Just wanted to say I’m so sorry this has happened to you, your client and the young rider ~
Jingles & AO this mess is resolved ASAP …must be torturous as well as heartbreaking ~
OP, where in SC? I live in SC. PM me if you want.
SCM1959
[QUOTE=goneriding24;8533977]
Yanno, if I had the money to do so, I’d haul her @$$ to court just to teach her a lesson and make myself feel better, $$ be damned. [/QUOTE]
I did this once to someone who just FLAGRANTLY whiffled out of a lease after I explicitly said, “I am holding the horse for you at x y and z expense, are you sure you want him?” and they said yes yes I want it, please hold it for me, etc etc, and then tried to PER VOICEMAIL THE DAY BEFORE PICK UP say they were soorrrrryyyy.
i took her ass to small claims and made her pay what holding the horse for her -at her express request!- had cost me.
Granted I worked at a big law firm at the time, so I went upstairs to my friends in the litigation department and had several high power lawyers help me get this small claims brief ready like it was going before the Supreme Court. I believe a binder, with tabs and exhibits, was sent in. I also inundated her with certified mail, all of which she ignored claiming she was going on some vacation where there is not even mail or phone (the Hebrides, apparently), but she did seem to be not quite so out of pocket after all because she did show up in court on the day. Hm.
I also took the entire day off work and drove my sorry ass down to Trenton just to make this lady explain herself and learn that we don’t tell people we are going to do x y and z, and then not do it, AND say we are “sorry” but not for values of “sorry” that include any kind of attempt to make it right or pay back what our flakiness has cost them.
Literally if she had just said, “Hey, I know you held the horse for me, can I pay half his bill for the week?” to try to make it I would have been fine with that.
Absent even that basic courtesy I hulked out and scored (for ONCE!) a victory against flaky asswipes everywhere.
Totally worth it, would do again.
1 Like
[QUOTE=Altered39;8535537]
And now come the taunting messages of haha, you will never see your pony, and how the Sheriff “obviously sides with her” since he couldn’t/wouldn’t make them relinquish the horse. I am beyond sick for my client and the kid.
The delay in total was 14 days (keep in mind trailer was traveling across the country). All was fine until within 24 hours of pick up when the trailer called to confirm and was told don’t bother coming. Then we were told she was “voiding the sale” and she referenced the bit she wrote on the BOS after it had already been signed on our end.
Owner and I are going back and forth right now… Nothing irks me more than watching good people get screwed and cons get away with it. The business side of my brain says you wouldn’t want your client to have ANY horse coming from this sort of hostile situation. The angry side of me wants to follow this through for the principle of it all. Owner wants to file with NetPosse… Gosh, I can’t even see straight. One thing is for sure, I don’t think we’ll ever buy anything in SC again. Amazing to me how their law allows someone to withhold another person’s legal property.[/QUOTE]
I would save ALL communications. Just because this one sheriff allowed this to happen when faced with her claim of overdue board / back board unpaid does not mean that South Carolina’s laws will.
Owner wants to file what with net posse? She has the horse and your money!
[QUOTE=Lord Helpus;8535383]
The courts generally interpret a date to extend by “a reasonable amount of time”. A delay due to weather is considered "reasonable’.
Many courts allow for someone from out of state to make an appearance via telephone (or Skype). Assuming that the contract says that the jurisdiction applicable if any legal issues arise is SC, you need to find out if you can make an appearance via telephone or Skype. This is not uncommon for a simple matter, just because of situations like yours.
If an attorney is hired, you may not have to make an appearance at all. He will represent you and will have your statements notarized.
Expect to pay between $5000 - $10,000 if you decide to fight this. Does your contract say that the losing party pays all costs and fees? If so, take the broad to court.
And, when all this is done, feel free to come back and tell everyone who she is. The truth is an absolute defense to defamation. :)[/QUOTE]
I agree by and large.
SC has a pretty large horse industry so there should be plenty of ‘case law’ to work from/review for the average non horse attorney.
Don’t know SC court/legal procedure. No personal experience in that state. But the usual procedure there is a "hearing’ in front of a judge to decide if there is reason to proceed with a trial and the expense of. Usually the plaintiff’s attorney can take care of this part. Depends on the particulars. Their attorney after reviewing the documentation will advise if their presence is needed or not.
This is why is is so important to properly document a horse sale. A well documented sale will take all of the guess work out of who is right and who is not. A vaguely documented sale leaves a lot of “he said, she said”. Especially with horses. As I have said in other comments on horse disputes and the hassles of going to court over. Judges and juries have little to no understanding of the business of horses.
But if it is well documented then it becomes nothing more than selling or buying of a ‘widget’. Very straight forward and no need for interpretation.
I gave a ‘case’ in point in my first post. The sale of the filly/mare was well documented, Purchase and Sale agreement with all of the terms of purchase, fair to both seller and buyer. A well written Bill of Sale also. My attorney told me it was not necessary for me to attend the hearing. The judge looked over the documents, signed by both parties and ruled in my favor. Open and shut.
Yes, in that case I had possession of the horse but without the Jockey Club papers she was of little to no value. No different that if I didn’t have possession. If the owner had not released the horse to my shipper the court would have order him to do so. Or be held in contempt and or be charged with theft. Among other things.
I was involved in another situation when the seller realized that they had undersold the horse. Because they had gotten calls offering substantially more money and said they were not going to sell me the horse for the money offered. But I had a signed Rock Solid Purchase and Sale agreement. A quick inexpensive letter from an attorney sorted it out in short order. They offered to ‘purchase’ the contract from me to get out of the sale.
As to the legal expense of this. If the OP has a reasonably well written Bill of Sale I can’t see how it would cost anything near $5,000 let alone $10,000 IME.
Without digging out the old file on the case I referenced. I think the attorney charged me around $1000-1500? And this was a pretty decent size law firm. Not one guy/gal sitting in a cheap office with a part time secretary.
There might be a bit more to this than the OP has given us. But the seller do sound like jerks. The seller wants to be paid board for the additional time the horse was with them before they will release it. Not unreasonable in the eyes of the law. No different than when someone has their car, tractor, lawn mower etc repaired. Just about ever shop I have been has a sign that says any thing left more than X days from the time it is repaired will be charged an additional X amount per day.
This should have been covered in the purchase of the horse. But it certainly falls under ‘usual and customary’. A widget is a widget. There is definitely more expense and labor looking after a horse which any judge or jury would understand even if they had never seen a horse in person.
I gather the OP spoke to the seller the day before the shipper showed up. I assume the extra board owed came up? The OP could have possibly sent a money order by overnight mail. Not always possible in some very rural areas. But IME most rural areas do have some place that a money order can be wired. Walmart has this service. That’s what I would have done.
“And, when all this is done, feel free to come back and tell everyone who she is. The truth is an absolute defense to defamation”
Exactly!!
[QUOTE=yankeeclipper;8535511]
If you want to pursue legally, I know some people have used this woman and speak highly of her.
http://kathleenreaganlaw.com/equinelaw.asp[/QUOTE]
Unless she is licensed to practice in SC all she can do is offer advise. But she may know of attorneys in SC to call.
[QUOTE=js;8535583]
Owner wants to file what with net posse? She has the horse and your money![/QUOTE] I believe by Owner she means her client (who paid for the horse and has the bill of sale) not the seller.
If paying the board would actually get them to release the horse, I think I’d just go ahead and pay the board. However, at this point they sound awfully mean spirited and I don’t even know if that would work. Frankly, I’d be going ahead with a lawsuit if possible just to knock them down a few pegs and perhaps save some other buyers pain in the future. (And have you considered that a letter from a lawyer may be all you need to put a little fear in them?)
Bill of sale has no specific terms, grounds for any termination, or anything pertaining to venue in case of dispute (I am aware of all these things as they are present in all of OUR purchase agreements).
It reads as follows: "I, (seller name)/seller, in consideration of $xxxx, do hereby sell, transfer, and convey to (my client)/buyer, the following horse:
Horse’s name/breed/sex/color/age/identifying marking
I, the undersigned Seller, do sell the aforementioned horse to the buyer for the amount shown and certify that the aforementioned horse is in good health, owned free and clear from all claims of any kind, and I, the undersigned sell, state that all of the info provided in this BOS is true and accurate.
I, the undersigned Buyer, acknowledge receipt of this BOS and understand there is no guarantee or warranty, expressed or implied, with respect to the aforementioned horse.
Dated and signed by both parties (my client first)."
Not really much more to the story. Seller and I were in contact this past Sunday, I let her know the trailer was shooting for Monday. All was fine (it was in text). Trailer informed me they hit weather but would be in touch with her direct to let her know their anticipated ETA. They called her Tuesday, at which point were told not to come or call again. She then messaged me and said the same thing, that she was voiding sale and to give her bank info to return client’s money. I asked her to be reasonable, as trailer was already halfway to her and due to arrive in the AM, and she refused.
After speaking to an attorney last night, and relaying what he told us to the seller, that it would be considered unlawful possession if they would not release the pony, THEN it turned into how she JUST had to pay the board on the pony (at her own family’s farm might I add), and scheduled it to have its feet trimmed. Money grab, anyone?
We are discussing offering to pay the ransom I mean board, but I’m sure the pasture this pony was in will now be at a premium price, if she would even accept it at all. Right now it’s her only thread that backed the police off, her sudden “unpaid debts”.
Some police officers are better or worse about dealing with these sorts of issues and it is entirely possible that another officer would have smacked her in the face and told her to file in small claims court for the board bill. I would file a claim to at least get it started against her because it then goes on official record and anyone else having an issue with her would also have access to it, then I would contact the local police again and see if they can do anything.
OP, the Bill of Sale looks than satisfactory I have add a bit more things to mine and always include the closing paragraph that basically states; any disputes and or legal action shall be governed under the laws of X state and that being the legal venue.
I hear you about the “Blood money”. I include boarding fees if not picked up by X date in the Purchase and Sale agreement. But rarely change anything when the buyer is making a good faith effort. Now if they turn out to be jerks that’s another story. The board gets more expensive by the day.
The majority of horse sales and purchases go smoothly. Maybe a few bumps in the road. But there are plenty that don’t and those are the ones that we hear about and why people are so “spooked” by the whole process. Don’t blame them. I know NO one is doing me a favor by buying a horse from me. But there are plenty of buyer that are real jerks also.
OP, the Bill of Sale looks satisfactory. I add a bit more things to mine and always include the closing paragraph that basically states; any disputes and or legal action shall be governed under the laws of X state and that being the legal venue.
I hear you about the “Blood money”. I include boarding fees if not picked up by X date in the Purchase and Sale agreement. But rarely change anything when the buyer is making a good faith effort. Now if they turn out to be jerks that’s another story. The board gets more expensive by the day.
The majority of horse sales and purchases go smoothly. Maybe a few bumps in the road. But there are plenty that don’t and those are the ones that we hear about and why people are so “spooked” by the whole process. Don’t blame them. I know NO one is doing me a favor by buying a horse from me. But there are plenty of buyers that are real jerks also.
If it were me, I’d offer to pay board - 14 days is half a month, but I would be asking who gave her permission to have the pony’s feet trimmed, since it no longer belonged to her.
Is there a website somewhere that the monthly board can be established?
Tell her since she backed out of the sale in the 11th hour, she owes for the shipper.
Just throwing in board depends on the ratio between the value of the pony and the proposed board price.
If the pony was $175,000 and a $2,500 prepurchase has already been done (to cite an extreme example), then if the seller is suddenly like, ‘I need an extra $1,500 for two weeks board at my mui caro show barn’ it may be easier to just pay it. (If you figure another $2,500 prepurchase for the replacement equine you are already ahead.)
If the pony was $3,000 and she wants $950 because it sat in her field for two weeks that changes the math considerably.
That said, I do think it is reasonable and fair to pay the FAIR VALUE (not some jacked up value) of board for YOUR horse that is sitting in HER stall for two extra weeks, no matter what is causing the delay or whether the delay is even your fault. If you are saying you own it, you also own its bill. Why should she feed a pony gratis for this client just because a shipper is delayed?
Eta: agree with the person who pointed out that they caused most of the delay by refusing to release the horse and thus are owed max one day board.
I’m a little confused; the shipper was turned away for being 24 hours late. If the seller denied the shipper then why should the buyer pay for the extra board, other than one day, as the seller wouldn’t allow the horse off property???
Some great advice on this thread. I hope you can get this worked out in a way that is satisfactory to you and your client, OP. Jingles.
[QUOTE=meupatdoes;8535796]
Just throwing in board depends on the ratio between the value of the pony and the proposed board price.
If the pony was $175,000 and a $2,500 prepurchase has already been done (to cite an extreme example), then if the seller is suddenly like, ‘I need an extra $1,500 for two weeks board at my mui caro show barn’ it may be easier to just pay it. (If you figure another $2,500 prepurchase for the replacement equine you are already ahead.)
If the pony was $3,000 and she wants $950 because it sat in her field for two weeks that changes the math considerably.
That said, I do think it is reasonable and fair to pay the FAIR VALUE (not some jacked up value) of board for YOUR horse that is sitting in HER stall for two extra weeks, no matter what is causing the delay or whether the delay is even your fault. If you are saying you own it, you also own its bill. Why should she feed a pony gratis for this client just because a shipper is delayed?[/QUOTE]
But if I drop 6 figures on a horse, I think I can afford the lawyer…
[QUOTE=Alagirl;8535889]
But if I drop 6 figures on a horse, I think I can afford the lawyer…[/QUOTE]
??
Where did the post you quoted mention affording a lawyer?
I thought it was about comparing <1% to 30%.
Probably <1% of a difference to the overall transaction is not worth hiring a lawyer over, …or?
[QUOTE=Fig;8535817]
I’m a little confused; the shipper was turned away for being 24 hours late. If the seller denied the shipper then why should the buyer pay for the extra board, other than one day, as the seller wouldn’t allow the horse off property???[/QUOTE]
I took it to mean that after the 14 day delay, the shipper was due to arrive on a Monday but was delayed until Tuesday so now I am totally confused 
