horse doesn’t care about moving up the levels and has no idea what Prelim is or why he should care to run it.

Yes! It sounds like right now you feel that because you can’t do something right now on this horse, it means “forever.” Instead of focusing on height, why not focus on getting really good at what you can do, until you are truly bored (which it doesn’t sound like you’re quite at) and then incrementally raise the fence height. Also, even a 2’3" course can be very technically difficult. It’s not like you can’t practice other things.

[floppyammy]

Another suggestion - try EMDR therapy. I was skeptical but it is miraculous. I was sick with fear riding down to a crossrail and within 4 sessions was comfortably getting on strange horses and back jumping at the height I had been, prior to some bad experiences.

[luvmyhackney]

EMDR therapy, Natalie Hummel has some great podcasts that might be helpful, plus visualization exercises focused on riding the perfect jump.

All have been helpful to me and I’m total chicken shit.

[Small_Change]

Is your horse solid enough that you can distract yourself with something else in front of the fences that stops you from pulling? I had an awful time learning to sit quietly in front of the fence after riding a HOT jumper who would make a bid to a fence no matter what I did in the saddle. My mantra on my (ridable) horse that came next was to set up the canter before my turn, then as I came out of the turn, think “Breathe in, breathe out, hands forward, zennnnnnnn…” all the way to the fence. It took a while, but that has become my go-to, even on the greenies and tougher horses now.

I do agree with the other posters too - keeping the fences unintimidating until you make new habits is a wonderful idea.

[trakehners]

@chocolate_chip_in

One question: why can’t you stay at 2’3/2’6 until you’re bored? “Until you’re bored and find it easy” is not the same as “forever.” It sounds like you’re both set at poles and 2’3, how about 2’6?

Oh this is what we’re doing! It’s more the “go back to crossrails” idea that’s the problem (unless they’re giant crossrails, we do those in gymnastics a lot). I get to live at 2’6”/2’9” til I stop freaking out about it (my trainer would not let me move up even if I were willing to move up myself, which I’m not), I think this is more me knowing that it currently looks like a disaster half the time and trying to justify why we aren’t sticking to the stuff that isn’t a disaster. I’ve known my trainer for eighteen years and she’s seen me ride a lot so I trust her when she tells me that I’m not getting anything new out of exclusively drilling the tiny stuff (which we still do, just not all the time). She absolutely wouldn’t get mad at me if I went to her today and said that I changed my mind and I want to stay at Starter forever where the SJ is easy for me—all she cares about is that we have goals that we’re working toward, regardless of what they are. She’s only pushing me past it because she knows that’s what I want her to do.

@dmveventer

It’s also entirely possible that you’re micromanaging more in the ring and picking away at your impulsion so you have nothing left when you get to the fence, which is a terrible feeling and will just reinforce your nerves.

It’s definitely this more than anything—I used to have to micromanage him so much to keep him together and I don’t have to do that anymore but my brain is not convinced of that fact at all. My trainer continually yells at me (nicely) to stop worrying about his feet because that’s his job and just worry about keeping him forward and straight (last night I got a lecture about sending him forward before I half-halt so that I actually have something to balance). That’s a lot of the incentive for filming my rides—I think it might help to watch them back and see that he’s going fine/not running away with me and what I think I’m feeling isn’t what’s actually happening anymore.

@Small_Change

Is your horse solid enough that you can distract yourself with something else in front of the fences that stops you from pulling? I had an awful time learning to sit quietly in front of the fence after riding a HOT jumper who would make a bid to a fence no matter what I did in the saddle.

He always, always, always goes unless he literally can’t (usually because I got in the way too much, I don’t think he’s ever done it because of his own decisions) and then he’ll dip out the side (which I think is partly why I’m so confident XC on him—I know he’s not going to kill either of us if he genuinely can’t do it). He’s never been a dirty stopper and he also never does the shoulder drop and spin to run out. We’re working a lot right now on me keeping my body still (without being stiff) so that he can learn to trust that I’m going to be right there with him without either choking him back or chasing him to a fence. Over the weekend my trainer literally marked out my “danger zone” in the sand before the fences where I make changes that I don’t have time to make and that helped a lot, it’s just being able to translate that to other jumps because I can’t physically mark that for every jump all the time.

I know that the answer is really time and practice so I appreciate the reassurance of that fact from everyone. It’s just frustrating knowing that I’m not riding as well as I did when I was twelve. I had myself mostly under control in March but then my horse decided to be lame with an abscess for a month and all of the work we did on my brain over the winter completely disappeared. We’re off to a schooling jumper show this weekend with the goal of having an educational trip as opposed to a competitive one, and then I’m told we all get to live in two-stride gymnastics hell for a while after we get back (my apologies to every one of my barnmates). I’ve already concluded and conveyed to my trainer that we need to make sure I keep jumping over the winter even if it’s just a couple of fences every few rides so that my brain doesn’t have time to completely forget what’s going on and revert back to bad habits. I also have therapy every other week so I’ll see if my therapist has any sport psychologist recommendations during my appointment on Monday—there’s no one in the practice who does it but she may have some ideas for me outside of it.

[Willesdon]

“… currently looks like a disaster” you say. Stop worrying about what you look like!!!

Go and have fun on your beautiful horse. The teenage you probably lacked all the heavy adult baggage we drag around with us but you can still ride thinking it is about fun, having fun, sharing fun and so perhaps regain some of that teenage innocence and joy - and stop worrying about what you look like.

[dmveventer]

@trakehners

I think this is more me knowing that it currently looks like a disaster half the time and trying to justify why we aren’t sticking to the stuff that isn’t a disaster. I’ve known my trainer for eighteen years and she’s seen me ride a lot so I trust her when she tells me that I’m not getting anything new out of exclusively drilling the tiny stuff

Your trainer sounds awesome, what she’s recommending is exactly what I would want to see in your position. You have to (strategically) push yourself out of your comfort zone if you want to get better, just doing things you’re good at isn’t going to do anything for you. Sometimes you really do just have to work through it and embrace the suck for a while. Learning is not a linear process, and it’s not always pretty. You may see gradual progress in the right direction, or (more often, it feels like) it’ll just suck for a while until suddenly it really doesn’t anymore. You trust your trainer, which is huge, and now you just have to trust the process.

Be kind to yourself. You may not be as fearless or physically fit as you were as a teenager, but you’re definitely smarter and bring a lot more perspective to the saddle than you did back then. You aren’t holding your barnmates back, or your horse, or your trainer. Riding is HARD. I don’t know where to credit this, but after a bad ride I like to remind myself of the “rule of thirds” - the theory that for serious athletes one third of your workouts are going to feel great, a third will feel absolutely terrible, and a third will be average. The bad rides are just as necessary to the process as the good ones.

[trakehners]

@dmveventer

Your trainer sounds awesome, what she’s recommending is exactly what I would want to see in your position. You have to (strategically) push yourself out of your comfort zone if you want to get better, just doing things you’re good at isn’t going to do anything for you. Sometimes you really do just have to work through it and embrace the suck for a while. Learning is not a linear process, and it’s not always pretty. You may see gradual progress in the right direction, or (more often, it feels like) it’ll just suck for a while until suddenly it really doesn’t anymore. You trust your trainer, which is huge, and now you just have to trust the process.

Be kind to yourself. You may not be as fearless or physically fit as you were as a teenager, but you’re definitely smarter and bring a lot more perspective to the saddle than you did back then. You aren’t holding your barnmates back, or your horse, or your trainer. Riding is HARD. I don’t know where to credit this, but after a bad ride I like to remind myself of the “rule of thirds” - the theory that for serious athletes one third of your workouts are going to feel great, a third will feel absolutely terrible, and a third will be average. The bad rides are just as necessary to the process as the good ones.

She really is the best! I’m sure we can all name a ton of upper-level riders who are fantastic riders but can’t actually teach to save their lives and she’s the exact opposite of that (and has been for the entire time I’ve known her). She always says that she’ll never tell us to do anything if she isn’t 80% sure we’ll be successful at it—not 100%, because nothing in horses is ever 100%, and she doesn’t like 90% as a number, so 80% it is. At my core I really do believe her about that, and quite frankly I’m not sure I’d be jumping at all if I was riding with anyone else because I’ve known her so long that I know she’ll never ask me to do anything she doesn’t believe I can do. Yesterday she told me she wouldn’t let me run XC if I did it like I show jump right now, and that she’d much rather I be afraid of the things that fall down because this is something we can fix without putting me or my horse at serious risk in the process.

Her other 80% rule is that you only take 80% of what you do at home to a show, so if I’m only taking 80% of my 80% at home then of course shows are going to be worse and I shouldn’t beat myself up about it. I just need her to yell at me more until her voice is ingrained in my brain when I’m jumping the same way it is on the flat from fifteen years ago. My instructions for this weekend are to focus on riding forward and not worry about anything else because she’d rather I take down every fence but keep a rhythm over micromanaging my distances and being clear but incredibly disjointed.

And I’m not worried about holding my barnmates back, just sorry to make them all suffer through two-strides for days because we all hate them. I’m just the only one who bombs them consistently enough to need to do them eight thousand times and everyone else is reaping the consequences of that hahaha.

I also completely forgot that there are sports psychology podcasts in Ride IQ which I do subscribe to so I’ve been listening while I’m at work today. I’ll have to revisit them when I’m at home and can actually do the visualization exercises and whatnot but it’s definitely a good place to start. My dad also bought a sports psychology for riders book when I first started taking lessons two decades ago so I’ll have to see if I can figure out where we put it. I’m sure it’s out of date to some degree but probably wouldn’t be the worst thing to flip through.

[chocolate_chip_in]

Ha, I was just about to mention the rule of thirds because my trainer was talking about it the other day after we had a really tough lesson where things did NOT look pretty (why yes a two-stride gymnastic was involved, apparently @trakehners and I are on the same developmental path ). She also reminded me for the nth time that we’re competing in eventing not equitation.

Look, like I said I’m all for sticking to the easy stuff until it gets boring. But if it’s already boring, and you want to step up a degree of difficulty, and your trainer agrees that you and your horse are both ready…it’s not going to go perfectly right out of the gate. You’re going to have new technical skills to (re)learn and it’s going to uncover new baggage that you have to unpack. Growth is not always pretty.

No, I have not perfectly internalized this message, lest I come across as some kind of sage know it all and not someone who was fighting off a panic attack at the ingate like two weeks ago.

[Larbear]

Pivo-ing your rides is a great idea, I tend to ride on my own a lot so recording is very useful. I wonder if your comfort level is higher for x-country than the show jumping is because you have a better forward quality canter? I would try just throwing down a couple of poles and work on a good canter and think forward to the poles. I used to do this a lot with my late ottb. I had small jumps up but always had some poles down. I’d get my canter and take it over the pole if I could see my stride and meet the pole good, then I knew if I could maintain that canter, the jump should come up easy. I’d ask myself if I thought it was a good quality canter, if the pole was awkward then no we didn’t and would fix then canter.

[Gardenhorse]

In terms of sports psychology books, Andrea Waldo’s “Brain training for riders” is great.