Equiseq

[Loeschered]

I looked on older threads on this company but I wanted to get recent opinions on it.

I have a young horse who is Pssm1. He is on a Pssm1 diet and all that good stuff. I tested for equiseq pssm2 variants a few weeks ago because I wanted to know if he had them and I could be proactive, which now I regret doing honestly bc it’s kinda driving me crazy! I also did not expect him to come back for any either but he did so adds to my regret of testing. Anyways there is still back and forth on this company even after 6-7 years.

Because I was conflicted with company and now learning about the creator of equiseq background recently, I got ahold of Vallberg about this. I was told to forget about the pssm2 and focus only on Pssm1. That is still no scientific studies to back up equiseqs findings and she doesn’t understand why this is still going on.

I’m just here to hope to talk with people who are knowledge on this. Either for or against it.

[bugsynskeeter1]

They claim research will be published soon. But that claim has been going on for as long as I can remember. Paul has his rabid followers, but I’ll wait until the evidence is in.

[equinelaundry]

Two of my horses participated in the Standardbred study. I don’t know anything about gossip regarding the company.

[Loeschered]

Yes I hear that a-lot On pssm forum on Facebook

[Tucker5]

A minor diversion here but did you notice a difference in your horse after changing his diet? I’m curious since I’ve heard the diets for PSSM 1 vs. 2 are different. Seems being positive for both might be hard to solve.

[Loeschered]

Well I dont have any issues with him. He has been fed and cared for since I got him almost a year ago as pssm1 horse And I never fed him or focused on pssm2 obviously bc I never new he “had” it till 2 weeks ago when I just wild hair decided to test to
See . But now I feel like I am driving myself crazy bc I tested and almost manifesting issues.

[ala359]

I get it, there will be controversy until it is officially proven (or disproven further…). I personally believe it’s valuable info and will eventually be proven helpful as it has been for many including myself.

I look at it like the gene for breast cancer. Just because you HAVE the gene mutation doesn’t mean you necessarily have the disease, but you may get it🤷🏻‍♀️

IF you have a horse that is clearly symptomatic, the “variant” from them has helped a lot of people dial in their diet.

But, for now you have to take it with a grain of salt. I have also heard of many false negatives with muscle biopsies due to improper handling, samples taken from the improper location or at a time when the horse is not actively having deterioration in that muscle.

So, I looked at it as just another possible piece of the puzzle…or a non invasive way to possibly gain a bit more info—and with this disease I’ll take whatever I can get!!

[4horses]

I entered my mare in the muscle disease study.

Participation in Muscle Disease in Horses Study

I have no faith in Equisec. If a university cannot confirm that their research is valid and they refuse to publish their research for the world to view, then I doubt it is valid.

My mare is a pasture pet and I don’t think anything is going to change that treatment wise. I kept hoping I could get her back in work but she goes down on trail rides. Even short ones. 30 minutes of exercise is about all she is capable of. It’s another terrible disease and I am heartbroken. My previous horse had DSLD and now this. She definitely does better in the winter with cooler temperatures. I’m in Florida.

[JB]

@ala359

I look at it like the gene for breast cancer. Just because you HAVE the gene mutation doesn’t mean you necessarily have the disease, but you may get it🤷🏻‍♀️

IF you have a horse that is clearly symptomatic, the “variant” from them has helped a lot of people dial in their diet.

This, exactly.

There is absolutely zero credibilty or any valid published research to support their claim that a horse HAS the disease just because he tests positive for 1+ variants.

However, there is some reasonable credibility via real world “case studies” that symptomatic horses have improved a little or a lot by tailoring diets to 1 or more of the variants they do test positive for.

Combined, it all likely means that PSSM2 variants are not caused by single genes, therefore you cannot say that a n/p8 horse HAS the disease.

I don’t really doubt the validity of the test that looks for each variant. But it’s very obvious they have zero grounds on which to base their emphatic statements that a positive result equates to having the disease.

I dislike the company enough that I would never use them, they are scaring the crap out of people and causing too many stallions to be gelded, including excellent stallions in rarer breeds.

I would simply try some of the more common diet changes/supplement additions that others have found useful and go from there.

[JB]

@Tucker5

I’ve heard the diets for PSSM 1 vs. 2 are different. Seems being positive for both might be hard to solve.

Not necessarily hard to solve. You can feed the lower NSC higher fat diet for PSSM1, and feed higher amount/quality protein (like adding whey protein) and/or the supplements like ALCAR for the PSSM2 side of things.

[beowulf]

I echo everything JB said and want to add: if you really want to see what this company is like, join the PSSM group on FB. Paul, the spokesperson for Equiseq, posts often enough that you can arrive at your own conclusion quickly about whether you want to support this company.

I’d sooner put that money towards (permanent) management changes personally.

[rhershock]

This. Just because you have the gene doesn’t mean you will get disease expression. My horse totally fell apart in 2020 and I was at my wits end trying to figure out what was going on. Abscess, severe muscle loss, lethargy, random bouts of colic, inability to move after intense play time in turnout, etc. I did bloodwork and found he had elevated muscle enzymes related to PSSM. Did the type 1 test and he was negative which I think was to be expected as he’s a Standardbred. I did the type two test via Equiseq since I trust the science behind it even if I dont like the company and he did come back with 1 variant (n/P2).

I knew this was his issue considering all of the outward signs of his disease. My ex-trainer tested all of her horses who were not showing signs of the disease and found most of them to have some variant or another. She then went down a rabbit hole of drastically changing all of their diets which lead to creating more health issues for her horses.

While my horse is much better on a PSSM diet (Tribute Essential K GC Plus) along with extra vitamin e and electrolytes, I do believe throwing PSSM related supplements and diet changes at a horse not really exhibiting the symptoms is not the right approach. If he’s not symptomatic, I would keep any eye on him but continue business as usual. After seeing my ex-trainer’s horses all slip into poorer and poorer health from her diet “fixes” I would never recommend someone do that unless they had a reason.

[Loeschered]

I’m in that group but no I’m not going to Paul. Of course he is going say it’s awesome and accurate etc etc. reason why I came here.

[Loeschered]

Alcar was mentioned and found to help pssm1 not pssm2. So it’s for pssm1 it’s just coincidence if it also helps pssm2

[vxf111]

This exactly. Also their customer service was not thrilling especially given how expensive the testing is.

[vxf111]

But there’s peer reviewed testing to link that gene to an increased risk of breast cancer. That link is established. There’s no peer reviewed testing to suggest the genes Equisec is testing for have anything whatsoever to do with PSSM2. That’s the difference. The test is non invasive so no harm in doing it, but there’s no real science to suggest the results mean anything. And it’s been plenty long such that the evidence could have been peer reviewed. The only real explanation for why it hasn’t is that Equisec doesn’t want peer review. At best it’s anecdotal evidence but skewed by the company’s self promotion. Unless someone can link those genres in some scientific way to anything having to do with PSSM2, even just increased risk, it means nothing.

[beowulf]

Equiseq has been around since at least 2015. Since 2015 they cant put forward one peer reviewed/valid published study linking testing positive for variants means the horse has or is suffering from the disease.

Other genetic testing companies, like Etalon, have been around for a similar timeframe and have produced several peer reviewed and/or valid published research on their testing…

I stopped visiting the PSSM page. What started as a good thing turned into a cult, and I was run off by Paul and others (including personal attacks on my person and DMs) when I questioned Paul’s support that PSSM in TBs came from Northern Dancer.

[Loeschered]

Paul has a recent video out in august.

1 Million Cups Albuquerque 3 August 2022 Featuring EquiSeq

This was back in august. Hs said in September he is going to a horse and getting skin or muscle scraping something as such, and If everything checks out he has everything he needs to published and should be a go.

In this video it also explains how he used Facebook pssm group to come up or link the symptoms he took from the group and matched it with or found it associated in human muscle disease or something like that. Where I’m hung up is I do not believe we are anywhere same as horses. We do not have same dna genes etc. it’s a good video. Should watch it.

[Loeschered]

Watch this.

1 Million Cups Albuquerque 3 August 2022 Featuring EquiSeq

[vxf111]

FB is a bit cult-like when it comes to Equisec. Look you won’t hurt anything doing the testing. It’s just kind of a waste of money and I wouldn’t put much, if any, stock in it.

My father does genetic testing and has several patents on human tests. His take was that this testing is pretty worthless at this point. Perhaps at some point there will be science to back it but there’s none now and it does seem suspiciously long for there to be NO public access to the data or peer review. It’s no more scientific than Tad Coffin’s magic saddle that cures colic or any other horse snake oil pseudoscience.