Equine Social Skills Fail

My horse has been mostly on stall rest for 6 weeks. He’s typically fairly easy going but now that he’s getting some paddock turn out he’s down right stud like. (He is a gelding, not proud cut, no previous issues, trailered and rode with mares for years, very peaceful in group turn out prior to this.) He is obsessed with the mares and screams for them when they are turned out. Whinnies to anyone. Fights over the fence, rearing and striking, then stands with his butt so the one PITA gelding who can reach him will nuzzle his butt which results in screams and kicks through the fence.
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I have never had to worry this horse will hurt himself or another horse by being aggressive but at this stage I’m pretty concerned. I’ve got some Zylkene. It’s expensive and he requires two packets per dose. He’s also a problem child when it comes to powders. My plan was to hold off until we were closer to group turn out time to save on $ and the risk that he’ll decide its poison right before its actually time for big field turn out but I think it needs to start now. Yay.

Any other ideas that have worked for you? He’s on magnesium for muscle health. On omeprazole. All the hay he could want. Does actually have space to not pick a fight over the fence but is instead creating a stud pile at the fence and letting himself be lured down to the fence after a few moments of demuring the other gelding’s advances.

He has also been on solo turn out for months at a time in the past. It seems to be the stall rest that’s destroyed his ability to not be a raging dork at other horses. It’s like he lost all ability to interact normally and his only way to express himself is now shrieking and punching. Loads of fun. Even the mares he “loves” get this treatment if they walk up while I’m hand grazing him. Never pins his ears once. Just full throttle shriek and strike like a stallion with no social experience.

Depo/MPA?

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How long has he been acting this way/how long has he been turned out in the paddock since stall rest ended? What was he on stall rest for?

Have you spoken to the vet about this? What does your barn owner/manager think?

If the horse has only been turned out in the paddock for a week or two, I’d be tempted to give it some time to simmer down. but I don’t think I would put him in group turnout, even on drugs, if he’s showing this behavior. Somebody’s likely to get kicked and/or run into the fence.

It sounds like you haven’t been able to put him back into work yet. Maybe if the horse got a “job” he’d be happier. My experience with TBs is that they need jobs and routines, unless they’re very laid back. Maybe try doing some in-hand work with him, doing some clicker-training to teach him simple things on the ground; something to focus his mind on being a working horse again.

(I don’t know why I assumed he’s a TB, but I think the comment still holds even if he’s not.)

Good luck.

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Was trying not to write a book. Really just looking for advice on how people transitioned their horses back to turn out…

Stall rest: 6+ weeks now. At 4 weeks he went out for a few days. The first day he went out he put a leg through the fence at another horse and pulled a (thankfully vinyl) board out on himself. Ace fixed that but he came in with a bite on his butt from his PITA friend who hangs over the fence. After 4 days of graduated turn out he worked up to a full day out. Then the leg blew back up and he was in for another 10 days until we could U/S. Original injury: splint fracture/fuzziness on sesamoid/flake off sesamoid. U/S check: clean. Suspect blow up d/t scratches that broke 2 days later but U/S to be sure there wasn’t a major tear, etc.

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Full disclosure, I’m a vet. Vets don’t ease horses into turn out. I came here because managers, trainers, and owners have far more experience with this. Yes I’ve reached out to the vet working with us and vet friends. Hence, the Zylkene.

We’re weeks if not more from group turn out. Current behavioral concern is that he is kicking through/at fences and at the barn. I don’t want to go back to stall rest for a hind limb injury just as the front leg is clearing up.

I agree, however it rained here for 10 solid days. I have a long, uphill walk to the ring. It’s going to be at least until the weekend before I climb into the tack. In the mean time he tried to fight through the electric fence today. Good news: he didn’t put a leg through. Bad news, he didn’t get shocked, which will almost definitely fix that particular behavior, although not the squealing and running.

TB. :wink:

Can you change the hot wire to the 6" extender thingies (technical term) and have them face in to him so he has a damn good reason to not get too close to the fence? It might not help but it surely could not hurt (and it is a cheap/easy thing to try). Unfortunately some horses are assholes, and he probably needed to learn his place in the hierarchy before this, but we don’t always get what we want.

Other things to try :

if he has a stall mate that he can see/smell, it may be worth turning out next to that horse so he can get his idiocy out of the way in the confines of a stall and then just transition the relationship to outside (later you can deal with the herdbound idiot :smiley: )

Is he sharing a fenceline with multiple horses? If so that may be part of the issue, he’s more threatened/aggressive in the face of a team maybe? If that is the case it may be worth trying him next to one horse and give that horse a pile of hay far away so everyone has a corner to retire to initially…

worst case scenario - you can get these 36" step in poles plus hot tape from tractor supply - just add a fenceline about 4’ in from the regular fence and save him from himself (if you do this, get the expensive tape that zaps better, my experience is tape doesn’t always have a strong zap and you want him to REALLY get the message when he challenges it)

Stall rest can certainly affect their personality. And it gives them a lot of energy with nowhere good to direct it.

I didn’t have any luck with Zylkene, but other than the cost, it’s harmless to try. I did also test my horse’s T levels when he was rehabbing, just in case. Yep, no excuses!

If there’s no place to put him outside where he isn’t sharing a fence line, then I would make that fence line HOT. And preferably, run hot wire inside the fence on your horse’s side by a few inches, possibly a top line and one about his shoulder height, depending on how tall the fence is. And did I mention HOT?

I agree with DMK that the tape type is a bit safer if you’ve got to rig it up in a temporary fashion, but it can be harder to get it hot enough vs. naked wire or the corded kind.

I typed up a long response and deleted it. I suspect the only answer is the hard one: time, patience, and luck but I’m worn out and looking for any helpful tips to get through this next anxiety inducing stage of rehab. The way I’ve worded my question hasn’t been helpful and my tired brain is frustrated and annoyed so I’ll go the route of patience and report back on the Zylkene, if anyone is interested. Thanks for trying to help.

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I would have liked to have given my mare another month of paddock, but when she threatened to start hurting staff or herself, and behaving like a damn fool stallion (for real, she is weird) it was time to bit the bullet and say, ok to field turnout back with her group, continue healing or cripple yourself worse. I had my heart in my throat the first few minutes, but she seems not to have re-injured and calmed way the hell back down to her normal lamby self on the first day. Yes, on the first day.

I did not use any pharmaceutical behaviour moderators at all - she can break through full sedation if she’s wound enough - so I am no help to you there.

Perhaps the only helpful bit of advice I can give is that when you do do group re-integration, don’t suddenly go onto morning/full day turnout. Wait until afternoon when everyone has their jollies out already and no-one is likely to start running for feeling early morning fresh.

If you are looking for a supplement or pharmaceutical suggestion, perhaps Depo?

I did use ConfidenceEQ (pheromones) during rehab of mine to help mine with things like standing for the farrier. But I don’t think it would help the behavior you describe.

Perfect Prep? I haven’t used this, and I know it’s marketed for show horses, but if it works, why not use it on a rehabbing horse too.

“Natural” stuff like valerian? I think it’s in Calm-and-Cool?

Long term tranq?

Mini or goat for company?

Long handwalks?

Toys in paddock?

In-and-out type stall or pipe corral instead of separate stall (with walls) and paddock?

Kicking chains?

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Aacck why I hate shared fence lines and have at least a 10 ft lane between pastures. I would definitely put up HOT wire to get him to back off from the fence line. I use just a single strand of hot tape set chest high, works great for big TB/Perch mare.

Get him a small pony, donkey or mule as a buddy?

Did his bad behavior worsen after he went on the Zylkene? It might be having a negative effect when combined with the magnesium.

also, is he getting any grain and or alfalfa? Those can make a nut job out of a horse that’s confined for a long time.

best wishes in turning him around ---- maybe you should just find someone with 20 acres, an alpha mare that’s not in season and let him run the beans out of himself:)

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My horse got a new neighbor and they HATE each other. They were tearing down the fence (hot wire) nearly daily and both now have (minor) scars. What we had to do was put up a step-in temporary fence about 4 feet off the fence line so that they cannot touch each other. Oh and make that sucker (the temp fence) really hot. Lucikly her pen is big enough to be able to do that. NO issues whatsoever since we added the little fence. All her boo-boos are nearly healed.

I hope you can sort things out. It is frustrating…even more so when you board.

Susan

You would know better than I, but would a calming supplement work? Even short term until he is back to normal self?

I have never used one so I have no experience, but it was just the first thing that popped in to my mind after all the fencing suggestions.

I laughed out loud at the bolded statement. Where are you from?

I know many equine vets and have many vet friends. Not a single one would just throw their horse in a paddock coming off 6 weeks of stall rest. Every single one would ease their horse back in to turnout.

I was wondering if OP is not an equine vet. Some vets specialize in rehab, so they would have a protocol to get horse back into shape, including when to add turn out, as well as have advice on managing unruly behavior (they’re not usually against some chemical help). Some vets also advise not to turn out, or only under supervision, until horse is going under saddle again to minimize chance of re-injury.

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One of mine is horrible on box rest, like so horrible.
He has been on it twice in the last 12mo, and both times got completely out of hand (may have been a combinations of meds?) he is fine stabled however.
He carries that crap attitude to the paddock after stall rest too, and is quite dangerous.
I will drug him to the eyeballs with sedative if it happens again, its not worth the risk. Some just dont do well.
It took him at least 2 months to return to a nice horse after his last 10 days in hospital.

:confused: I am a vet. I treated horses in clinical practice for years before changing jobs to one with hours that didn’t make me want to die. Of course I am easing my horse into turn out, otherwise that would be the obvious answer. He went from a couple hours in a paddock, to a full day in a paddock, to a couple hours in a larger paddock, to a full day in a larger paddock, and now into a field. He was drugged and adjusted throughout to make it as safe as possible. Every step was *ell. What I am saying is that I was hoping you, the educated horse people of the internet, would know some tricks I don’t because I don’t turn out horses, I diagnose and treat them. I am asking the barn managers, trainers, and working students who have waited beside more gates, watching more horses adjust to turn out, than I have. Frankly every horse I’ve ever pulled off stall rest into turn out had some fun, kicked up their heels, scared everyone to death, then settled in. Most of those owners just threw their horse out in a field and didn’t put in an ounce of work adjusting their horses - AMA - and had zero issues. In the mean time, there is my horse, who is doing what all vet owned animals do and giving his vet owner nightmares. He will never go on stall rest again. It will either be recovery in a field or euthanasia. I always said stall rest would fry his brain. Being right is a hollow victory but at least I know now.

Things that have not worked:
Sedation
Calming supplements
Zylkene
Depo
Going back to work
Turn out (8 hours currently)

He remains dangerously reactive to the existence of loose horses. It’s great fun. On to more interesting drugs.

This was my situation. My horse (fit, high energy TB) was on stall rest for 6 months. We hand walked for five of them and started him under saddle slowly in the sixth month. When he was able to sustain very light trot work (had phased up to trotting through corners) he was allowed to go outside. We made a super restricted paddock (about 20ft by 20ft) and hotwired the F. out of one side of it where some antagonistic neighbors were to keep all horses away from that boundary - the other neighbor was his old friend (who was super steady) and let that be. He was always the last one out in the AM (other horses were turned out & fed outside so by the time he went out everything was super quiet/zen) and for several weeks he came in by mid morning or lunch.

It was a very slow process, but largely successful. If your horse is food motivated, consider finding one of those balls that you can shove hay cubes in and they roll & dispense cubes from as they go. That was a good distraction for my guy.