Equipride Users...........Please Read

[chipper2128]

I have a 9 yo TWH gelding that I have had for a little over a year now. He appears to be in good health and is current on vaccines, dewormers, teeth, sheath, and farrier. He eats a first cutting grass hay three times a day and gets a bowl of soaked beet pulp in the evening with Equipride before evening hay. He lives with another TWH gelding in a two stall barn with access to an approximately 1 1/2 acre dry lot.

He has had this same diet and living arrangement for over a year. He has consistently had bouts of soft stool ranging from cow pie to “sort of soft”. I think some of it is emotional as I can see him poop a soft one if he thinks he going somewhere in the trailer, or he is getting the halter on to do some work or similar situations like that. With that said, I am also concerned that perhaps the Equipride is contributing to the soft poop. Recently, he has had periods of liquid farts that usually don’t last more than an hour or two, but can last up to a day or so. I talked to my vet today and he wants me to stop the Equipride completely and see what happens.

The horses behavior is normal and I haven’t noticed any other changes in behavior or other significant issues. It is hot as blazes here now and has been for several weeks, so he isn’t getting much work and spends a lot of time in the stall under the fan. He is out at night in the dry lot area with his roommate.

I have read most of the other posts on soft/runny poops and can certainly relate to the circumstances that others are experiencing too. But, I you are an Equipride user or have been, I’d appreciate any input you have especially related to these circumstances, and if you switched to some other supplement, like Platinum Performance , I’d be interested in what you are now using and why.

Thanks Much

[Texarkana]

I did not have any issues with soft or loose manure when I used Equipride.

I did feel like my horses weren’t getting quite “enough” of everything, especially quality protein/amino acids, while on Equipride. Coats looked good, but seemed to have more bleaching. Toplines looked a little worse for wear. I also found the quality control a bit suspect for the price.

I switched back to a ration balancer after about a year, then was using High Point Grass/Mixed supplement + Nutramino. Both of which seem to work better for my horses.

[JB]

I’ve used EP as well, 3 horses, without any of those issues. But like Tex, it just wasn’t enough for the easy keepers who were also muzzled and getting nothing significant beyond their forage. It’s a nice “ration balancer” without the protein, so often more suitable for horses getting enough alfalfa, or grass hay that’s higher in protein.

Why do you/the vet feel it’s the EP? Why not the beet pulp, or the need to add something to his diet even if short-term? Just curious why the EP is being singled out.

Of course the obvious solution is to remove it as the vet suggested and see what happens.

I have a friend who has a horse similar to yours. There are only 2 things she has found to work out of dozens, literally, other options. That has been adding Cavalor Mash (I think that’s not quite right but close enough), and switching to Ultium (while dropping the Mash). She truly tried everything else - no soy, alfalfa, adding rice bran, various probiotics, various ulcer remedies for both fore- and hindgut, just hay, you name it. Those 2 things, separately, are the only things that keep his manure well-formed.

[chipper2128]

Texarkana and JB, thanks for your inputs. I too have used EP with several other horses with no side effects that I could see. And I am using it on his roommate and he is doing fine.

JB: The Cavalor mix looks interesting, but I don’t think it is available in Western Colorado. I can’t make the Cavalor website “dealer locator” work, so I am not sure, but I did check with several of the feed stores in the area. The Purina Ultium should be easier to find. My concern with Ultium is that our horses are not in a high workload environment. We do trail riding exclusively a time or two a week and the trails are not that demanding. Do you think Ultium is too much “energy” food for that requirement?

BTW: He still has gas this morning but the liquid part is gone and all the manure from last night looked pretty good. I’ll keep things consistent for a week or so and see what happens.

JB: My Vet is a bit “anti supplements” and I think that is why he leans towards cutting them out if there is any question about their need. I would like to have them on some kind of supplement/ration balancer just to make sure they are not missing out on some essential vitamin, mineral, etc that they need.

[JB]

@chipper2128

JB: The Cavalor mix looks interesting, but I don’t think it is available in Western Colorado. I can’t make the Cavalor website “dealer locator” work, so I am not sure, but I did check with several of the feed stores in the area.

You could call Cavalor and see if they can look up dealers in your area. Even then, not all stores which carry products get listed on the website, as some are secondary “dealers” who buy it from the official dealers.

The Purina Ultium should be easier to find. My concern with Ultium is that our horses are not in a high workload environment. We do trail riding exclusively a time or two a week and the trails are not that demanding. Do you think Ultium is too much “energy” food for that requirement?

It really depends on their calorie requirements. The lower feeding rate of Ultium may be too many calories.

JB: My Vet is a bit “anti supplements” and I think that is why he leans towards cutting them out if there is any question about their need. I would like to have them on some kind of supplement/ration balancer just to make sure they are not missing out on some essential vitamin, mineral, etc that they need.

I think everyone needs to be “as little as possible, but as much as necessary” I do agree that if it’s debatable whether something is doing good, dropping it isn’t necessarily a bad idea. BUT, otoh, there are certain deficiencies that could take several years to finally make their presence known. I do think most forages are ok for most horses to maintain an acceptable level of health - nothing truly obvious going on. But I also know that many forages are not high enough quality for many horses to be at more optimal levels of health, which is why I think supplements of this nature - or v/m supps, or ration balancers, are totally appropriate, even if we don’t really see their effects.

[buck22]

My herd is on EP and I’ve found slightly the opposite, my geriatric who is prone to cow patties will tend to have improved manure while on EP.

However, my geriatric apparently has a very sensitive digestion system and is easily irritated by sand. The dryer his paddock gets, the worse it is. Right now paddocks are bone dry.

Additionally, a few years ago, I eliminated beet pulp because of all of the sand and grit I would discover after soaking it. He is currently eating TC Senior as the mainstay of his diet as he can’t chew hay well any longer. I realize beet pulp is a primary component of TCS, and with his diarrhea issues becoming harder and harder to resolve as he ages, I may have to investigate TCS further to see if there is any grit from the beet pulp occurring there as well.

If you have any sand in your soil I would strongly suggest contemplating the possibility of sand irritation in the gut.

Years ago, I had a QH pony who was young, 9 yrs or so, and he had terrible issues with hypersensitivity to sand as well. Explosive stinky diarrhea. He moved to a location that had clay based soil instead of sand, and never had an issue again afaik.

[chipper2128]

buck22: Thanks for your input. It’s interesting that you mentioned the BP. I have just been noticing that the BP bowls seem to have something gritty in them when I wash them out after the horses have eaten the BP. I have been feeding BP for years and have not noticed this before. I do feed a week of Sand Clear each month even though the horses do not graze or eat off sandy soil. They eat off a stall mat which I keep fairly clean.

JB: I will call Cavalor and see what they have out this way. Also, I have a couple other places I can check. I have been investigating ration balancers and there are several brands available here. That sounds like a reasonable path to pursue .Thanks for your thoughts.

[ChocoMare]

Another long-term EquiPride feeder here. My draft-cross mares look best on E’pride, with never a loose poop issue. I do add more Vitamin E, since both are on hay all year round, plus loose minerals for my area.

[Hermein]

The cow patty effect could very well be a sand impaction in the hind gut. Our vet prescribed 100% psyllium, one cup twice a day. It didn’t take long to “fix” the condition, a couple of weeks, iirc. We used psyllium from UltraCruz.

[chipper2128]

ChocoMare: Thanks for the input. I talked with my EP distributor and he said that none of his clients have had a horse react to EP negatively.

Hermein: I feed Sand Clear once a day for a week every month and have watched to see if it made any difference, but didn’t notice anything. I haven’t tried the double dose

[buck22]

Chipper, try doing a sand test with your boy’s manure. Take a large volume of fresh manure, put it into a large clear plastic bag that you can seal on top, either by zip or tying, etc., and fill the bag with water. Agitate the bag vigorously until all of the manure has broken down and becomes soup, then let it settle for about 15 minutes and see how much sand accumulates at the bottom. I’m not a vet, but if I see more than a 1/4 teaspoon’s worth, I’m quite concerned.

Routinely doing sand clear isn’t enough sometimes for some animals. Some are much more sensitive than others.

You mention he’s dry lotted, while he may eat his hay ration off of a cleanly swept mat, he may be spending time pulling at green shoots and ingesting more sand than you think.

[PeteyPie]

When I got one of my mares she had runny/soft manure. I waited it out for a couple of weeks thinking it was just nerves from being at a new place, especially since she is a nervous type. Then I tried tweaking her diet with different ratios of feeds and different feeds. That didn’t work. Since she had come from back East, I tried worming her with Praziquantel for tape worms (they are uncommon here since many horses are kept on dry lots). That fixed the problem. So if you haven’t used a wormer which contains Praziquantel, you might try that if the other suggestions don’t work or in addition to checking for sand.

[chipper2128]

buck22: Thanks for the technique to do the sand test. I will do that today. He does “graze” some of the weeds that come up along the fence line. Can sand in the gut cause intermittent soft/runny poop…because some days are much improved over others?

Petey Pie: He has gotten Quest Plus both Springs since I have had him and an Equimax last December. So I hope that took care of Tapes. Also, his fecals have always come back at zero eggs. Thanks for your input.

[chipper2128]

buck22: I think I may have used too much manure in the test. I’m waiting for it to settle now. If I use a large Ziploc bag (about 12 inches on a side), how much manure should I put in…several cup fulls?

[buck22]

Chipper, the lower portion of the corner of the bag does appear to be sand, but it’s impossible for me to tell from a computer screen. Examine it closely through the bag, even grind it back and forth in your thumb and forefinger to see if you feel the grit.

If what I think is the portion of sand is indeed sand, I would be concerned - but I am not a vet. You may want to consider calling your vet to get advice.

Yes, intermittent soft/runny manure is a classic sign of sand in the gut.

[buck22]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6cxkrUug6HA

Same video? You can see at the end the amount of sand that is found in the bag, and how the person in the video mentions its quite a bit. A small amount is normal, but what is shown in the video is problematic.

Regular SandClear isn’t always enough for all equines - some need more support - especially a dry lotted horse, as they tend to nibble any green shoots as soon as they come up, and run the risk of ingesting more sand than a pastured horse.

[chipper2128]

Just took this to my Vet and there is no sand in this. The real test is feeling the separated material in the lower corner…not gritty at all.

[chipper2128]

buck22: Yes, that’s the same video I was referring to.Your posts didn’t show up until I made my last post (Not sure why that was?). My Vet said the same thing about checking for the “grittiness” of the settled material. It doesn’t appear he has sand in this sample, but I will test him and his stablemate again soon. Thanks for your help.

[SonnysMom]

Cavalor is pretty expensive. Be careful when comparing pricing as the bags are not standard weights even within the Cavalor range. Some bags are 15 kg and some are 20 kg depending on which type. I used it for one spring and summer with 3 different mixes and wasn’t really impressed. On one of their mixes my guy got pretty high on it.
My horse massage therapist had a few client’s that used it for awhile for their endurance horses but they eventually moved away from it.
It didn’t help that I wanted the Fiberforce since I suspected my horse had a history of ulcers that I treated for but wanted to keep from coming back. The dealer was frequently out of Fiberforce so I switched to Strucomix for awhile. The dealer was not close to home and had inconvenient hours so they were difficult to get the feed.

[chipper2128]

Here’s an update: I slowly weaned this guy off all his supplements and beet pulp. He was just eating a good first cutting hay, clean water and a white salt block. I kept him on this diet for about 3 weeks and absolutely nothing changed. He still had soft manure to diarrhea during the morning that usually cleared up by noon or so and was OK until the next morning. You could almost set your watch by it.

So, on the advice of several other horse owners, I took him to another Vet to get a second opinion. This Vet also did a sand test, a fecal blood test and sent off a fecal panel. The results of the sand test did show a very small amount. The fecal blood test was negative and the fecal panel came back today and was also negative for 4 or 5 conditions it check for. I don’t remember all the details of the fecal panel results since the results were given to me by phone and I don’t have the written report yet.

So, he is on a double dose of Sand Clear a day for two weeks (just finished week one), he was given a probiotic for the last six days, and also had about a week of Bio Sponge. There has not been a dramatic change yet, but I am starting to see some improvement.

The new Vet thinks, and I concur, that this horse is stressed from the introduction of a new horse to his environment and it is going to take him a while to settle in. The new horse has been here since the end of May, so it has only been three months. The vet also recommended a calming supplement might help take the edge off and help de-stress the situation. Any recommendations on supplements would be appreciated. I did read several posts in the archives on calming supplements and seems in most cases some work and some don’t. Just seems to depend on what is causing the negative behavior.