Equitation people - stay up or go to the default

Hi there,

As IEA Zones are coming up, we are gearing up for them by having our students work on testing and knowledge and the “what if” scenarious that they may face at a championship show of this type. Questions for you …

  1. If asked to show a light seat (half seat or 2 point) at a gait and then called to perfrom another gait, should the rider stay up in a light seat or go to the default position for that gait? For example, riders are asked to show a light seat at the trot. The announcer then says to walk. Do they stay up in light seat or come back to regular full seat as is normal for the walk if not otherwise specified?

  2. In a turn on the forehand, once completed, should the rider a. halt and stay halted? b. walk forward a few steps and then halt? c. walk forward and continue at the walk?

It seems these things always cause strong debates! I have heard TOP judges say the exact opposite of each other when asked. What say you hive mind? Thanks.

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Asking for a “light seat” isn’t a USEF test and I’ve never seen it in an IEA show. I think it’s only allowed in the lower levels? I would be inclined to think you would stay in your two point but it’s somewhat of an unfair question as it’s not something seen at USEF shows.

Turn on the forehand is done from the halt. You halt, turn, stay halted. Turn on the haunch must be done from the walk. There was much debate on how to finish the turn at USET finals quite a few years ago. Everyone agreed that you should walk into the turn but no one could quite decide if you walk out and when/if you halt. Even the BNTs were split. In the end, the judges (Anne Kursinski was one, I don’t remember the other) didn’t care one bit. You’d have to look it up to find what is textbook correct, Anna Jane White-Mullins book might have an answer.

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Yes - the light seat is once in a blue moon requested for the low levels and you wouldn’t see that asked in a rated show. Buuuuut - it is something we have seen in the IHSA/IEA type shows before.

TOF - yes - performed at the halt. For training purposes when schooling the TOF, it is often thought to encourage the horse to stay forward thinking by finishing it and then walking forward - some say a step or two, some say to leave the TOF and proceed at the walk.

First, a note about my perspective here. I am in Zone 3 and as a junior I had very old school trainer. The instruction was that you never do anything that the judge doesn’t tell you to do- so if the judge says “walk and reverse,” you reverse and halt, because Simon didn’t say walk on. Etc. I posted something about this a few years ago after participating in an equitation class that included riders of multiple generations, some of whom reversed and halted and some of whom reversed and walked. I will say that the ONLY COTHers who agreed with reverse and halt in that scenario were ALSO in my state and ALSO rode with instructors from a similar school. I am an announcer and asked a fair number of judges about this- at least as of 5 years ago, the people I asked were evenly split and those who did say “yes, you halt” also noted “it’s a Maryland thing” or “it’s a Virginia thing.” It’s possible that there are also some regional differences that may apply to what people in your area would commonly do if given an instruction like the ones you posit.

So, for #1, I would say you hope that doesn’t happen :slight_smile: but I would remain in half seat, as I had not been told to sit the saddle.

In the equitation section of the USEF rulebook, under the list of tests, it’s specified that turn on the forehand may be called for from walk or halt. Turn on the haunches must be done from the walk. By the way, for what it’s worth, in my region and zone half-seat at walk or trot is a common direction in all levels of IHSA and IEA class.

The rulebook does not specify in which gait to exit from the turn. I would exit at the pace at which I began. So, if the instruction were “walk, show a half turn on the forehand,” I would walk, show a half turn on the forehand, and walk on. If it were to halt and turn, I would halt, turn, and, after having performed the turn, halt and await further instruction. If it were to halt and reverse, no method specified, the only correct maneuver is to reverse with a turn on the forehand.

In reality, in IEA classes, my experience as the announcer at quite a few regional and zone finals is that your judge will be very specific about what they want, and if the announcer does not relay that exactly, the announcer will be corrected. I think it is unlikely that your riders will be given any imprecise directions.

I also think it is unlikely that your riders will be asked to show a turn on the forehand unless the show host can guarantee that every horse in the draw for the open division is schooled to it. I say this with love towards the many wonderful school horses in our region and zone… I don’t think that would happen in my neck of the woods. (Again, as an announcer, I have had the judge ask me- “Any idea if these horses counter canter?” in a particularly strong open flat class. I did have an idea… The judge selected another test.)

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Wow, I cannot imagine calling for a counter canter at any IEA or IHSA show, other than maybe at nationals. I just would not expect all the horses to be up for it, unless someone told me ahead of time that it was their specialty.

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It was a very good class of riders and most of the horses would have been up for it, but only most! I’m glad the judge asked first. (She knew I belonged to the host farm.)

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Yes, there’s always (at least) that one horse at those shows. Lol.

The perils of the open division: 50% of the horses are privately owned, often by a kid in that class hoping to draw their own; 30% are show horses; 15% are wonderful gold-plated school horses who don’t really understand contact and only have a lead change one way; one horse shows in the Maclay and either wins the class or is too broke and swaps to the counter lead both directions and the kid has no idea how she made that happen… and the last horse got into the division because the intended participant threw a shoe the night before and this one has the capability to be civil if longed for an hour beforehand and given a very tactful ride, but you can neither sit down on its back (it bucks) or touch its mouth (it rears.)

It’s very unfortunate when the latter is brought to zones.

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At the other end of the spectrum, many years ago we had a little miscommunication at the farm, and the horse that was put on the truck as a loaner for an IHSA show was a superstar equitation horse in the middle of his winter vacation. Every kid who showed him that day won their class. It was hilarious.

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Draw of the Day! You love when that one comes to the horse show- provided you can figure out how to ride it (and not to ask for anything you didn’t intend.)

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Still remember drawing one of the last type. They told me not to touch his mouth, which I took literally, and won my class. The other people who drew him did not have as good of a day. He really took offense to contact.

I miss IHSA. Those were some chaotic fun times.

Dear god I thought I had quoting figured out on the new forum, but trying to do it from my phone was a hot mess and I gave up.

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We were not at the show, but I heard from multiple witnesses that after they saw him go in the first class, everybody who drew him was pretty much jumping up and down in delight. Lol.

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So as an IHSA coach and IEA judge, I teach my riders to do no more than the judge asks. If the judge asks for a 2 point position you stay in that until they say to return to a seated position including through transitions.

For the turn on the forehand - it should only be done from the halt. It is a stationary movement where the horse pivots around the inside front leg. Once the turn is completed it is ok to walk forward one or two steps to reestablish forward motion and then halt until told to walk (or trot or canter) forward again. The turn on the haunch should only be done as a forward movement and you continue forward upon completion.

That said - a judge should never ask for a movement they don’t know that all horses are capable of performing in an IHSA or IEA show.

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I think the rule changes to the eq tests passed USEF and become effective 12/1/2021? This includes having TOF only be from the walk.

I had a trainer who had also ridden saddle seat and was very precise on her eq tests. She said never do more than asked, but also said to go back to what you were doing. So a TOF from the halt you’d do it and halt and not move until receiving further instructions. But if they had you do it from the walk you’d keep walking. If it was specified as a walk-only movement and they called for it from the walk, she probably would have said to halt, do the movement and then walk.

I love these sort of discussions. :orange_heart:

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But you were walking, they asked you to reverse. They did not ask you to halt, so why would you, based on the ‘don’t do anything the judge doesn’t ask you to do’? What if you were asked to reverse at the trot? Or if the instruction was ‘change direction’?

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Because you were told to reverse but you weren’t told to continue moving after turning around.

Honestly, in the class I referenced where the command was “Reverse” and half the class reversed and continued at the walk and the other half halted, it was an interesting case study in old-school/new-school/where’d-you-grow-up demographics. I reversed and halted and won the class, for what it’s worth, but for all I know the judge threw up her hands on that movement and just didn’t care what anyone did given the variance in what was performed. At this point, rather than do the calculus of where the judge lives, I just hope not to hear it.

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I grew up riding with an old school trainer similar to Renn, and if we were not told to reverse and continue at the gait, we were expected to reverse and that’s it.

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I wonder if it is somewhat of a generational thing as well. If I called for a reverse, and anyone reversed and halted, I would wonder what was going on, unless they were asked to reverse at the halt.

I will say that most announcers seem to automatically add the words “and walk” after they say reverse. So maybe they have seen it go the wrong way in the past. Lol.

Are you calling me old??? :astonished: :frowning_face:

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Not you personally! I thought you said you learned it from your trainer, who was indeed old school. Lol.