I’ve tried searching the forums but have not yet found a threat on insurance (or maybe I searched incorrectly) anyway, I have a 7 y/o TB gelding that I use for dressage and was wondering what other Amatuer owners use equine insurance and what companies/providers people have had positive experiences with.
Hartford will insure horses for medical who are valued under 15K. Great American and Diamond state no longer offers medical policies for these horses.
There are lots of threads, and while I’m sure you’ll get great responses, it’s worth retrying the search as there is a lot of wisdom collected on this forum about it.
I don’t normally use the search function on the forums because I always have trouble with it, too. What works for me is going to Google and typing in something like “chronicleforums horse insurance.” It’ll give you a short list of results and then below that you can click on “More results from www.chronofhorse.com.” Also, near the bottom of the page on this thread, you’ll see a list of “Similar threads” that may provide you with even more information.
To answer your original question, though, I’m using Markel to insure my new horse. I have a great agent and so far, I really like them.
basically - you have to decided what you want insurance for. Replacement value or major medical?
I think most of us have it for major medical. Basically you pick the lowest value that you can to replace your horse e.g. if I owned a horse going at st. george, worth $75k, I might insure his value as $30k because at least I could buy a decent young horse, and then add on medical benefits to the base mortality.
from my semi lazy research it seems like the $30k is the break point where the mortality premium starts going way up.
I also use Markel, but have not had to claim anything so can’t speak to that.
I’ve used both Hartford and Diamond State. Be sure to read the coverage closely because there can be huge differences. In my experience Diamond State has better coverage but a friend just went to renew hers and the coverage was greatly reduced to the point she decided to self insure. My renewal is up later this year. If the coverage is reduced I too will self insure
I use Hallmark Horse. I think they use American insurance but not sure. If you go to their website hallmarkhorse.com you can get a free quote. I pay 600$ per year which includes major medical/surgical, and mortality. AKA… if she dies, they will pay me her value (which you tell them upfront and you have to explain where you came up with that number). I didn’t have insurance for her until she had an accident and had to go to the hospital. Where she racked up a 3,000 vet bill. Versus if I had insurance, I would have only had to pay 300$ deductible. You can pay the premium monthly too, and they’re super nice at Hallmark!
ITS TOTALLY WORTH IT!!! trust me!!!
Taylor Harris/Lloyds of London. Awesome! I will not use anyone else.
If you want medical, you have to pay for mortality as well. You can either pay insurance every year, or put the money into a savings account (self insure). It is always a gamble. If your horse is “Valued” at $15,000, your insurance will be roughly $700 - $800/year (which will probably cover up to $10k in major medical). If your horse doesn’t need any major medical services in 5 to 12 years, you come out ahead.
The nice thing - if you DO have a major issue (such as colic), there is no struggle to determine if you can afford a $10k surgery - you have insurance. The bad thing - sometimes insurance can force you into a decision you might not have made otherwise. And they don’t cover everything. And if you have to suddenly put your horse down, you need their permission to do so. I ran into both these issues several years ago :no:
First, a young horse who broke his foot - major coffin joint break. The insurance company said I had to do the surgery, then he wouldn’t be covered after that year. The break was bad - he was probably never going to be performance sound, but I was pushed into the surgery. And the non-covered costs were close to $1,000. And I had a lame horse - who is still lame 10 years later. But had to go through the trauma of surgery.
A few years before that, my beloved riding horse had something go really wrong - he went neuro, dangerously neuro in a matter of hours. We couldn’t even get him to a vet hospital - he was unable to stand and was falling over into things. It was a weekend, and we were unable to get hold of someone at the insurance company who would authorize us to euthanize - this was a horse who was bloodied from running into the stall walls, and was totally non-responsive to any treatment. Badly in shock. Obviously dying - and my vet pulled out a camcorder, shot a few seconds of video, then put him down for me. So I had proof to show the insurance company that we had to euthanize without permission (the vet had been through these kinds of issues before, he knew what to do).
This happened 12 years ago, and it still upsets me. Then the insurance company didn’t want to pay out - so still dealing with the horror of watching my horse dying, now I had to spend 3 months fighting with the insurance company over it.
So - I tell these two stories to point out you DO lose some control when your horse is insured. And it isn’t always easy.
I am currently trying to decide whether to insure my riding horse. And leaning towards just self-insuring. Putting the $700 or $800 into a savings account every year.
[QUOTE=cuatx55;8026349]
Hartford will insure horses for medical who are valued under 15K. Great American and Diamond state no longer offers medical policies for these horses.[/QUOTE]
Actually, this isn’t true about Diamond State. Their program has a medical option available for any value of horse.
The only thing I’d really envision using insurance for is colic surgery if my horse needed it. However, I too have seen a lot of people get in situations where the insurance company forced them to do things that weren’t necessarily in the best interest of the horse.
With Smartpak offering their “Colicare” program, I’m seriously considering self-insuring from now on. If Smarkpak offers up to $7500 towards colic surgery, I can easily come up with the remaining couple of $k towards surgery if necessary.
I don’t know that I would use insurance for anything else other than mortality. I think I’m better off putting that $600-800/year into a separate bank account and using that for horse related expenses that come up unexpectedly.
What happens when a horse turns 15 or 16? I’ve heard, though not confirmed, that some insurance companies won’t insure a horse past that age? The only other thing I can think of is having mortality insurance so that if the horse dies, I get $X towards a new horse. how does that part work?
[QUOTE=SnicklefritzG;8027697]
What happens when a horse turns 15 or 16? I’ve heard, though not confirmed, that some insurance companies won’t insure a horse past that age? The only other thing I can think of is having mortality insurance so that if the horse dies, I get $X towards a new horse. how does that part work?[/QUOTE]
I think the horse can always be insured - it just gets a LOT more expensive;) The standard mortality rate is 2.7% to 3% of the horse’s declared value (usually the purchase price), but after a certain age, that % goes out the window. Major medical is another fee, then you can add loss of use (very expensive) for another fee.
The other thing to realize with an insurance company - they are not concerned with making your horse performance sound (unless you carry loss of use), they are concerned with making them pasture sound. My story about my lame horse was a success story as far as the insurance company is concerned.
I don’t want to sound like you shouldn’t insure - just point out it isn’t all perfect.
[QUOTE=MysticOakRanch;8027198]
If you want medical, you have to pay for mortality as well. You can either pay insurance every year, or put the money into a savings account (self insure). It is always a gamble. If your horse is “Valued” at $15,000, your insurance will be roughly $700 - $800/year (which will probably cover up to $10k in major medical). If your horse doesn’t need any major medical services in 5 to 12 years, you come out ahead.
The nice thing - if you DO have a major issue (such as colic), there is no struggle to determine if you can afford a $10k surgery - you have insurance. The bad thing - sometimes insurance can force you into a decision you might not have made otherwise. And they don’t cover everything. And if you have to suddenly put your horse down, you need their permission to do so. I ran into both these issues several years ago :no:
First, a young horse who broke his foot - major coffin joint break. The insurance company said I had to do the surgery, then he wouldn’t be covered after that year. The break was bad - he was probably never going to be performance sound, but I was pushed into the surgery. And the non-covered costs were close to $1,000. And I had a lame horse - who is still lame 10 years later. But had to go through the trauma of surgery.
.[/QUOTE]
So is their theory that it is less expensive for them to have the surgery done than for the horse to be euthanized and pay out the insured value of the horse?
I’ve seen some people go through some very tough times with insurance companies. Cases where everyone, vet included, thought the horse should be put down, but the insurance company said no. Why should the horse suffer needlessly?
I got insurance on my horses for the first time last year. I did a lot of looking around and finally decided on Horizon. While I’ve not needed to file a claim, they’ve been very helpful and easy to work with.
For my horses, it wasn’t worth it to me to do major medical. I have a savings account for that. But for me, if my horse Red died tomorrow, I would NOT have the money laying around to buy a horse that would replace him at his current training level. So that’s why I chose to insure for mortality. Along with that policy, I also get $5,000 that can be used for emergency colic surgery. Might not pay for all of it, but for the plan rate, it’s not a bad deal.
For both my horses, it’s only about $300 a year, which to me is good for the piece of mind.
I would call several companies and get quotes and get an idea of what they offer. Then you can decide if insuring your horse is right for you, if it’s worth the money, and what you want (medical or mortality, or both).
Whatever you do, just do NOT do a “Loss of Use” plan. They are not worth it!!! (and they take your horse if you utilize it)
I got insurance on my horses for the first time last year. I did a lot of looking around and finally decided on Horizon. While I’ve not needed to file a claim, they’ve been very helpful and easy to work with.
For my horses, it wasn’t worth it to me to do major medical. I have a savings account for that. But for me, if my horse Red died tomorrow, I would NOT have the money laying around to buy a horse that would replace him at his current training level. So that’s why I chose to insure for mortality. Along with that policy, I also get $5,000 that can be used for emergency colic surgery. Might not pay for all of it, but for the plan rate, it’s not a bad deal.
For both my horses, it’s only about $300 a year, which to me is good for the piece of mind.
I would call several companies and get quotes and get an idea of what they offer. Then you can decide if insuring your horse is right for you, if it’s worth the money, and what you want (medical or mortality, or both).
Whatever you do, just do NOT do a “Loss of Use” plan. They are not worth it!!! (and they take your horse if you utilize it)
I highly recommend Blue Bridle insurance agency. They offer several companies. I chose XL and am very happy after switching from a terrible agent and company.
[QUOTE=SnicklefritzG;8027758]
So is their theory that it is less expensive for them to have the surgery done than for the horse to be euthanized and pay out the insured value of the horse?
I’ve seen some people go through some very tough times with insurance companies. Cases where everyone, vet included, thought the horse should be put down, but the insurance company said no. Why should the horse suffer needlessly?[/QUOTE]
Yes, insurance companies (like any business) are in it for profit. So if it is cheaper to do surgery, then that is the route they will push you. And in my case, it was a University surgeon who also pushed me that direction. I found out later, that was very much his normal MO - much more about doing surgeries then what was best for the horse. If I’d known then what I know now…
And once your horse has had a surgery, that part of their body is no longer insurable. It is a “pre-existing condition”. And follow up therapies (joint injections for example) are not covered. Treatment is covered, therapy is not.
I do believe, for things like colic, it is nice to have the insurance cushion. And as beau points out - if you can’t afford to replace your horse, then mortality is a good option. Although again, realize the insurance company has to authorize a euthanasia - and if your horse can be maintained as a pasture sound horse, they will not authorize it. So if you go ahead and do it because it is best for your horse, you give up the ability to collect on the policy.
I would NEVER consider getting insurance advice from an Internet BB. Crazy advice you are getting from non-licensed people who know only what they have heard or personally experienced about insurance. Call an agent, assess your options and get INFORMED education. You are not obligated to buy anything. Then if you decide to insure your horse, do it. If you decide it’s not worth the expense to you, then don’t. No one can make that decision for you. This from a retired insurance agent.
I insure, and from the start told my agent I hope I’m wasting my money.
My mare popped her head (literally - pressure burst to the bone when she got it stuck in a fence and pulled) while I was out of work last year. I was thankful to have the insurance so if it hadn’t healed as easily as it did I would have had coverage for additional procedures. As it was, the insurance paid more than half the price of the surgery and it was helpful while I was between jobs. It didn’t pay the cost of the premiums, but given the timing of it I was grateful because even though I wasn’t short on money, I didn’t know when I would find the new job and was conserving all money I could.
Absolutely get insurance.
I’ll have to check who we use, but it is very reasonably prices, however only covers the value of the horse if the horse is lost or no longer “usable”.
When my gelding colicked, broke a hind leg rolling into a fence, and was found deceased, we fortunately had my trainer’s sister (who is a vet) out and evaluated. Insurance wouldn’t have covered a loss from colic alone, but it was a very bad break and even without colic, he wouldn’t have survived. Absolutely get all of your horses insured. It’s not good to think about, but I wouldn’t have been able to get another horse if mine hadn’t been insured.
