Equestrian “industrial complex”

[Angel_Undercover]

My h/j barn is very similar. Everyone grooms and tacks their own horses. At shows we do everything ourselves - I get up at 3 am to bath and groom, my horse doesn’t get lunged or pro rides, and I warm up myself if my coach is busy elsewhere. I do use a braider though, it’s my one indulgence! It’s not about cost, my trainer simply believes and expects that everyone know how to take care of their own horses.

The majority of the boarders are very involved in their horse’s daily management and that is encouraged. My horse is on full care board, but I’m still there most days to feed/blanket, I deal with his nutrition, I book my own vet apts etc. While this style isn’t the norm, I do know multiple h/j barns that operate the same way.

[fivestrideline]

Every single H/J barn I’ve been at is this way - two had grooming services but you had to schedule them ahead of time (mainly used by working adults trying to squeeze lessons or rides in after work). Everyone was expected to be able to do it all themselves.

Maybe I’ve just not been at fancy enough places, but MOST people know how to catch, groom, tack and untack, put on blankets, clean tack, and pick out a stall with varying degrees of perfection. It’s the things you learned at camp or as a barn rat that have fallen away - standing wraps and clipping and basic first aid. There’s a lot of rule following without knowing the WHY - why do clips always face the horse? Why do all the buckets have tape on the handle hooks? Why do you put a stud chain on like that? Etc etc.

I chatter to kids about the why’s, and they soak it all up. I was lucky to have Pony Club trained instructors and more free rein than a kid can have these days, and I learned a LOT. So I try to pass it on, because contrary to what people will tell you I’ve found that the majority of rider are very interested in the details.

[punchy]

I think it’s true for horse showing. It’s kind of the ‘sport industrial complex.’ Used to be the average kid paid 10 bucks to play rec ball, got a hat and a t-shirt, played with town equipment once a week at the local ball field, and if you were good, you joined later the high school baseball or softball team. Now your average suburban middle class kid in my area pays over a grand to be on a travel team, has to buy all their own equipment, have closed practices at various facilities during the week, their parents spend every freaking weekend at tournaments staying at the nearby pricey hotels owned by the tournament company. (It’s like WEC!) The coaches are abusive to parents (I’ve heard shocking things from friends) and obsessively maniacal about recruiting 8 year-olds and controlling their lives. Kids sports have just gone bonkers. Part of it I think is parents hoping their kid earns a college scholarship. (See various threads etc. about parental insecurity for success of children) Meanwhile, horse barns become more and more like a product of this environment. And want more of the environment, and the two just start feeding off each other.

I just see so much crazy anymore, I wonder if I’m just getting old or what—probably

[fledermaus]

If there were no prestige competition venues, your E.I.C. would not exist. Period. The horses are primarily the means by which people compete. Where there is money to burn, systems are created to suck up that money. Plain as day when you are standing outside looking in.

Where I live, which is rural, all the horse people I know either keep their horses at home or at a relaxed co-op boarding situation. Trainers are thin on the ground here. Mostly the things my friends take the trouble to attend are clinics, fun days, hunter paces, club trail rides, and the like. Different life than what you describe.

Clearly there is a market in dense, upscale areas for the kind of consumer riding experience you describe, otherwise it wouldn’t exist. But you should understand this is a small minority of people who ride. The hard truth is, if you want control over your equine journey, moving closer to an area where owning pasture is accessible to the middle class is the obvious solution.

[dags]

@Demerara_Stables

It makes me so happy to hear that there’s at least one show barn out there doing it this way!! Can I ask where you’re located?

I can show you another in KY. Successful show barn in developing jumpers, bringing along kids, and catering to amateurs. Goes to FL for at least a few weeks every winter. But no one’s going to tack your horse up for you.

There’s full-training and then there’s grooming. Full training ensures trainer is getting paid something for that horse 5 days a week, even when owner slacks off or their life simply gets in the way. The work/care trainer would do anyway, to keep the horse’s “program” going, gets paid for. I imagine most HJ programs are set up this way, because adding “grooming” just adds massive labor costs + the challenge of finding & keeping good grooms.

These kids & owners are fully versed in the basics of horse care, and damn if they aren’t doing their best with the horses the have because none of them are shopping with six figure budgets (or anywhere near it). And because they are frequently dealing with young or quirky or unique needs it is imperative that each horse enjoy a baseline of consistency, and that’s where full training steps in. Not just making sure the horse moves forward in its training under saddle (because let’s face it, owners are not professionals and this is a 1300lb sport pet whose daddy went to the Olympics), but also making sure nothing else falls through the cracks.

Would I leave a barn full of FEI horses in the care of these kids and owners? Probably not, but ftlog they have lives. You know who doesn’t have a life? Ms. Head Trainer. But she absolutely excels at seeing the “big picture” that gets reasonably priced horses & us mere mortals top ribbons in the show ring.

Don’t be fooled by all the coverage the same two dozen BNTs get, and the famous last names that abound, I doubt they reflect the majority of HJ programs. In my experience, most owners are involved exactly as much as they want to be; sometimes that’s enough to produce show ring results. Often it’s not.

Also find that if an educated owner is really struggling to find a place that will let them “do their own thing” (basically partial training?), then their “own thing” doesn’t line up with their performance expectations.

[2DogsFarm]

@dags

solitary DIYer that might disrupt precision-timed schedules and not live up to the barn’s personal standards, all while paying less money than everyone else

I fit that mold when I showed Hunter’s but did not rock the Pro’s boat as I paid for the mandatory Groom & braider (for my convenience & admittedly better braids ) at shows & split other expenses with the other clients.
I did do my own tacking up, cooling down & prep for shipping to & from. Also helped with kids’ ponies/horses for that last bit.
But even way back then - late 80s thru early 90s - there was a contingent of adult ammys who just showed up for classes & handed horses off after.
Kids & Jr’s were largely hands off until they went in the ring.

Not only Hunters these days, I now live in WPland & observe the same at local shows, hear the Pro Says tales from parents - even those who ride/show themselves.
Not familiar enough with the local Dressage scene, but it seems more hands-on from what I do know.

[kirbydog]

At home, we are about 60/40 full service vs regular service. We have a few fs clients that live in the city, an hour a way,or have young kids, big jobs, etc, and have to get out of dodge with hard stop times. So it is easier for them to have full service. When they have time, they enjoy grooming and doing all the rest of the work.
When we are at shows, however, everyone is on FS. I want them to be able to course walk, watch a few rounds, have time to hack, and relax before they show. Also, my grooms are fabulous, hard workers who take a lot of pride in making “their horses” look as good as possible. And they are well appreciated

[pnwstomp]

I ride at a small H/J barn and this very much describes our program.

[lenapesadie]

@Amberley

You are assuming every barn has a trainer who runs it instead of simply being a boarding facility, where a professional staff cares for the horse but is not involved in the training

No I didn’t assume anything. I said barn / trainer bc that’s easier to type than barn and or trainer.

The vast majority of barns in my area are straight board barns. But I don’t think that has diddly squat to do with the issue at hand. If the program isn’t working for their horse, a person can switch programs. If that means a different trainer or a different barn or a different country or whatever

ETA: by “barns” I mean “public barns” because the reality of my area is that the majority of all barns (where horses are housed) are like mine; privately owned and used - not offering any services to the public.

[Janet]

@Amberley

You are assuming every barn has a trainer who runs it instead of simply being a boarding facility, where a professional staff cares for the horse but is not involved in the training. I know this is a tough concept for east coasters! but its the vast majority of stables in Europe and the rest of the world run like this and many, many very good and competitive riders keep their horses like this. They simply have a coach or coaches or have a training but not boarding relationship with a traditional US type trainer and the barn/ stables takes care of the actual care and feeding (this is how most of CA runs and I’m seeing it more and more other places).

Not a “tough concept” for this east coaster.
I’ve been on the east coast (NY and VA) for all my horse career. Mostly, I have had my horse(s) at home, but I boarded for several years, in at least 4 different barns. In each of them the boarding/care was completely separate from the training/coaching, even at one barn where I was taking lessons from the barn manager.

With the horses at home, some times I trailered to the instructor’s facility, and sometimes the instructor drove to my facility.

I am primarily an eventer, but I successfully competed in dressage, jumpers (including HITS), and hunters using this model, but I was not competing every week.

[phoenixrises]

I’m admittedly in a very horse centric area with many options. And for my first few years here was at a barn where I boarded, had a trainer but managed everything about my horse otherwise. And before this I’ve always done everything. However, I now drive 1 to 1.5 hour one direction to my job, where I work at least 9 hours often 10, and I’m in my late 40s I just don’t have it in me anymore to get out to the barn a ton, so now after many a decade in the industry I’m at a full service barn. I still tack up my own horse at home, etc, and if I want something done, I just ask for it and it’s done. But I’ve also been around the bend enough that I really do trust my trainer and staff. Heck they saved his life in Sep, and I picked them because we agree on pretty much everything. It’s flipping nice to know I just don’t have to worry about how’s he fed, when the farrier is coming etc. so yes at the A and AA level getting a diy approach is hard, but if I wanted to be an eventer or dressage person (again) I could easily do so. H/J land not so much, or at least not nearly as easily.

[ghst13]

@Janet

Not a “tough concept” for this east coaster.
I’ve been on the east coast (NY and VA) for all my horse career. Mostly, I have had my horse(s) at home, but I boarded for several years, in at least 4 different barns. In each of them the boarding/care was completely separate from the training/coaching, even at one barn where I was taking lessons from the barn manager.

With the horses at home, some times I trailered to the instructor’s facility, and sometimes the instructor drove to my facility.

It’s not a tough concept for this east coaster either. 15+ years of boarding at private barns with no trainer on-site while successfully competing in A circuit H/J. Even the boarding barns that required a minimum training package with the on-site trainer I always made the care decisions for my horses.

[OverandOnward]

@punchy

Now your average suburban middle class kid in my area pays over a grand to be on a travel team, has to buy all their own equipment, have closed practices at various facilities during the week, their parents spend every freaking weekend at tournaments staying at the nearby pricey hotels owned by the tournament company.

And I’m not sure it is less expensive than horses!

Have relatives on this system, with some kids who are serious athletes and on the first team, even in school sports (rather than private clubs). The families don’t think twice about adding pricey extras whenever a coach suggests one – or several. From buying their own specialized equipment rather than using what the school supplies, to a half-day at a recovery routine in a sports medicine clinic after a major game. Especially if the team is in the playoffs, adding as many as 8 additional games to the season’s schedule.

They send their kids across country for a week or more to camps with professional coaches of professional adult teams. More than once a year.

Even extra evaluations that give their kid a rating that is published where colleges can see it.

All this has created an enormous gap between schools in a significantly higher-income population area, and teams in their district whose parents come late to games because they have to finish their hourly-paid work shift. The players in schools with less resources may be equally gifted athletes. But that isn’t enough to overcome all the extras on the other team … and the kids definitely all know it.

[Absolut_Equestrian]

@SamBee

Betsy shows up at the barn in her match matchy set and shiny boots and proceeds directly to the mounting block where she waits for the barn staff to bring Precious - immaculately groomed and tacked up - to her. As soon as Betsy dismounts, Precious is whisked away by the groom and Betsy gets into her Range Rover.

You have this ALL wrong. Besty wouldn’t dare keep her helmet and boots in her Range Rover. She keeps them in her custom trunk or tack locker, so she must stop there before/after the mounting block. There may also be the necessity to catch up on the latest gossip, so she spends some extra time in the comfortable lounge area somewhere in view of the arena while the groom tends to her horse. There will also be stops by the horse’s stall or crossties to dispense the finest treats.

Betsy aside, I’ve lived around the country and can confirm that there are huge geographic differences. It can be East Coast vs. West Coast, or rural vs. more urban and affluent areas. You’re a lot less likely to find an owner in LA who grew up cleaning stalls, stacking hay, and other “practical” types of horsekeeping things than you would be in Kentucky. Those from more rural areas with less access to “service” often learn about horse ownership because they have to. This will create a very different type of owner than one who has always had access to a full service facility. It doesn’t mean that we don’t all love our horses, but different backgrounds create different types of owners.

You’re much more likely to find this “industrial complex” at the high end of any equestrian sport. Those types of services are not cheap, and the more casual owner is a lot less likely to spend money on those sorts of things.

[ghst13]

@Amberley

This is the hunter/ jumper forums and you’re an eventer. There are vanishingly few h/j oriented facilities on the East Coast that are not tied to a specific trainer that I’ve found.

Eventing yes there are more, western riding and trails and even some dressage places that focus on board. But almost zero h/j places or people who show on their own and do the majority of riding themselves. Or trainers who don’t have a barn they run but just coach and are still higher level and competitive.

I guess you didn’t get to my post where I replied I have spent many years on the east coast as a H/J competitor, most of which were at barns without dedicated on-site trainers. My closest H/J friends also operate under this model, having a trainer come in a couple of times a week and/or meeting trainers at shows. And all of us do the majority of riding ourselves.

Most of these boarding facilities are mixed-discipline because there is no controlling on-site trainer. So the facility is not specifically H/J focused or dressage focused or otherwise. I’m not sure why a facility not tied to a specific trainer would need to be tied to a specific discipline.

[quietann]

@ghst13

I’m not sure why a facility not tied to a specific trainer would need to be tied to a specific discipline.

Sometimes it’s not being tied to some specific disciplines. E.g. a dressage barn with no jumps, because putting them up and taking them down is a PITA for everyone. Ditto probably no reining in such a barn!

I’ve boarded at a dressage barn where “just trail horses” were welcome, although the tack room was not designed for Western tack and everyone used some flavor of English tack. There were a couple of hunt horses there as well. Our one eventer trailered out for jumping lessons and practice. There were several trainers who came in to give dressage and flatwork lessons to specific clients.

[volvo_240]

But how is a beginner supposed to get to the level of ability that they need to be capable of this?

I do think that it’s significantly harder to get there in this day and age. The root cause IMHO is simply the increased cost of horses now, with the primary driver being cost of land to keep them and grow hay etc to support them.

It used to be affordable for a barn owner to take on and allow ‘barn rats’ to learn alongside them and pick up free riding time. I don’t think it’s as easy to do that as it was 20-30 years ago.

[Alterration]

@volvo_240

It used to be affordable for a barn owner to take on and allow ‘barn rats’ to learn alongside them and pick up free riding time. I don’t think it’s as easy to do that as it was 20-30 years ago.

Affordable and available. I’m in the middle of a fairly busy suburban neighborhood. In the 3 years we’ve been here, exactly one person has stopped by and actually been interested in working here. I was shocked - I would have expected a ton of teens. Nope, just the one. Some parents and grandparents bring their littles to “see the horsies” but no teens.

[lenapesadie]

@volvo_240

But how is a beginner supposed to get to the level of ability that they need to be capable of this?

Capable of what? Changing programs? Or knowing enough to know a change is needed? If the latter, the internet is a wealth of free information. Any person with a desire and ability to learn can google any topic they desire and find out.

[volvo_240]

I don’t think Google can get you to the level of competence needed to safely and effectively manage your own horses training and care. You need mentorship and supervised hands on experience.

I think we’ve seen plenty of examples on this board of self proclaimed ‘experts’ trained by their own internet research who are incompetent at best, dangerous to their horse and themselves at worst.