Don’t know if this is the right forum to post this, but do any of you own your own ultrasound machines for repro?
We are considering buying one for our farm as we spend a good deal each year anyhow on ultrasounding our mares.
If you own a machine, I’d like a critique of what brand and whether or not you’d get that brand again.
Also, ease of use and level of difficulty learning to use it.
Pros and cons of purchasing a used or reconditioned model.
Any responses would be appreciated.
We do our own ultrasounding. I have a great vet who helped me learn the basics, and she is always available when questions or abnormalities come up. It was daunting at first, but I felt very comfortable by the end of our first breeding season. I probably did 50 ultrasounds that year.
We got this machine:
http://www.fisherbiomedical.com/equine.htm
Reasonable price, comes with a few learning materials (don’t count just on these though), good performance. My one complaint would be that the probe is small…but my vet also has the same machine that she purchased about a year before us, and she got a great probe with it - so might be something you could ask about.
I am very happy with the purchase. My vet is very busy and does not offer frozen semen breeding, so the machine has made it possible for us to do frozen ourselves. If I added up how much it would have been to breed 7 or 8 mares with frozen at the closest clinic that offers this, it would have been more than the price of the machine in one season.
It is not for everyone, and it does take a bit of time to get comfortable…but it was the right choice for us.
We have an Aloka 500, and I wouldn’t use anything else. I will say, though, that the biggest part of becoming proficient at using an ultrasound isn’t the equipment, but conquering the learning curve. Ideally you would have many, many guided ultrasounds before setting out on your own. If you have a situation like arizonard, then it might be feasible, but if you only have a few mares, I can’t see it being worth the time/effort. However, if you do decide to go that route (and certainly more and more breeders do) then I really encourage you to find an experienced “mentor” who can really teach you what you are looking at, and even more importantly, the proper and safe technique (rectal tears are a very real risk). Also, find someone who will teach you how to palpate AND ultrasound. Sometimes what you are feeling is just as important as what you are seeing!
Believe it or not, I bought my ultrasound from Ebay. I got a laptop model with the linear probe. New, not used. This model:
I hope the link works. This is the company that manufactures the model I bought:
http://www.welld.net/einfo.asp
Overall, I’m extremely happy with it. It has some cool “bells & whistles” on it too. I offered $2,500, and they accepted. There are a few different Chinese Ebay stores offering the same product. I bought mine from “Medeshop”. Customer service was great. It was delivered from China to my doorstep in only a week – very well packaged too. It comes with a well made case and instructions in English (not perfect English, but easily deciphered). The only thing that could be better, in my opinion, is to have a bit more brightness in the screen display.
There are other models too, all new and at very good prices!
I took a class with Jim Kubiak to learn how to use the machine. He’s a fantastic and thorough teacher, and I highly recommend him:
http://www.thebreedersassistant.com/home
Judy
Which is why we’ve decided to leave the ultrasounding up to our vet! :yes:
I would agree there are some very real risks involved. I should mention that both of us are vet students, and I am also a registered vet tech, so we have had a lot of veterinary training before setting out on this venture.
We’ve considered having our own machine here at the farm to do our mares.
I do have a question for some of you who are using machines you’ve purchased - are you just checking your own mares or client’s mares as well? I ask this becuase there are some states where it is considered a medical procedure to do a rectal exam and requires licensing. How do you handle that and also the liability issue?
I think many people don’t understand that there are limits on what procedures can be done on other people’s horses. Many states consider an IV shot to be a medical procedure and you cannot give one to a horse you don’t own if you aren’t licensed.
…and if that horse is insured, insurance will be null and void if something should go wrong and it hasn’t been done by a licensed veterinarian!
Check out the link on our website for Universal Medical Systems. They carry their own line of ultrasounds, but also take in old ultrasounds on trade, so have a large variety of different machines. They will warranty them and as they “build” their own probes, they can replace/repair the probes on most machines. They also give GREAT customer support, so well worth contacting them and seeing what they have.
We currently have two of their machines and have used a variety of different machines. Most are fairly easy to operate and work very similarly. So, there isn’t that much of a difference from machine to machine. One thing that we “have” seen is that the resolution on some of the cheap machines you see on ebay is horrible by comparison.
With regards to learning to do it yourself, it is recommended that you have at least 100 guided ultrasounds/palpations before you will be reasonably competent. Flip side of that coin is that most vets when they come out of vet school, unless they have taken a rotation through equine reproduction, have had their hand in less than 10 mares <sad sigh>. Frustrating. Those vets that have been doing it for years and can palpate blindfolded and in their sleep are a Godsend. But, some of the students that come out of school and set up shop scare the pants off of me. They just don’t have the skill or training necessary!
Most states will allow you to ultrasound and palpate your own animals with no restrictions. Palpating and ultrasounding outside horses will depend on the state, as well as what exactly you are doing. Fine line, but it is a distinct one.
In any event, if you go: http://www.equine-reproduction.com/index.shtml and follow the link for Universal, it will take you to their website. Their prices are competitive and they are truly really, really good to work with!
Hope that helps!
[QUOTE=Equine Reproduction;4582292]
We currently have two of their machines and have used a variety of different machines. Most are fairly easy to operate and work very similarly. So, there isn’t that much of a difference from machine to machine. One thing that we “have” seen is that the resolution on some of the cheap machines you see on ebay is horrible by comparison.[/QUOTE]
The resolution on the one I bought on Ebay is excellent. The image quality is just as good as the two machines that Jim Kubiak teaches on. I brought the one I bought with me to the class and practiced with it, as well as his machines. He thought I got a fantastic deal, and was considering buying one for himself. The “vet” model is exactly the same as the “human” model – only it comes with a rectal linear probe. Here’s the specific specs (the “vet” configuration is toward the bottom):
http://www.welld.net/enpdf/wed-2018.pdf
ise@ssl quote:
…“I think many people don’t understand that there are limits on what procedures can be done on other people’s horses. Many states consider an IV shot to be a medical procedure and you cannot give one to a horse you don’t own if you aren’t licensed…”
I wouldn’t touch someone else’s mare with a 50 foot pole! :lol:
[QUOTE=ise@ssl;4582106]
We’ve considered having our own machine here at the farm to do our mares.
I do have a question for some of you who are using machines you’ve purchased - are you just checking your own mares or client’s mares as well? I ask this becuase there are some states where it is considered a medical procedure to do a rectal exam and requires licensing. How do you handle that and also the liability issue?
I think many people don’t understand that there are limits on what procedures can be done on other people’s horses. Many states consider an IV shot to be a medical procedure and you cannot give one to a horse you don’t own if you aren’t licensed.[/QUOTE]
We absolutely DO NOT do ANY mares other than our own. Way too much risk.
The one you purchased is a laptop type “portable” configuration. The ones that we have dealt with that were Chinese imports were the typical, “stationary”, e.g., large, heavy impossible to lug around ultrasounds :D. I’ll have to see if I can dig up the exact brand names, but they truly were horrible to work with. small image, poor resolution, etc. Unfortunately, they had been purchased on ebay as well and the buyers were not as pleased with their purchase, understandably, as you were. So, just wanted to give a buyer beware warning.
Universal has asked us several times if we will ever do courses on ultrasounding. At some point we may look at holding a course in Oklahoma at our facility there. But, for now, we’ve got enough on our plates and just want to get through 2009 with our sanity intact 
jdeboer01, Glad your’s is working out well for you <smile>.
Kathy St.Martin
Equine-Reproduction.com, LLC
http://www.equine-reproduction.com
Check out our Holiday Enrollment Special!
[QUOTE=ise@ssl;4582106]
We’ve considered having our own machine here at the farm to do our mares.
I do have a question for some of you who are using machines you’ve purchased - are you just checking your own mares or client’s mares as well? I ask this becuase there are some states where it is considered a medical procedure to do a rectal exam and requires licensing. How do you handle that and also the liability issue?
I think many people don’t understand that there are limits on what procedures can be done on other people’s horses. Many states consider an IV shot to be a medical procedure and you cannot give one to a horse you don’t own if you aren’t licensed.[/QUOTE]
I don’t think anyone mentioned doing other people’s mares only their own. It sounds like a great idea!
[QUOTE=ise@ssl;4582106]
I think many people don’t understand that there are limits on what procedures can be done on other people’s horses. Many states consider an IV shot to be a medical procedure and you cannot give one to a horse you don’t own if you aren’t licensed.[/QUOTE]
That’s not entirely true. Most Veterinary Practice Acts have statements of “direct or indirect” veterinary supervision and depending on what the procedure is, one can give medication to another person’s animal if it is under veterinary supervision. For example, we have a staff veterinarian that will dispense medication that needs to be given to animals in our care. The vet prescribes the method of treatment and we follow that treatment.
It is unfortunate as the ranks of large animal veterinarians coming out of university is dropping drastically year after year. So, it is becoming more and more problematic finding good, competent large animal vets as the numbers practicing are dwindling. I would love to see some sort of “nurse practitioner” type of certification implemented in the veterinary field as one sees in the human field - where individuals work in close contact with a veterinarian, but are able to dispense care and treatments.
In large metropolitan areas, there will always be the availability of good competent practitioners, but the more remote people are, the fewer options are available to them. Maybe in my spare time, I’ll start tilting at windmills and see if we can’t get things moving in that direction <smile>.
[QUOTE=Equine Reproduction;4583545]
It is unfortunate as the ranks of large animal veterinarians coming out of university is dropping drastically year after year. So, it is becoming more and more problematic finding good, competent large animal vets as the numbers practicing are dwindling. I would love to see some sort of “nurse practitioner” type of certification implemented in the veterinary field as one sees in the human field - where individuals work in close contact with a veterinarian, but are able to dispense care and treatments.[/QUOTE]
Wow, what a great idea! The other thing that would be great are classes on basic diagnostics and treatments for horse owners. It could save money for owners, and possibly save the lives of horses that can’t wait until the vet shows up…
Why do you suppose there are fewer large animal vets going into the field?
The “small animal” vet practice right down the road from me used to do horses as well. I asked the owner why he doesn’t do horses anymore, and he said “because I want to have a life.”
Wait, did I just answer my own question? 
[QUOTE=jdeboer01;4583611]
Wow, what a great idea! The other thing that would be great are classes on basic diagnostics and treatments for horse owners. It could save money for owners, and possibly save the lives of horses that can’t wait until the vet shows up…
Why do you suppose there are fewer large animal vets going into the field?
The “small animal” vet practice right down the road from me used to do horses as well. I asked the owner why he doesn’t do horses anymore, and he said “because I want to have a life.”
Wait, did I just answer my own question? :)[/QUOTE]
There are fewer large animal vets mostly because of the money. I can tell you, as co-owner of an equine/small animal practice, that small animal work is where you can make a better (not to mention safer) living. Every year the AVMA releases a study on what the average starting salary is for each type of vet (small animal, mixed animal, equine, large, research, etc) and equine is always at the bottom of the pile, by a long shot. Few grads want to go into a field where paying off a $100,000+ in student loans is going to be almost impossible to do. Plus, equine work is much harder on the body; there will come a day when my husband will probably be small animal exclusive b/c of the hard work that equine medicine is.
Bumping that discussion up.
Anymore testimonies about owning an ultrasound machine? Experienced repro vet in my area of Quebec are at 3hrs+ drive, I send my mares to be bred with frozen at a repro facility but for the later preg checks and the “before” monitoring, I am always in a dilemma between using the local vets who are lovely but not very repro-saavy, or the very far ones, that charges me an arm and leg to come up to my farm, IF they have the time… A friend and I are toying with the idea of buying together an ultrasound machine and go get some training with a vet who specializes in equine repro. Is it realistic?
[QUOTE=Spike;6891924]
Bumping that discussion up.
Anymore testimonies about owning an ultrasound machine? Experienced repro vet in my area of Quebec are at 3hrs+ drive, I send my mares to be bred with frozen at a repro facility but for the later preg checks and the “before” monitoring, I am always in a dilemma between using the local vets who are lovely but not very repro-saavy, or the very far ones, that charges me an arm and leg to come up to my farm, IF they have the time… A friend and I are toying with the idea of buying together an ultrasound machine and go get some training with a vet who specializes in equine repro. Is it realistic?[/QUOTE]
The best thing I ever did was go down to Kathy & Jos’s at www.equine-reproduction.com last year and take their one-on-one course. Kathy guided me through many, many ultrasounds. Learning how to work the ultrasound machine is the least of your worries. It all comes down to learning proper and safe techniques, learning what you are feeling and learning what you are seeing on the screen. That will be your biggest learning curve.
We ended up purchasing a reconditioned Sonovet 600 which included a really nice rectal probe, 90 day warranty, service with Universal Imaging and a really great carrying case for the ultrasound. It allows the ultrasound machine to stay in the carrying case at all times and just opens up from the front, has compartments for the cords to run out of the case, and has a sun shade in case you have light reflecting off of the screen. Contact Kathy at www.equine-reproduction.com, as she is the best person to speak to about various machines and their one-on-one courses. For us, it was money well spent! :yes:
I went to Dr. Kubiak’s course several years ago and bought a used ebay Chinese knockoff ultrasound from Buschkn. When I took the course, we used different ultrasounds each day - from the cheap ebay machines to the high end ones so we could get an idea of what we wanted to buy. I get along just fine with the cheap one. I would thoroughly recommend the course. I couldn’t get away long enough to do Dr. Kubiak’s whole week long series, so attended over two separate weeks, and each time it mostly contained warmblood breeders. Doing some of your own repro work is definitely gaining popularity.
Yes, it is realistic. I also took a course and did all of my own breeding last year. If you can ultrasound effectively you should be fine to to do the insemination on your own if that is something that would interest you.
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