Epileptic dog so hungry he eats poop - help!

[KingoftheRoad]

I really need some help - our 3.5 yo collie/shepherd/golden something mix had his first seizure when he was 1 year old, had about three more over the next year, and we put him on phenobarbitol. Knock on wood, the PB has controlled his seizures very well, so well that we haven’t had one in over a year.

However, the PB seems to make him ravenously hungry. We already feed him weight management food, because he’s getting chunky, but he whines for food all the time. We have even tried adding green beans to his dry dog food to help him feel fuller, but now it seems he is so hungry that he’s eating poop in our yard where he stays during the day.

Anyone have any ideas on how I stop this habit? I feel terrible that he’s so hungry, but he already weighs 85 pounds, so he can’t gain any more weight, or I’m worried he’ll start to have joint problems. He’s on high quality LiveSmart weight management food from Smartpak, and I don’t know what else to do.

Thanks in advance!

[Marshfield]

You could try zonisamide or potassium bromide for seizure control

[wendy]

If it’s the medication making him “hungry” you’ll just have to deal with it. It doesn’t matter how much he puts into his stomach, he’ll feel hungry. Can you switch to a different medication? although the rest of your description just sounds like a normal dog being a dog.

pick up the poop so he can’t eat it? many dogs eat poop and it has nothing to do with them being “hungry”. It has to do with them being dogs.

Lots of dogs whine and beg for food. Even if they aren’t hungry. Cause they are dogs. You just ignore them and they will stop doing it. If you give in, even once, they will keep on begging and whining. Why not? it might work, and they have nothing better to do.

There are several studies showing dogs will preferentially lose body fat and retain muscle if fed an appropriate amount of calories of a low-carb high-protein moderate fat food instead of a higher-carbohydrate diet. Livesmart’s regular food is only 24% protein/ 12% fat (aka mostly carbohydrates) and 408 kcal/cup; their weight management food is only 24% protein/ 8% fat (aka mostly carbohydrates) and 350 kcal/cup. A big dog should be eating around 3 cups or so of this food, but due to its high carb levels it will continue to promote fat deposits.
If you like Smartpak’s service, just switch to the wellness core reduced fat they also sell- it has the same kcal/cup (350), so you’d feed the same amount, but at 33% protein/ 9% fat it has a lot fewer carbohydates to promote fat deposition. If the dog continues to gain weight on whatever you are feeding, well, then you need to feed less.

Also feeding a dog out of toy that makes them work and take time to get the food can be very satisfying to a dog and make them feel “fuller” than if they snarf it up out of a bowl.

[KingoftheRoad]

I’m hesitant to switch his meds - we already know that in all likelihood the phenobarb will eventually not be as effective at controlling his seizures, so we’re trying to hang with the “simple” medication as long as possible, especially since it doesn’t seem to have many other side effects.

Maybe I characterized it wrong - he doesn’t beg or whine all the time. But anytime around food time, he gets almost frantic, almost afraid you’re not going to feed him. And we don’t give in - they get almost no treats, and when they do, we usually feed them ice cubes, since they like crunching them, but there aren’t any calories.

We live on ten acres, and have about three acres - about half grass and half woods - fenced in for our four dogs, so it is a large area they have to roam - which also means it can be difficult to find all the poop, especially since we don’t have the same nose he does! And then, since they stay in the yard during the day while we are at work, we can’t control that either.

He’s the only one of our dogs that eats poop though. We feed him about 3.5 cups a day of the LiveSmart. I will definitely go look at the Wellness Core food and see if that will work for him - I do love Smartpak dog food service, I think I’d go nuts without it, as many dogs as we have with different feeding requirements. Maybe if I get one of those bowls with the pillars in it that they have to eat around, that might help too.

Good suggestions - thanks!

[mvp]

Personally, I wouldn’t make an epileptic dog hungry forever so that he won’t suffer from arthritis and fail to live to his doggie 100th birthday.

His motto is probably along the lines of “Have a good time, all the time.” He doesn’t know or care how long that time is.

JMHO. I know you are trying to do the right thing.

[KingoftheRoad]

Then how would you decide how much to feed him? If we gave him free choice, he’d probably eat until he was sick…I’m happy to feed him more green beans or anything else if someone can recommend something, just to give him something to eat and fill his tummy, so long as it doesn’t make him blow up like a balloon, you know?

I agree, it’s a balancing act, I’m just trying to figure out where the right balance is…right now doesn’t feel so good since he’s eating crap.

Always something to worry about

[SquishTheBunny]

He now knows what it feels like to be a healthy lab lol.

My old lab (12) is ALWAYS hungry, but has been her entire life. She eats poop if I miss a pile, she also enjoys cat turds and the rabbit turds are yummy too. She also eats underware, socks and whatever else she thinks might be edible.

I think unfortunatley, they just have to be hungry. They learn routine, that at x and x time they are fed and otherwise they dont eat. Maybe try a muzzle outside?

[SquishTheBunny]

[QUOTE=mvp;6237490]
Personally, I wouldn’t make an epileptic dog hungry forever so that he won’t suffer from arthritis and fail to live to his doggie 100th birthday.

His motto is probably along the lines of “Have a good time, all the time.” He doesn’t know or care how long that time is.

JMHO. I know you are trying to do the right thing.[/QUOTE]

But fat dogs are even more unhealthy than a controlled epileptic. I would rather deal with epilepsy than diabetes, cruciate ruptures, joint pain etc. I have seen SO many young fat labs that cant even get up from a lying position without help because they are SO obese.

[ElisLove]

My dobie is completely healthy but he FLIPS when it’s food time. Bounding and whining and yelping and spinning and tossing his head. He eats so fast he nearly chokes himself. (yet is completely not food aggressive and my little dogs can take food from right beside his bowl while he’s eating. and walk under him)
He also eats any poop he can find if let out alone (he respects me so won’t eat it while I am there but sometimes will for my parents)
He not on any meds and doesn’t have any conditions.

[Horsegal984]

Adolf’s meat tenderizer on everybody’s food. Can help deter some pups from wanting to eat poop.

Green beans, and baby carrots can be added, I would actually cut back to no more than 2 1/2 cups total per day but add a 1- 1 1/2 cups of green beans as needed to help him feel full. Although I’m not sure that’s his issue as much as just know when dinner time is…

And save yourself some even more disgusting moments and DON"T do a muzzle for poop eating. They just push down and manage to pack the turds into all the cracks of the muzzle, then you have to scrub poop off the muzzle and the dogs face. And they still manage to eat a good bit of it, don’t ask how I know (stupid freaking dogs!)

[Beckham03]

You can try taking his food amount and spread it over three feedings, adding green beans to each meal to help fill him up. This happens a lot with epileptic dogs on phenobarbital. If his weight keep going up, at some point, his phenobarb dose will need to go up. Levetiracetam (Keppra) is a safe and effective anticonvulsant.

[Rainier]

I see that this is an older post, but just wondering if the OP or anyone else had luck finding a solution to this? My 6 year old aussie starting having seizures about a year ago and we went to the max level of pb and then added keppra. She’s now only had one seizure in the last month, where we were having breakthrough seizures that could be 3 in two days before. Evidently one side effect of PB is that it kills their sensation of being full, so they want to eat all the time. A friend of mine is a research vet in the field of canine epilepsy and he tells the owners of his patients to start securing their garbage because even previously well behaved dogs would start becoming garbage hounds after going on the drug. My dog is eating a lot of poop I fear and has gained 5 additional pounds since going on the keppra. She also gets into anything we leave in the house (including energy bars and GU packets left in packs, etc.) when we haven’t been totally careful. I feel badly for her.

[kimkatsooo]

We feed our dog that was the poop eater pineapple rings. Just one with each meal. There is something about the pineapple taste in the poo that they do not like. It worked! We were able to stop the pineapples after a while!

Kim

[KingoftheRoad]

We followed one of the recommendations from this post, and switched him to one of the Wellness Core weight management dog foods from Smartpak…the increase in protein seemed to help him feel fuller longer. Recently we switched him from that to the Wellness Simple Food solutions - Duck formula, to try and ease some skin allergy problems by moving away from chicken as the protein source.

I think it’s worked pretty well - he’s still a big fan of food, and very interested in meals, but he doesn’t seem to be scavenging as much as before. We also are slowly trying to taper down his PB, since he’s been on it for about 5 years without a single seizure. I’m not a fan of trashing his liver if we don’t have to…figured we’d try and back off the PB, and see if by some miracle he’s grown out of the epilepsy. If we have a breakthrough seizure, then I guess we’ll have our answer, but it seems worth at least one shot…I wonder if that will help ease the hunger pangs as well.

But big thumbs up for the Wellness food - it’s kinda expensive, but not unmanageable…

[Sswor]

[QUOTE=kimkatsooo;7931083]
We feed our dog that was the poop eater pineapple rings. Just one with each meal. There is something about the pineapple taste in the poo that they do not like. It worked! We were able to stop the pineapples after a while!

Kim[/QUOTE]

Wow, fantastic tip! I do not have a poo-eater currently but used to (he’s passed on now). I’ll remember this for in the future should I ever end up with another one. Again, great tip, thanks for posting.