Equine nutrition: Thrives food

[JB]

@JBob

How do you know the NSC is 24%?

At some point people sent samples in to Equi-Analytical and received the sugar and starch. I don’t remember the breakdown, but the total came to 24%.

How much of it are you feeding? I’m curious why you’re interested in what other people think of it, when it appears to be working for you.

NSC has to be taken in context, just like every other measure of anything. 1lb of 24% is highly unlikely to cause problems for even most IR horses. 10lb of it is not guaranteed to cause problems for metabolically healthy horses. Goodness knows there are horses who have managed to survive without (many) problems on 10lb of 35% NSC sweet feeds :eek:

Likewise, “the best” is useless without context. And “the best” never applies to an entire population.

[JBob2]

I feed about 2 lbs. in the morning and 2 lbs. in the evening. I’m always looking for the best for my horses so I check various forums to see what the latest is. I’m surprised that the NSC is 24%. My horse doesn’t have the strongest hooves and I’m wondering if this could be part of it. Otherwise he’s great. The only other feed I’ve considered was Bluebonnet Intensity Ex-factor. It has a NSC of 10%,but I’ve not tried it. I’ve talked to Dale several times and I believe in what he is trying to accomplish with his feed. A friend of mine is a trainer and he highly recommends Thrive. His horses look great but that doesn’t mean its good for every horse I guess.

[JB]

4lb for an average horse isn’t a huge amount. But 4lb of 24% NSC and some hoof issues and I’d absolutely drop it, and choose something much better fortified and balanced, with a lower NSC.

Dale spouts a lot of junk, and hides behind “just trust me, everything is how it’s supposed to be” and simply will not tell people direct answers. He will NEVER tell anyone the NSC because he says it doesn’t matter when it’s about forage. He loves to tell everyone it’s grain-free, while somehow missing that grain sorghum is #3 in the ingredient list. Most of the rest of his talk about this is just a 180 to everything that has been known about basic nutrition and equine digestion for decades.

[Scribbler]

Why are your horses hooves poor?

If the problem stems from laminitis and founder, the NSC could be a factor.

If the hooves are fragile or shelly that is more likely to do with nutrition, either minerals or protein. You might want to consider a supplement.

If the hooves are distorted or contracted or thrushy, that’s probably a trim balance question.

[JBob2]

The hoof problem is that he is fairly tenderfooted. He’s barefoot and I want to keep him that way. I use boots when in rocky terrain. I have a very good farrier, so it’s not a trimming problem. Any thoughts on Bluebonnet feeds? Any other feed that you guys recommend?

[Scribbler]

@JBob

The hoof problem is that he is fairly tenderfooted. He’s barefoot and I want to keep him that way. I use boots when in rocky terrain. I have a very good farrier, so it’s not a trimming problem. Any thoughts on Bluebonnet feeds? Any other feed that you guys recommend?

Have you had the hooves x-rayed? That will tell you if there is any coffin bone rotation which can make a horse tender. Also if he has unusually thin soles.

Is he a horse that whose feet look like they should be good and tough, or do they look small and compromised to begin with?

As far as having a good trim, I never take anyone’s word on that without seeing photos!

He might have well balanced feet but the farrier is taking off too much sole for this horse.

Also perhaps the horse is sensitve on rocky rocky ground because he lives on soft ground and hasn’t had to build up hoof for rocks. Boots are an excellent choice in this situation.

As far as feed I am not familiar with American brands but it depends on how many concentrated calories your horse needs to stay fit and energetic.

He may only need hay and a ration balancer or hay and a couple handfuls of beet pulp plus a vitamin mineral supplement. I feed a supplement plus beet pulp alfalfa cubes flax oats salt, the concntrated feed adjusted to workload and energy level over the course of the year.

Also if the horse is indeed metabolic to some extent it is worth testing the nsc of your hay. Ive had local grass hay test at 24% NSC which is not uncommon here. I’ve also seen horses founder who were fed it, and I didn’t like the fat pockets on my horse. This was coarse mature hay with low protein that people thought was safe low nutrient free choice pony hay.

[JBob2]

Well, my farrier isn’t taking off any sole at all. His feet look great on the outside. I do know that last summer when I used a grazing muzzle, his feet improved. Sorry for so many questions but how do you know whether to use a feed or a ration balancer? Can anyone provide recommendations for a low NSC feed?

[Simkie]

Your horse may have some laminitis–getting the vet out for radiographs would be helpful. That’s really the only way you can see sole depth and if there is any rotation.

Ration balancers are fed when the horse needs fewer calories than the minimum recommended poundage on your grain of choice. They offer all of the protein, vitamins and minerals needed in a pound or two of feed. Purina and Triple Crown have broad distribution and they both offer a ration balancer. Ration balancers as a rule have a low NSC (although it is still worth confirming.)

What brands do you have locally available?

Here is the Triple Crown option. You feed a pound to a pound and a half a day. NSC is 9.8%.

Here is the Purina product. You feed 1-2 pounds a day. The NSC is 15%.

[JBob2]

Triple Crown and obviously Purina. Are you talking about Triple Crown Lite or the ration balancer? I don’t think my guy needs a ration balancer. Not crazy about Purina. What about ADM or Progressive feeds?

[Simkie]

No, I’m talking about the ration balancer. I even linked it above. Why don’t you think you need a ration balancer? They’re often great for horses that don’t need much in the way of supplemental calories.

[JBob2]

My guy is fairly big and I don’t think he needs fewer calories than the minimum recommended.

[Simkie]

There is no single “recommended minimum” on calories.

The recommended minimum pounds fed differs from item to item. This is found on the bag somewhere, or on the tag. It’s also often on the website for the feed. A product that is suitable for delivering a high amount of calories to a hard keeper is not the same product as what is appropriate for an easy keeper.

If you feed the easy keeper the recommended minimum pounds of the product designed for the hard keeper, the easy keeper will be obese. If you feed less than the recommended minimum pounds, the easy keeper will be missing out on nutrients.

The purpose of a ration balancer is to deliver the needed nutrition to a horse that doesn’t require a high amount of supplemental calories.

If you have an easy keeper, which it sure sounds like you have, if he needs a muzzle for grazing, he’s getting the calories he needs from his forage–which is great, that’s were horses SHOULD be getting their calories. You need something to ensure his protein needs are being met, along with his nutritional (vitamin and mineral) needs. And that’s exactly what a ration balancer does.

[JBob2]

Sounds like maybe the ration balancer is the way to go because he is an easy keeper for sure. Any experience with Progressive ration balancers?

[Simkie]

The brand is well regarded. Here’s the product you’re looking for:

ProAdvantage. Feed 1-2 pounds a day. 12% NSC.

Or this one:

ProAdvantage Grass Formula. Feed 1-2 pounds a day. 12% NSC.

[JBob2]

One last question. How important is non-gmo feed?

[Scribbler]

@JBob

One last question. How important is non-gmo feed?

That depends whether you are deliberately boycotting GMO in all areas of your life or not. If you are not taking a large principled stand against GMOs then they do not matter one little bit.

You do realise that there are only a few horse feeds that could be GMO, namely alfalfa, soy, feed corn, and beet pulp. Oats and flax do not come GMO period.

If you don’t care about eating GMO foods personally I honestly can’t see why you’d care about feeding them to your horse. Ditto organics.

Note also that Thrives says they don’t use GMO grain. They don’t say they use no GMO foods ingredients. Alfalfa and soy are not technically speaking grain!

Your horse needs either a ration balancer or a vitamin mineral supplement to ensure he is getting his RDI. Thrives is not fortified so probably is missing a few.

If you want to find out more about nutrition I recommend Julie Getty’s book Feed Your Horse Like a Horse.

If his feet improved when you limited access to grazing I think that is a sure sign there is something metabolic going on.

[JBob2]

Thanks so much for all the information guys. You’ve been really helpful and I appreciate it very much!

[candyappy]

@blackdimond88

Glad the feed works well for your horse’s. I feed a 14 percent calf feed, cheap horse loves it. And looks fabulous…
Curious how much does the thrive feed cost per bag?

I would be careful. There can be things in cattle feed that are not appropriate/ safe for horses to eat.

[blackdimond88]

@candyappy

I would be careful. There can be things in cattle feed that are not appropriate/ safe for horses to eat.

Been feeding it for many years with no issues. Horse wont eat pellets. Calf feed is oats cracked corn, barely and molasses. Then a vitamin mineral added in. He was raised on calf feed.

[Scribbler]

The antibiotic monesin that they put in some cattle feed is toxic to horses and some have died horribly just from cross contamination of horse feed in the mill. Presumably calf feed doesn’t contain monensin.