Equation Saddlery

[meupatdoes]

[QUOTE=snyderpm;4342747]
I thought I would follow up on my George experience. I posted earlier about how he came to our barn and sold several saddles. I only wanted my Albion SL looked at and evaluated, and if it needed some flocking, do it. My saddle hadn’t been evaluated for about one year. Anyway, he opened up the tree even wider and removed some flocking. I was surprised that he did that, and told him so, because it looked too wide to me. After riding my saddle a few times, I was sure it was too wide and hard to ride. I might as well have ridden bareback.

A few months later when he came back, to sell some more saddles, which have not turned out real good, we argued about my saddle. I told him I wanted him to put it back to the way it was before he messed with it. He was just sure I was making a big mistake, and I gave in to his BS. He took my saddle and opened it up even wider. He said, this is the way it needs to be. I can tell you without hesitation, that it was terrible, and not only was it hard to sit, but it was also hitting my crotch. I got someone else to try it on their horse, who is a little wider than mine, and it did the same thing to them. The saddle just sucks you forward right into the pommel, because it is too wide, dropping in front. I had to ride my other saddle that I don’t like as much.

About a month later, another saddler showed up at our barn for someone else, and I grabbed him, and I told him what George did, and he agreed that my saddle was way too wide and totally screwed up. He adjusted the tree and added some flocking, and it rides better than it ever has, very comfortable, and I my horse is going better in his lateral work than he ever has, especially half pass. This guy, and his wife are master saddlers, and they know about George, just like we do. George needs to find another way to make a living, because he ain’t too good at this one.[/QUOTE]

OK, I really have no dog in this fight here but I am just interested, and honestly in the least possible snarky way, in this post.

Can you explain quick what you mean when you are talking about all of these saddle fitters coming to the barn and adjusting the tree of your Albion back and forth? I have seen a saddle fitter adjusting the tree of an Albion, so yes, it is possible, but it involes taking the saddle completely apart, taking the tree COMPLETELY out and putting it in a vice for some time, and then, of course, putting the saddle together again.

This whole process takes quite a few hours and costs around $800 -$1,200.

I am not doubting your story, and I am glad the second fitter fixed you up, but I am wondering what are these saddle fitting professionals TELLING YOU they are doing, vs what are they ACTUALLY doing?

Unless I am missing something they can’t get NEAR the tree on a farm call.

[ToN_Farm]

Meupatdoes, they are adjusting the tree points at the barn visit. It can be done rather quickly with a special machine, but only slightly on most english made saddles.

Looks like SnyderPM has a knack for buying saddles that have problems. As I said earlier, some people are not easily satisfied and I’m not always convinced that what they claim doesn’t fit, really doesn’t or does.

@"SnyderPM"

purchased the new Wintec Pro Dressage II 2-3 months ago, and I don’t like it at all. You are not locked in like you are in the Isabell, but there is just too much bulk under you. I am hoping that when it breaks in I will like it better. My main saddle is a short flap Albion SL, that fits my Tb and me perfect.

My biggest complaint with the new Wintec is that it bridges really bad. My Tb does not have a deep dip behind his withers like some Tb’s, so I guess for this saddle to work a horse must have a really flat back. I am hoping that when it breaks in, and a little flocking it will fit my horse, if not, it is for sale.

[Maude]

Actually, I had a Schleese longer than 30 days and didn’t get to really ride in it due to an injury my horse sustained. By the time I was able to really ride in it I realized that I needed a more appropriate option. Jochen Schleese had me try several saddles and I chose a Wave. He gave me full credit for the saddle I returned and fitted the new one free. So, yes, Schleese took the saddle back and I chose a different model. Schleese wanted me to be safisfied. No way can anyone know that a saddle is right for the horse and rider in 1 ride. Most of my students ride in Schleeses and have no complaints. My point is, in today’s very competitive saddle market, customer service and satisfaction is vital. And, most saddle fitters are not riders therefore do not understand specific rider needs.

[mickeydoodle]

As I learned from Cary Wallace at Custom Saddlery this year, it is surprisingly easy to get to the tree of your saddle, and a saddle fitter can indeed do it in your driveway, without it taking hours.

Cary came to my farm in both KY and Fl to adjust my saddles. He showed me how one gets to the tree- basically there is leather lacing holding the panels to the seat, you take that lacing out, and viola, the tree is exposed. You can then remove the seat cover from the tree. He can do it in about 5 minutes. He can adjust the tree, restuff, do whatever adjustments are needed and lace the thing back together in an hour or less. Moreover, it does not cost $800.

It did take him a little longer to put adjustable stirrup bars on the tree, because he had to order them then weld them to the tree, but they are great, really help my leg position. They have been around for quite a few years, I do not think that George invented them. It is not his name stamped on the metal.

I also had a saddle from George, and when I had surgery (hip replacement) and needed the saddle adjusted for this change in my body, he was no where to be found. Multiple calls and e-mails produced no response.

That is when I got the saddle from Custom, it is great, much more consistent customer service.

[Unfforgettable]

As for knowledge of anatomy, he does throw around a lot of big words that seem to impress people. And to be fair, he gets some of it right. But telling me…more than once…that my saddle was putting pressure in my horse’s cervical vertebrae (which are located in the neck!!!) lost him his anatomical credibility with me.

And when my previously happy young horse became more and more angry and miserable after weeks of following his advice that the flocking just has to settle (and there were hard lumps and bumps in it)…and I stupidly kept trying it his way to the point where the horse was unrideable…and then after I complained again he said he re-flocked it it to compensate for my very one-sided horse, when in fact he had commented on how evenly developed my horse was the day he fitted it…well, that ended it for me. And I never saw a dime of the refund he promised me either, but at least his son was able to take the additional flocking out of the right side.

I’m just glad I only went to have the tree widened and then the saddle fitted on my old saddle, rather than buying one of his. It was a less costly experience, but I was well educated by it.

[Boomer]

Anyone seen George lately?

has anyone seen George lately? Anyone have an email address or cell phone number? If so, please PM me.

My trainer has been trying to get a hold of him & I tried on the website only to find that I couldn’t access it.

He has a saddle of mine to resell and I need to get it back. He’s had it for 5 or 6 months.

My trainer has a client that has a saddle that isn’t fitting properly.

Thanks!

[ec412]

[QUOTE=ToN Farm;4824718]
What do you consider ‘so very many’? It’s a handful of people on this board that comment over and over about their dislike of him. Nobody can please everybody all of the time.

George has been at my barn, sold a saddle to a friend, and adjusted my saddle (not his) and there was no pressure at all. He spent a lot of time with my friend. I got very good vibes from him, and I’m not easily fooled by charlatans.

Regarding patents, I don’t know if he has one or not, but he did comment on the 3 position stirrup bar of my Cardanel saddle stated that it was his idea.[/QUOTE]

Actually there are a few members posting several times with apparently great experiences like you. Dozens of others coming out of the woodwork that did not get past 6 months without horse issues- as that is how we know our saddles are not working.

We bring in people that we think we can trust. We “trust” that they are going to do right by our horses. They are claiming to be the experts, and we are PAYING them for their expertise. Our horses are the only real evidence if this is correct or not.

It is mentioned that these negative posts come from inexperienced riders, problem horses, and so on… I will reiterate again.

My issues CEASED the moment I got that saddle off my horses back 3 years ago[/I]. I am still trying to get rid of that saddle- that the oh so wise and experienced George CUSTOM made for me and my horse.
I rode in that saddle for 6 months.

Boomer- sorry that you are looking for him- he continues to be elusive- perhaps his son knows where he is.

[ToN_Farm]

George was at my farm on May 17, 2010. He made flocking adjustments on my Cardanel saddle, adjustments that should have been made by the seller/fitter I purchased it from; someone who gets rave reviews on this board but brushed me off after the saddle sale.

Not only did George address my flocking problems, but he spent time discussing things with me and the charge was minimal. I don’t care what EC or some of you others think. My opinion is that this guy is top notch.

Also, that is a bunch of baloney that he doesn’t know the muscular skeleton system of the horse. He has a new saddle fitting check list is quite impressive.

George can be reached through Patricia, same as always. The Equation site is down and I do not think will be back up. I am not giving anyone his number if I think they are a trouble maker.

[Boomer]

[QUOTE=ToN Farm;4885520]

George can be reached through Patricia, same as always. The Equation site is down and I do not think will be back up. I am not giving anyone his number if I think they are a trouble maker.[/QUOTE]

I understand your resistance to give out a number - do you have an email?

I’ll keep trying thru Patricia and hope he calls back. I’ve heard the universal “poor service” complaint from a lot of people - even the ones that like his work, so…

The Equation fit my horse but not me, that is why I am reselling it. I ended up buying a Custom Everest that I & horsey love.

Just need to get the Equation re-homed as it is show money for next year!

[system]

I have an Equation saddle for sale to anyone that likes George’s work. PM if you are interested. It’s a 16" Seat with a short flap as I am 5’2". I rode in it 4 times total. It didn’t work with my horse who has a lot of movement in his back.

[DressageReine]

I just ordered a saddle from him a few weeks ago. It’s supposed to come in a couple weeks. I’ll write about it when it comes. I’ve sat in two of his saddles though (neither of which were made for me/my body type) and they were wonderful. They put me in the exact position I needed to be in.

One drawback - my trainer said that, to get decent customer service from George, you basically need to know someone. My trainer has a couple of his saddles, and her trainer has quite a few, so I think that helps. I kind of consider it like leverage

On the plus side, Patricia has been wonderful to deal with too. She’s always called me back right away, and has kept me up to date on scheduling (which she admits is hard). I’ve had a good experience so far, but, if it were just me on my own, I don’t know how it would go.

I’ll post about the saddle when I receive it. George was VERY knowledgeable about how my body type affects my riding, and even knew where I was having back pain. Looking forward to the saddle!

[Boomer]

I’m glad it’s working for you. I’m still trying to get the saddle back from him that I’m trying to sell. He told me 3 weeks ago that he would send it and I’ve emailed and emailed. No answer.

I’ll try the office again, but last time she didn’t know anything about it.

A friend had to consult a lawyer to get her saddle back. Guess I will have to go that route too. :no:

So frustrating. I know it’s “only” a $2000 saddle, but geez, that’s a lot of money to me. And I’m not going to get what I paid for it, even though it’s only 1 year old and ridden in a handful of times.

From what I’ve heard, I’ll probably get half what I paid since George said used saddles aren’t selling. Everyone’s buying new.

[Consensus]

Saddle fitting

I can say I have worked with George and Patsy for about 12 or more years. He fitted my saddle the first time to my arabian who was flat and wide. Then I lost him to cancer and got a TB. Way different body types. George took the wool out of me saddle and put air bags in it to better fit my TB. I called and met with his son Chris to fix a air bag that was leaking. I now have a 5 year old hanoverion to fit a new saddle to. George’s son is coming to do the measuring this week. I feel if George is busy he must be good at what he does or no one would call him.

[mickeydoodle]

Golly, here is this thread again. I bought a $4800 custom saddle from George. It needed adjusting after I had a hip replacement and the horse rehabbed after a suspensory injury (same time) and I COULD NOT FIND NOR GET A RESPONSE FROM GEORGE.

In desperation, as saddle did not fit me, nor the horse, I bought another custom saddle from another vendor. Another $4800 plus $500 for adjustable stirrup bars (really help my position and sitting)

[Boomer]

[QUOTE=mickeydoodle;5108696]
Golly, here is this thread again. I bought a $4800 custom saddle from George. It needed adjusting after I had a hip replacement and the horse rehabbed after a suspensory injury (same time) and I COULD NOT FIND NOR GET A RESPONSE FROM GEORGE.

In desperation, as saddle did not fit me, nor the horse, I bought another custom saddle from another vendor. Another $4800 plus $500 for adjustable stirrup bars (really help my position and sitting)[/QUOTE]

I just got the saddle back that I posted above about in August. So now I need to sell it.

It wasn’t easy getting a hold of someone there - literally had to say I was getting an attorney - which I would have but they responded.

Sorry you’re in the “no response” zone - call or email every week. It’s annoying to have to do that but you really gotta squeek to get a response. It’s for this reason I can’t recommend this company to friends - the work is fine, but the customer service is bad.

If they are too busy, cut back or hire another person.

[PFMJ]

I posted earlier. Everything was fine with my saddle, until I had a problem. I found it easier to walk away and buy another saddle. I was not happy with the response I got and it was not worth my horse’s back. And as to being an inexperienced rider, I am far from that.

[ec412]

glad you are happy

[QUOTE=ToN Farm;4885520]
George was at my farm on May 17, 2010. He made flocking adjustments on my Cardanel saddle, adjustments that should have been made by the seller/fitter I purchased it from; someone who gets rave reviews on this board but brushed me off after the saddle sale.

Not only did George address my flocking problems, but he spent time discussing things with me and the charge was minimal. I don’t care what EC or some of you others think. My opinion is that this guy is top notch.

Also, that is a bunch of baloney that he doesn’t know the muscular skeleton system of the horse. He has a new saddle fitting check list is quite impressive.

George can be reached through Patricia, same as always. The Equation site is down and I do not think will be back up. I am not giving anyone his number if I think they are a trouble maker.[/QUOTE]

His number is inconsequential as he does not make good on his saddles if there is a problem. If you are not having a problem, I am glad for you.

REPEAT- everything has been fine since I got that saddle off my horses back- horse is happy, I am happy- not a trouble maker, no issues. Moving up the levels just fine every year. Those that know me, know that I do not cause problems, no drama.

I have my Albion looked at once a year- minor adjustments. It is apparent from this forum that I am not the only one that had a problem, and could not get him or Patricia to return calls or fix the saddle.

[edit]

[mickeydoodle]

me too, 18" short flap, really nice leather, excellent condition, low mileage as I had surgery then could never use the saddle again, could never get a response from George or Patricia. I would sell it for $1000, paid $4800

[ToN_Farm]

And here we go again:winkgrin:

I guess you guys missed the piece on Dressage Daily George wrote recently. Anyway, he has a new website and is selling Hennig in addition to his own saddles. Here’s the link.

http://www.equineinspired.info/

[ec412]

And your point is?

[QUOTE=ToN Farm;5110689]
And here we go again:winkgrin:

I guess you guys missed the piece on Dressage Daily George wrote recently. Anyway, he has a new website and is selling Hennig in addition to his own saddles. Here’s the link.

http://www.equineinspired.info/[/QUOTE]

So there is an article on Dressage Daily? Dressage Daily will feature anyone that wants to be featured for a fee. Sort of like an infomerical- (Nothing personal about DD, just reality) so your point is because there was an article in DD it makes all of this legit?

I think the concensus here is that if someone truly stood by their work they would make it right, or sell it for the purchaser. Instead, when things go sour, George walks away, does not return phone calls, or make it right. There have been numerous reports of this. Do you really think people are sitting around making this up? No one expects perfection. We all know that circumstances change for whatever reason, but the honorable and honest business person stands by their work AND deals with the customer.

As a person that has run a business for over 25 years, my repeat customers are the foundation of my business, and what keeps me afloat- If I ran my business like George does, buying a saddle would be a mute point, as well as owning a horse.

I think all I have heard here is from posters is “George make it right or help me move on” If he were to do that, I don’t believe you would have all the threads warning potential buyers- you don’t see any other threads with this level of activity on any other saddle fitter. Think about it.