aaaaaaand, they make a whole lot of mistakes, so they are not very credible on that front.
I’m still in the PSSM group, but really only to check out what diets people are finding helps their symptomatic THEN tested horses. I engaged a few threads a while ago, and Paul’s condescension and patronizing replies which spew out loads of very scientific “stuff” prove to me he has no desire to actually educate anyone, he just wants belief based on “sounds good so must be true” word vomits. He loves to make personal attacks on anyone who questions the validity of his “research”, and has no problem stooping to claiming how uneducated and ridiculous Valberg and her research is.
Except he’s been promising “shortly” the research for many years now, there’s no reason to think this time will be any different.
I have a horse that suffers from a muscle myopathy. No real findings from a muscle biopsy so I’m still in the dark as to variant. I cannot bring myself to spend the money on an Equiseq test for two reasons:
1: No peer review
2: The head of the company has unlimited hours to promote his product on Facebook to the tune of $300 per test but not enough time or money to get the peer review.
Yes. His latest business pitch for 1 millioncups which I posted a link up farther. He talks about peer review and how he is getting everything he needs to get it bc this is what is holding back equiseq from growing but he says peer reviewed isn’t they big of a deal and people who say who equiseq needs peer reviewed doesn’t understand what peer reviewed actual is. I also know he has says in past he has everything he needs for peer reviewed.
It is SO refreshing to read this thread! I started to think I was crazy reading the rabid support of this testing on the PSSM Facebook page. I’m a researcher (non-equine) in my professional life, and while of course the peer review process isn’t perfect, I was shocked at how casually people trashed the value of rigorous studies to better understand genetic components of the variants and how to identify and respond to them.
I fell into the PSSM1 world entirely by accident earlier this summer. A Morgan breeder from my region announced publicly that one of their stallions had tested positive. Soon, other people shared that at least a large handful of other horses who shared that stallion’s sire also tested positive for PSSM1. That (prolific) sire is my mare’s grandsire, so in the name of science, I figured the UC Davis hair test was easy enough and I’d get her tested. I was pretty shocked when the results came back n/P1. I’ve had her since 2018, and to the best of my knowledge, she’s always been asymptomatic. Save one long training ride last summer when she kept parking out as though she was going to pee but wouldn’t. It was so odd I actually got off and handwalked her 4 miles home since she seemed so uncomfortable. But other than that incident, I can’t think of any other scenarios or symptoms that match, so I am cautiously optimistic that she is in the asymptomatic group. She’s 15 years old now.
At the same time, a few other friends and client’s of my vet’s whose horses also have this sire two or three gens back in their pedigree tested positive too. So after extensive discussion with the vet, we decided to do a post-exercise blood test to check for elevated muscle enzymes. That also came back “normal” for my mare.
I love this perspective^^, and that’s how I’ve approached managing my mare. For now, I haven’t really changed much of anything. As a Morgan, she is already far too easy a keeper, so her diet is already “metabolic safe” with limited pasture; moving her towards a higher fat diet didn’t make sense. She lives outside 24/7 and does move around a fair bit on her own, and is ridden ~20-25 miles a week April-January (winters off, it’s Vermont). I wonder, and have pondered with other Morgan people, if managing a Morgan as a metabolic disaster waiting to happen might mean that a lot of n/P1 Morgans out there are asymptomatic because of their lifestyle, and thus aren’t tested. Pure speculation, I have zero research to back that up…AMHA just did a small retrospective study with DNA on file with UC Davis, and found a very, very low incidence in the breed. So maybe we just are the genetically unlucky cluster in this area because of how prolific this particular stallion was…
I did decide to supplement with Vit E but honestly can’t say there are any visible changes to her after months of supplementation. And as the weather has turned cooler, I’ve started putting her in a turnout sheet overnight when the weather is going to be below 40*F, and she is fine with that- in prior years, I wouldn’t have started blanketing until it was much colder and/or wet. It makes me feel better, whether it makes a difference to her muscles
Anyway, sorry for the long-winded response, but I did really appreciate the thoughtfulness here!
A diet suitable for any type 2 variant shouldn’t at a be creating health issues. BUT, too many people don’t understand what they’re doing in the first place, and that’s the problem. I’d be curious what the diet was, if you know. I mean, typically, the PSSM2 horses generally get more protein, higher/different quality protein, low to moderate NSC, a few potential supplements aimed at muscle health, which isn’t something that should cause problems.
Based on “long training ride” and “walked 4 miles home”, I’m assuming you do some sort of LD work with her? That on its own could be one reason she’s asymptomatic BUT, she may also be one of those n/P1 horses who just don’t exhibit symptoms, or they’re so mild you never really notice them
Not sure how many days after, but it can take a few days for muscle enzyme numbers to rise following any kind of tying up episode (however mild)
In reading your post farther, you are indeed doing some LD work AND are already managing her more as if she’s IR, than not, and I’m sure that’s helping the issue as well.
It wasn’t necessarily that added protein and such was bad for them, it was more that they basically stopped feeding branded feed and went on a quest to find the “perfect” blend of all micro and macro nutrients. There was no official ration balancer fed since that could have things in it that they didnt want their horses to eat. They would also remove vitamins/minerals entirely because of 1 FB post on the PSSM Forum stating it might be bad for horses of certain variants. When my horse was subjected to the diet, he yo-yoed in weight and energy. Most of their horses were in poor health but it was ignored since they thought they were the end all be all of PSSM nutrition despite having no experience with equine nutrition. It was even frowned upon in that barn to feed a name brand balancer because the brand either didnt have enough of what a PSSM horse needed or it had too many fillers that could be “harmful”.
What I can remember my horse being fed at least was Soy Bean Hulls, Coolstance Copra, SpeediBeet (as the base), then DMG, Vitamin E, Chromium, Selenium, and oil. And with that said, the quantities of each would change depending on the “new research” done via Facebook. Magnesium was COMPLETELY removed from the horse’s diets because it could make them “loopy”. Just a lot of adding, removing, supplementing based off of one off research done on Facebook. And this doesnt even include the hay being fed which changed almost month to month at one point in time. Last I heard they were only feeding straw to their PSSM horses.
I can say, Facebook group can get in your head very easily. Lots of people throwing around products and this works for mine but then doesn’t for someone else and what not. I have taken my horse off of and commercial bagged feed tho. Actually he has never got commercial bagged feed with me. He has been on Vermont blend since I got him a year ago a few days ago. Along with other things added but I choose this route over triple crown30 balancer. But I may try the balancer. Idk. I’m almost out of Vermont blend so I’ll need to order more soon.
Not to derail the Equiseq convo but I found Triple Crown 30 to be not the best for my gelding. He hated it and it really didnt do much for him. Tribute Essential K GC Plus has been amazing for him though.
I used EquiSeq last winter when my horse was in trouble. She tested negative for all tested variants. They were quick. They were polite. They were professional. I left the Facebook page for PSSM1PSSM2 after the tests came back negative so I’ve missed any controversy in the last several months. I thought the Facebook page folk were lovely too. No problems. Very helpful.
The University of Minnesota is also researching DNA. They were running a research group that one could join under certain conditions. I checked that out too but we didn’t meet the criteria.
I looked at different recommended diets and more potent supplements than the mild ones she is already taking. I ended up staying with the milder supplements. I tried a lot of other tests too for tick borne diseases, EPM, etc.
I tried a lot of acclaimed and controversial vet recommended treatments such as physio, acupuncture, PEMF, before choosing controversial surgery with an acclaimed surgeon. I even reached out to a vet that works with Dr DeClue but couldn’t get through the receptionist to the right vet.
The surgeon was right. The surgery was a godsend. My horse is doing great now. I did have to get help for the riding portion of rehab. She was good. By then, I was an emotional basket case. I’m not sure why. Maybe just accepting she was ok, at least for now, and I actually chose the right path for her out of many paths, at least for now, after years of wondering and managing weirdness and what I thought was pain with saddle fit and hoof angles.
Once you get well into the mystery ailments where the well respected veterinarians do not agree, it’s very difficult to know where to turn to help your horse. You are the person who knows your horse the best. They have more knowledge but you can read your horse. It’s mining that knowledge, sifting through conflicting advice, finding what is practically available, and preparing for the worst case scenario while rolling the dice for a horse’s quality of life. It’s difficult and exhausting.
I’m very glad I looked at alternatives first, both ruling out conditions and testing treatments.
Good luck with your choices. No doubt you will find what’s best for your horse.
If u trust the equiseq and Paul, he will tell i if your horse is having issues and test negative for variants he has, he will tell you there is more being discovered and your horse could have one of one of them.
I was given a lovely horse due to his behavioural issues, I couldn’t get muscle on him despite lots and lots of hillwork, poles, classical in hand and ridden schooling.
Then his action got really weird and he looked almost neurological.
During the second bout of veterinary investigations for lameness he full on tied up in the the presence of the vet after exercise. Bloods were taken and confirmed high CK & AST levels.
Digging into his past I discovered he’d been diagnosed as tying up in a previous home (never disclosed by the seller)
I tested for all known variants of PSSM with Equiseq and every result was negative!
