Equestrian “industrial complex”

[danhelm441]

I’ve heard of the military industrial complex, and when I got married I became deeply acquainted with the wedding industrial complex. But lately I’ve been frustrated by this idea that there’s an equestrian industrial complex, too. And it kind of feels like, unless you fully embrace the industry and all its quirks and costs, you’re going to have a hard time as a horse owner.

Some of this was prompted by sneaking over to the Horse and Hound forums and seeing just how different the horse culture is over there. It seems like it’s more common for the average person to take ownership of their horse’s care and training. That feels like the exception here. To be honest, even horse ownership—period—feels like an exception here. It’s not only more common but in some ways much easier and more frictionless to lease. I know at my barn, it feels like things are designed to cater to people who are part-leasing the barn-owned string of show horses. Part of what that entails is that the barn is responsible for all management, training, and prep, and the client just shows up and rides. Leasing also removes a big training burden, too, with the idea that if you’re struggling or just not clicking with a horse, you end the lease and find a new one. It feels like (either as a result of this, or maybe a contributing cause of it) the riding culture here has little tolerance for struggling. It’s like, if you’re struggling, you’re doing it wrong, and you need a new horse, or a new trainer, or both. The idea that maybe you could stick it out and solve your own problems just doesn’t feel like it’s as widely embraced.

Lessons are tailored to developing the rider. All the horse’s training and prep is handled separately. Wanting to be more involved and learn skills to train your own horse is regarded a bit like showing up at a restaurant and wanting to learn how to cook. It’s just not how it’s done, and ultimately best left to the professionals.

And that’s just the tip of the iceberg. There are so many other adjacent industries that can feel like they complicate horse ownership or obfuscate problems that could be addressed with better quality training and management. But you’re not really encouraged to learn any better, because even if you knew, there would be nothing you could do about the training and management anyway.

Maybe this is a little bit geographically dependent. And I could see how it’s worse in some disciplines than others, like how the over-dependent client is such a stereotype in the hunters. But, to me, the sad part is that—just like with weddings—you can go into it wanting to avoid any of the nonsense and trying to do things yourself, but the industry is set up in such a way that it’s actually way harder to do that than it has any reason to be. It’s just the whole culture surrounding horses here. And by “here,” I realize I may be talking about a tiny part of the country, and people farther afield may have entirely different experiences of horse ownership and the horse industry. But this has just been my experience, and I’m very salty about it at the moment and needed to vent.

[dags]

The horse world is simply a reflection of the society we’ve built which, in stark contrast to our brethren across the pond, is one that greatly values economic overachievers and undervalues work/life balance. Thus, Amy Amateur works 60 hours a week just to ride & pay a mortgage, and Tina Teenager has sixty-million extracurricular activities just to show she is “well-rounded” on her college application.

It is not an evil trainer plot to keep riders co-dependent. It was years of watching horse care come last in the list of priorities. Years of free labor because we can’t stand to watch horse care come last and we won’t present it at the ingate under our name. Years of people complaining about “nickel & diming” when we tried to recoup something for the free labor/free shampoo/free fly spray/etc. Years of watching land & pasture disappear & getting pushed out to the boondocks 40 minutes away from paying clients. Years of watching stable acreage shrink and turnout space decline, and suddenly Amy Amateur just “not showing up” means good ol’ Gentle Ben barely got any exercise and he’s gonna be stiff as hell (or high as a kite) for her lesson tomorrow, so we better do something about it.

I saw where this was all going in 2003 and got out of training because of it, and the situation certainly has not improved.

The alternative was to cave and offer full service, because I sure as hell wasn’t going to live with horses coming last yet being expected to perform at their best. Full service wasn’t my cup of tea but it was the best solution, and many programs embraced it. Unfortunately, taking on a solitary DIYer that might disrupt precision-timed schedules and not live up to the barn’s personal standards, all while paying less money than everyone else, is not a real attractive proposition when money is already very tight.

[Scribbler]

It’s really a high end competitive hunter jumper thing.

I’m in a self care barn and we all take excellent care of our horses, from feeding to.grooming to schooling. But nobody competes big time.

If you want the surround support to compete at a higher level than you are really individually capable of in skill or time, you need to buy into a program that will get you to the competitions.

Once you tire of being in a full service program, you can move into a more hands on discipline like Eventing or Dressage or Endurance or be a recreational rider or back country rider. Or, if you really have the skills, continue to show hunter on your own.

But if you want to buy into the week long shows, the trainer prep on horses that are a bit much for you, to be able to work 9 to 5 and only visit the barn 4 or 5 days a week, to have lessons every time you ride? Then you need a show training barn.

If you have 3 hours a day to do horse care and ride and you have the skills to fix issues and school with maybe one lesson a month, you don’t need the program.

It’s a choice. How much does being in a winning program outweigh being involved in horsemanship matter to you?

[lenapesadie]

@danhelm441

But you’re not really encouraged to learn any better, because even if you knew, there would be nothing you could do about the training and management anyway.

Malarkey.

Any person can take charge of their horse’s training and management if they have the resources (money, time, ability) and drive to do so.

[Bluey]

@danhelm441

I’ve heard of the military industrial complex, and when I got married I became deeply acquainted with the wedding industrial complex. But lately I’ve been frustrated by this idea that there’s an equestrian industrial complex, too. And it kind of feels like, unless you fully embrace the industry and all its quirks and costs, you’re going to have a hard time as a horse owner.

Some of this was prompted by sneaking over to the Horse and Hound forums and seeing just how different the horse culture is over there. It seems like it’s more common for the average person to take ownership of their horse’s care and training. That feels like the exception here. To be honest, even horse ownership—period—feels like an exception here. It’s not only more common but in some ways much easier and more frictionless to lease. I know at my barn, it feels like things are designed to cater to people who are part-leasing the barn-owned string of show horses. Part of what that entails is that the barn is responsible for all management, training, and prep, and the client just shows up and rides. Leasing also removes a big training burden, too, with the idea that if you’re struggling or just not clicking with a horse, you end the lease and find a new one. It feels like (either as a result of this, or maybe a contributing cause of it) the riding culture here has little tolerance for struggling. It’s like, if you’re struggling, you’re doing it wrong, and you need a new horse, or a new trainer, or both. The idea that maybe you could stick it out and solve your own problems just doesn’t feel like it’s as widely embraced.

Lessons are tailored to developing the rider. All the horse’s training and prep is handled separately. Wanting to be more involved and learn skills to train your own horse is regarded a bit like showing up at a restaurant and wanting to learn how to cook. It’s just not how it’s done, and ultimately best left to the professionals.

And that’s just the tip of the iceberg. There are so many other adjacent industries that can feel like they complicate horse ownership or obfuscate problems that could be addressed with better quality training and management. But you’re not really encouraged to learn any better, because even if you knew, there would be nothing you could do about the training and management anyway.

Maybe this is a little bit geographically dependent. And I could see how it’s worse in some disciplines than others, like how the over-dependent client is such a stereotype in the hunters. But, to me, the sad part is that—just like with weddings—you can go into it wanting to avoid any of the nonsense and trying to do things yourself, but the industry is set up in such a way that it’s actually way harder to do that than it has any reason to be. It’s just the whole culture surrounding horses here. And by “here,” I realize I may be talking about a tiny part of the country, and people farther afield may have entirely different experiences of horse ownership and the horse industry. But this has just been my experience, and I’m very salty about it at the moment and needed to vent.

In continental Europe you are supposed to leave horse management and training to certified professionals.
Then as a student enjoy the horse you own or lease for whatever tasks you want.
If you want to care and train also, there are riding centers that will cater to that also, have stable management and horse training lessons, especially those geared as camps for kids.

The British Isslands have a different culture, as you mention, more access to private ownership and caring and training your horses.

In the US, completely unregulated, most anything goes.
There are plenty of riding, centers that cater to whatever works in their market, showing horses very specialized ones.
There are also all levels of backyard horse ownership.
I would not say there is a standard for any much related to equestrians, anyone can treat their own horse, trim, manage, train and use them as they wish and that works for many also.

[Rel6]

@danhelm441

Maybe this is a little bit geographically dependent.

I think it is very geographically dependent. I’m in NY. I grew up riding in the downstate/Westchester area. Full care was the norm, horses are very managed by trainers and barn owners, and I did not find that my involvement was welcomed or encouraged. That is absolutely barn dependent! But I think more the norm in that area.

I now live in Upstate/Western NY. Ammys who have horses at their own barns who they manage, or at partial or self-care barns, are far more common. So is shipping in for lessons (which I had never really heard of as a junior). Even for the full care facilities in my area, handing complete control of your horse’s management over to a trainer is the exception, not the rule.

ETA: I think part of this is that the market drives what people will pay. Westchester/NYC is a fairly wealthy area short on space where you have a higher concentration of people that will pay $3k+ a month to have their horses fully managed. Whereas in Upstate/Western NY, you have people with a lot of land who would look at that and say why wouldn’t I just put up a barn and a fence myself instead of paying that?

[Demerara_Stables]

@lenapesadie

Any person can take charge of their horse’s training and management if they have the resources (money, time, ability) and drive to do so.

They can, absolutely. However, some of these people are pushed out of full service barns because their opinions on how the horse should be managed don’t jive with the trainer’s opinions.

I’ve seen both sides:

1. Shit “trainers” (I call them horse showers not trainers, because anytime there’s an issue they longe it or drug it or both instead of fixing the root cause or teaching the client to ride) who have clients that really want to learn and have their horses managed responsibly, end up kicking these clients out because the clients won’t get with the program and stop asking questions.

2. Clients that think they know everything absolutely refuse to change beliefs they’ve held for 20+ years and leave or get asked to leave programs where the good trainers are trying to educate them about management and teach them to ride and train their horses.

I think the OP hit the nail on the head (at least in my area as well). My clients in a “poorer” area, also 15 years ago, had their horses at home or at a friend’s backyard barn or at a partial care boarding facility. These owners were educated about management, knew so much about their individual horses, and wanted to learn more. Many owners where I am now are shockingly uneducated, but from no fault of their own, they’ve just never had to learn and never had the opportunity to learn.

[lenapesadie]

Taking charge of one’s horse might very well mean moving barn / trainer to be in a program more aligned with one’s goals.

[Demerara_Stables]

Agreed

[Xanthoria]

@Bluey

The British Isslands have a different culture, as you mention, more access to private ownership and caring and training your horses.

The British Isles has Pony Club too. Not sure how it works in the US but I’ve heard stuff that made me wonder how good the equivalent program here is. I’m sure it’s highly variable.

After 10 years in the UKPC I was qualified to run a barn and train riders and horses. In my area at least all the kids were in PC - horse owners or not - and taking exams was expected. It was a great foundation!

[Scribbler]

I did self care from my 14th birthday through to college, learning from books and other teens because the adults around were ignorant and scary.

There’s nothing cognitively difficult about horse care but it requires a few things

Consistency day after day

Attention to detail and having a workable setup

Knowing when to call in experts and how to evaluate them. I knew how to fire a farrier at 16.

More hours in a day than many professional adults can spare

IMHO horses kept at home or self board can have much better more nuanced and more personalized care than even the best full training program. But you need the time and band width to do that, and self educate on best practices for feed, feet, turnout, schooling, vet care, etc.

There’s nothing there a smart 14 year old can’t grasp but many otherwise intelligent adults are spread so thin that they can’t figure out all these things

You are where you are in how you make horses work for you as a hobby in the modern world. I do self board, always have, never been on a pipeline towards any kind of serious competition. I’ve learned an enormous amount. But I realized years ago that if I wanted to be in the competition world in any discipline I’d need an entirely different focus, horse, budget, and facility. When people move to training barns I don’t begrudge them. You need to know your goals and what makes you happy.

[Demerara_Stables]

I think there’s an argument where you can (and should) have both. You should be educated on management enough that you could do self care, even if you don’t, when you are competing at higher levels. There’s so much that goes into horse management (really everything) that effects how your horse performs and that level of detail should be required knowledge.

[lenapesadie]

@Scribbler

There’s nothing cognitively difficult about horse care

And of course today, knowledge is at our fingertips on our phone. While perhaps not the most ideal learning modality for everyone, information is available readily.

On the other hand, if a person has their horse boarded at an unsafe facility no amount of personal knowledge is going to change the standard of care at an unsafe facility. A change of venue will be required.

[SamBee]

@Scribbler

It’s really a high end competitive hunter jumper thing.

It exists in the dressage world too, where Betsy shows up at the barn in her match matchy set and shiny boots and proceeds directly to the mounting block where she waits for the barn staff to bring Precious - immaculately groomed and tacked up - to her. As soon as Betsy dismounts, Precious is whisked away by the groom and Betsy gets into her Range Rover.

Happily, this doesn’t represent all dressage barns, or even the majority of them. For example one of my horses is in full training board, which includes all the usuals like feed, turn in / out, mucking, etc. plus boots, blanketing, and a 5 day/week training program. Owners choose any combination of pro rides or lessons for the 5 days depending on their schedules and the horse’s needs.

But on the days owners are there, they get their own horses from the field, groom, tack up, untack, etc. themselves. And the goal of the head trainer is to teach clients to ride and manage their own horses well. At shows we muck our own stalls, take turns feeding, watering and doing night check, and are expected to be able to warm our own horses up competently and safely. Anyone who can’t do that is not showing under this trainer, period.

I assume such places also exist in h/j land? Although looking at it from the outside, there does seem to be more a culture of dependence fostered in h/j, where some trainers seem to actively discourage clients from being able to manage their horses on their own.

[Demerara_Stables]

It makes me so happy to hear that there’s at least one show barn out there doing it this way!! Can I ask where you’re located?

[Bluey]

When we got our first gooseneck ranch stock trailer decades ago, friend said you will love it, but remember you have to let the tailgate down before driving out from under it.
When they got theirs, first time she used it she drove off with the tailgate up.

These many decades later, her DH still was telling her, you never live that down, every time she was going somewhere driving the GN, “don’t forget to put the tailgate down!”

[NoSuchPerson]

I think it’s easy to forget, or not even be aware of, the vast diversity of horse ownership, horse keeping, and riding that exists across the country. The “equestrian industrial complex” is very apparent in certain geographic areas and certain disciplines, but if you take a few steps back and look at the bigger picture, you can see just what a small percentage of the US horse world belongs to that equestrian industrial complex.

[Bluey]

@SamBee

It exists in the dressage world too, where Betsy shows up at the barn in her match matchy set and shiny boots and proceeds directly to the mounting block where she waits for the barn staff to bring Precious - immaculately groomed and tacked up - to her. As soon as Betsy dismounts, Precious is whisked away by the groom and Betsy gets into her Range Rover.

Happily, this doesn’t represent all dressage barns, or even the majority of them. For example one of my horses is in full training board, which includes all the usuals like feed, turn in / out, mucking, etc. plus boots, blanketing, and a 5 day/week training program. Owners choose any combination of pro rides or lessons for the 5 days depending on their schedules and the horse’s needs.

But on the days owners are there, they get their own horses from the field, groom, tack up, untack, etc. themselves. And the goal of the head trainer is to teach clients to ride and manage their own horses well. At shows we muck our own stalls, take turns feeding, watering and doing night check, and are expected to be able to warm our own horses up competently and safely. Anyone who can’t do that is not showing under this trainer, period.

I assume such places also exist in h/j land? Although looking at it from the outside, there does seem to be more a culture of dependence fostered in h/j, where some trainers seem to actively discourage clients from being able to manage their horses on their own.

Trainers should try to cater to whatever each client needs.
Some clients are older and have trouble getting around and those maybe a trainer should have someone that can help get the horse up and ready and put away.
Those riders can still ride, even if it can’t handle driving over, getting horse ready, riding, putting horse up and driving back home?
Over the years and in all kinds of riding centers, we had clients that wanted to do their own thing and others happy someone else was helping them.

[SamBee]

@Demerara_Stables

It makes me so happy to hear that there’s at least one show barn out there doing it this way!! Can I ask where you’re located?

I don’t like to be very specific online, but east coast.

[Rumorhasit93]

I worked for this trainer in h/j land. Sadly, she is now retired.

Rode for the US team on multiple occasions and trained top jumpers and eq.

At home everyone tacked up their own horse for lessons. We had CEOs, lawyers, and kiddos in top private schools. Didn’t matter. Although, if you had more than one horse, the Rider would only be responsible for tacking up their first and untacking their last. Kids got “detention” for leaving sweat marks on their horse or not cleaning their bits correftly.

We did have full grooming at shows, but that was because my trainer/boss was so invested in course walking, etc. and wanted you to watch everyone before you when possible.