Anyone have a horse with EOTRH? Last thread on this is over a year old and only had a couple replies. I had a (wonderful) dentist/veterinarian out for my 27 year old pony last night. I knew his teeth were not-ideal, from deterioration due to age. That was true, and he needed a fair amount of work for that-- but he also was diagnosed with EOTRH. He’s lost one bottom front tooth from it recently, and it looks 2 other front 2 need to go. This in addition to 2 molars that need to be pulled… I’m worried about the poor guy. Interested to hear from anyone who managed a horse with this condition.
me! you’re probably talking about chism’s thread, right?
which is your guy, resorption or hypercementosis (or both?).
ours is resorption only so far, needs his upper fronts extracted eventually… but apparently, it’s something that needs to be done in clinic and would run $2000 easily… he has a battery of other issues (unrelated, neurological) and is retired and older, so we’re not going that route and are just keeping him healthy/happy until he shows us its time.
we diagnosed it when dentist came out and saw draining tracts along his upper incisors… did you x-ray yet? i did not know molars were affected too, i thought it was only incisors.
it’s so frustrating, it’s really not a well-known disease and there is not much that can be done besides extraction and case-by-case management. however, my vet has done a few extractions and say that post-extraction the horses adapt just fine and don’t mind the loss of teeth at all.
Re-absorbtion. We did x-ray and the condition is quite apparent. Plus he apparently very recently lost one front tooth, chipped in half sometime in the last week or so, I think. The one next to it is wiggling loose, so what is shown on the x-rays is very in line with what you clinically see-- the roots of those front teeth are fading away 
The EOTRH is only affecting his front teeth, the 2 molars that need to go are from unrelated age-related degenerative issues. Basically they’re worn out, loose, and are developing pockets around them where food is getting trapped. So they also need to be removed but not due to EOTRH.
Dentist was advocating a pretty conservative approach. She did not suggest removing all the front teeth, just the 2.5 bad ones (I guess technically he needs 4.5 teeth extracted, all told). This horse is 27 but tooth-issues aside is healthy as a horse. He acts his age but looks 10 years younger. He’s been retired for years but is very very healthy aside from the teeth.
He’s not a hard keeper but it’s been a long time since he could actually eat hay. He thinks he’s eating it. It all falls out of his mouth as cuds. He’s not actually eating any of it.
He does ok with grain and BEEP. I wouldn’t call him a PICKY eater exactly but he’s got a maximum fill volume and that’s all he’ll eat. If you get the food TOO wet, he’d rather not eat it. He won’t do a mash. He will do regular Sentinel LS wetted slightly. I’ve been adding BEEP which he will accept until we hit the quantity maximum, rice bran, and a fat supplement. He eats that ok most days. He’s a VERY slow eater and when the other horses finish, sometimes he decides he’s finished too even though he’s only eaten a bit. I wouldn’t say it’s a struggle to keep the weight on, but it’s not automatic either. But there’s been grass. This will be the first time since the teeth got so bad that we’re going into winter. No grass=I’m worried about him keeping the weight on. He’s not really interested in soaked hay pellets/cubes. I have not tried chaff hay but I am thinking about that.
The dentist is suggesting a more conservative approach than taking all the teeth-- take the bad ones now, check regularly, and as the other ones go bad-- take them as they go.
My struggle is that yes, this is an aged horse-- but ASIDE from the teeth he’s in amazing health. If this was a young horse, I’d be inclined to take ALL the teeth now. BUT his molars/other teeth are in bad shape. So it’s not as though the EOTRH is the ONLY mouth issue. And although he’s in good overall veterinary health, he is older and I don’t know how well he’d bounce back from full removal. I am just trying to weigh out if the conservative or more aggressive approach makes more sense.
If he is healthy now, I might go with the extractions right now… especially if he has a pound or two he could shed without negative affects. Did your vet/dentist want to do a standing extraction or clinic?
I don’t think they miss the incisors, really: they certainly don’t need them to eat grain… the molars… well maybe he’s a slow eater because of the EOTRH?
I don’t know if it helps, but ours is on Poulin FibreMax. I have a really hard time getting him to eat Sentinel LS; even wetted down it’s apparently too bulky and time-consuming to eat for his delicate sensibilities. He will walk away from the LS (!!!) rather than eat it… but has never done that with any other grain.
Since my guy is neurological, already a hard keeper (has always been… since he was young), and has other issues, we don’t want to compound them with the extraction… and as much as I love him, I just can’t justify $2k on an older, retired horse with a host of other issues. Since your guy is relatively healthy I imagine he’d bounce back quite well.
We have one at our barn that has it. Had all upper incisors removed in one session, then about 2 months later vet removed all bottom incisors in one session. Horse is doing great, eats just fine, uses his lips to pull up food. I personally think that is easier on the horse than doing repeated procedures.
My horse has it. The treatment is to remove all the incisors as they will all be affected and sometimes canines are also.
My guy had 3 removed by Dr. Jack Easley and told me to just remove them in stages as they seem to bug him. I’m a veterinarian so can do so as needed a bit easier than others.
Clients can also stage the extractions. Just watch for not wanting to bite into treats or carrots or any other abnormal chewing. Also lots do not like their teeth looked as they are painful.
They will learn to eat without all incisors even grass. Cow, deer, sheep, or goats, etc do not have upper incisors.
Here is my guys pictures. His rads were impressive as well, but I don’t have copies on me.
Lovely smile: http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a130/JLM179/12472509_10102936481220083_1580209441066461895_n_zpsz7dlaoq9.jpg
Sleepy old man:
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a130/JLM179/13912775_10102936482088343_18886796366993364_n_zps6ajl6qqu.jpg
He had a bad smell to his breath that I knew was his teeth, but I couldn’t find the source. I then saw the one bad tooth and within 2 weeks the rest showed up.
[QUOTE=vxf111;8954571]
Anyone have a horse with EOTRH? Last thread on this is over a year old and only had a couple replies. I had a (wonderful) dentist/veterinarian out for my 27 year old pony last night. I knew his teeth were not-ideal, from deterioration due to age. That was true, and he needed a fair amount of work for that-- but he also was diagnosed with EOTRH. He’s lost one bottom front tooth from it recently, and it looks 2 other front 2 need to go. This in addition to 2 molars that need to be pulled… I’m worried about the poor guy. Interested to hear from anyone who managed a horse with this condition.[/QUOTE]
yes …my 25+yr old wb geld had severe EORTH …this past April we did Dental radiographs which confirmed and showed the extent of his dental disease …so we did surgery and removed all of the top and bottom teeth in the front …he’s done fantastic …I wish I had done the suegery on him sooner because of the pain, discomfort an infection he had been living with for so long …we used Dr Dave Early …he’s the vet who is the specialist in EORTH and the resident dental surgeon at Cornell…I opted for him over New Bolten Center because I didn’t want my old senior horse to be put under general anesthesia …Dr Early does them standing …he’s doing great! No longer head shy …and his acth numbers came down dramatically …they were falsely elevated due to the severe pain and inflammation he ha going in his body
You could do a consult with dr brown at va tech (Marion Dupont in leesburg). He’s a dental specialist and has done wonders for my friend’s 30 year old gelding who presented a few years ago with serious issues (fwiw he had gotten regular dental work but without the ability to really see the whole mouth as specialists can things are easy to miss).
I take mine every 2 years just to make sure nothing is falling through the cracks.
Because the universe hates me, he also came back positive for cushings. He has NO SYMPTOMS other than the EOTRH. No furry coat. No fat deposits. No heavy drinking/peeing. No laminitis. No slow healing. He literally has NONE of the signs. But he apparently has cushings too.
I have been crushed this year. Just crushed. Had to retire my main horse with terrible navicular and involvement of the DDFT. I don’t know from day-to-day if I am doing the right thing buting him up and keeping him going. And now Stoney has EOTRH AND cushings.
Oh no… I’m so sorry vxf111… No advice, just lots of ((hugs)) for you and Stoney.
[QUOTE=vxf111;8962668]
Because the universe hates me, he also came back positive for cushings. He has NOT SYMPTOMS other than the EOTRH. No furry coat. No fat deposits. No heavy drinking/peeing. No laminitis. No slow healing. He literally has NONE of the signs. But he apparently has cushings too.
I have been crushed this year. Just crushed. Had to retire my main horse with terrible navicular and involvement of the DDFT. I don’t know from day-to-day if I am doing the right thing buting him up and keeping him going. And now Stoney has EOTRH AND cushings.[/QUOTE]
If you don’t mind me asking, what is his ACTH level? What lab did the test?
Its much better to catch it early!! Start treatment now and hopefully you can avoid clinical signs!
106 tested by Cornell
Hugs and Jingles to you and your horse. My gelding 26 was diagnosed with EOTRH today as well. He has cushings been on prescend for 5 years now. Looks great, body score good and still eating. Noticed a changed in him the past 5 months. Feeling relieved I now know the reason for his unwillingness to do things we used to do. I’m scared about pulling the teeth but feel more comfortable after reading this forum. Still, worried about doing it in the winter in Boston area when there is no grass for him and a question as to what he will be able to eat. Keep us posted please on how your horse makes out.
I just had a horse get all of his uppers and lowers extracted. He took it like a champ. He was furious that I stalled him the night he came home. Ate food right away. It is about $2k between the surgery and the recheck.
EORTH/Cushings
My horse that had severe EORTH also had an extremely high acth…after we did the dental surgery we retested acth a few months later and his numbers went significantly down to almost normal levels…my vet said it was falsely elevated due to the extreme pain and infection that he had been living with due to his dental disease
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Update…
As it turns out, the Sentinel LS wasn’t a bad feed to begin with. Although I didn’t choose it for that reason, it’s low sugar/starch, the second ingredient is BEEP, and it can be fed as a complete feed. So… now I feel slightly better that I wasn’t feeding something terrible for him pre-diagnosis.
That being said, the TC Senior is soft and extruded but the Sentinel LS is large pellets, so I think the TC Senior is going to be easier to chew and better for him overall. He’s switching over and seems to like the TC Senior fine.
He also started on the Prascend. He’s eating one pill per day by hand, no objections to that.
The only thing with the feed is is… overall amount. I would like him to be eating 10lbs/day of the TC Senior as a complete feed. I will never get him to eat that much. Never. 5 lbs is 2.5 big scoops. He will not eat more than 1.5-2 scoops per meal. No way, no how. I experimented this weekend with bringing him in at lunch… didn’t help. He ate a scoop at lunch but left a scoop behind at dinner. The overall amount he would eat in the day didn’t change, he just spread it out over more meals. He’s just not a big eater and not hungry and I don’t know that any amount of wrangling is going to change that. If I can get him to eat close to 2 scoops at breakfast and dinner… that will be roughly 8 lbs per day. I just don’t think I can get him to eat more. Unless he makes a huge turnaround in appetite once his teeth are extracted (more on that later) which is possible. Maybe that will be enough? He’s a pony, retired, relatively inactive…
Still adding the FB-100 fat supplement (which is like Cool Calories, or oil which others suggested) and the rice bran, which is also high fat. He likes those things and they take up minimal space in the bucket so I am inclined to keep them.
I always weight tape monthly and I’ve actually been getting him to steadily gain a SMALL AMOUNT over the past few months, even with the bad teeth that I was unaware of. I’d like 30 more pounds on him for the winter. Maybe I’m just not going to get it? Or maybe everything will be better once the worst teeth are removed?
Chopped hay was EXCITING for the two days and now is not even worth looking at. I will still offer that available anytime he’s in the stall but I don’t think he’s going to eat more than a negligible amount-- at least until the worst teeth are extracted.
Dentist vet didn’t want to do the extractions until he’d been on the Prascend for a month. So the extractions are scheduled for early January.
I am hoping the extractions make a big difference. If not, I think I have his diet STABLE if not exactly ideal.
Make sure you slowly introduce the Prascend …you’re supposed to give 1/4 tablet for 4 days, then increase to 1/2 tab for 4 days, then 3/4 tab for 4 days , then 1 full tab…otherwise he most likely will go off his feed completely due to the Pergolide Veil …1 in 10 horses completely lose their appetite if not slowly introduced to this drug …read the info on Prascends website and the packet inside the box of meds …trust me I found out the hard way
My vet didn’t have me ramp up. So fat it’s been a week and his appetite seems to be the same. Luckily!
A friend at my boarding barn has a horse w/ EORTH and they extracted all of his front teeth. He has no problem with molars so has not been impacted as far as being able to eat properly. He’s about 25? Morgan. Cute as a button because w/o the front teeth, if he’s really relaxed, his tongue hangs out. LOL!
As for the eating…You might find that the feed is a bit more palatable to him if you soak some alfalfa cubes with it. I had an old guy who could not have hay and you’re right…that’s an awful lot of feed to try to do in just 2 feedings. I was able to do 3-4 and give him lots of time in the AM & PM when he could be separated from the others. At one point, he had his own paddock so I could put out his ration for the day and let him nibble as he wished.
Good luck w/ your old guy! I love the oldies!
This popped up on my facebook feed
http://www.equinews.com/article/dental-issues-and-weight-gain-aged-horses
