equitation point extension?

[blondewithchrome]

Many of the shows’ qualifying season started last fall Im pretty sure (like WIHS eq, which started September 1 2019 and ends in August) - so, many kids started trying to qualify in the fall and have had a solid 6 months of showing before March shows got cancelled. I don’t think showing for half the season would constitute getting another FULL year of eligibility if you don’t qualify for finals. IMHO (and my completely don’t have a horse in this race opinion), they shouldn’t get the additional year. Many have already qualified. For some, I could see points getting relaxed or something like that, but a whole additional season? Nope.

im curious to see what they all do, but I think it’ll be a final-by-final basis. I noticed this thread is just about equitation, not hunters/jumpers. Big eq is hard because it is such a big part of junior careers and there is no adult equivalent. FWIW, I don’t think hunter or jumper junior eligibility should be extended either. There is lots of life in the adult jumper and hunter worlds, it ain’t so bad!

[findeight]

@blondewithchrome

Many of the shows’ qualifying season started last fall Im pretty sure (like WIHS eq, which started September 1 2019 and ends in August) - so, many kids started trying to qualify in the fall and have had a solid 6 months of showing before March shows got cancelled. I don’t think showing for half the season would constitute getting another FULL year of eligibility if you don’t qualify for finals. IMHO (and my completely don’t have a horse in this race opinion), they shouldn’t get the additional year. Many have already qualified. For some, I could see points getting relaxed or something like that, but a whole additional season? Nope.

im curious to see what they all do, but I think it’ll be a final-by-final basis. I noticed this thread is just about equitation, not hunters/jumpers. Big eq is hard because it is such a big part of junior careers and there is no adult equivalent. FWIW, I don’t think hunter or jumper junior eligibility should be extended either. There is lots of life in the adult jumper and hunter worlds, it ain’t so bad!

Thank you. This. The qualifying window is not the same as the show year. So Jrs aging out this year have been out showing since…is it September when the points cut off for current year and start accumulating for the next?

So those Jrs getting another year will have had most of this year as their “Final year”. The year they get everything their folks can provide for that swan song season? Then they get a whole other year do over as up to 20 year olds?

How is that fair to the Jrs aging out in 2021 who only get one swan song year?

Curious how many of the 2020 aging out Juniors would even want to or be able to afford yet another year on the Big Eq circuit? Theres college for one thing. Theres horses with expiring leases already spoken for. Theres flattened budgets. And theres burned out young adults ready to move on.

Points can be adjusted to reflect no opportunity to earn points towards qualifying March thru…mid or late summer. Maybe they can extend the deadline for 2020 points if some late summer shows do run. Or go with whats on the books as of March.

But no full extra year of eligibility. As mentioned earlier, if you do that then you have to bump the ages of Small and Medium Pony riders plus maybe go 19 with the Larges and Greens as those kids were also deprived if a big chunk of what could be their last year and all the age group Eq splits and Hunters too. Everybody lost a portion of their year, maybe their last in that division.

Why would it be fair to give an extra year to some but not all as opposed to just going by the shows they did compete at since a good many shows did run?

[Alterforme]

I have a question- If the point system starts Sept 1st.
Why is Dec 1st the date for age determination?
just curious. I know a girl with a birthday - Nov 22 & her friend has a Dec 10 Birthday. They are only about 2 weeks apart in age, but the one girl gets an extra year.
Why not have the point date & age date the same? Is there a reason they are different?

[findeight]

The Medals have their own qualifying year start and cut off, probably because when they were started back when, the horse show season was spring to fall with no 20 weeks of Winter Circuits. Show year started in Florida around Presidents Day Weekend and wrapped up at Indoors in late October. People took a break from TG until Feb. Now we show all year but those qualifying windows remain the same, No real reason to change. Pony Finals has a qualifying window different from the show year as well.

Dont get that confused with show year and riders show age starting Dec 1st. Or horse age which is age on Jan 1st. They are arbitrary, long as all are aware of them, no reason to change anything.

Its like determining what grade a school kid gets placed into based on birthdate. Same reasons.

[Pennywell_Bay]

I don’t think an extension should be granted. It is quite a disappointment. I not calling any of the juniors brats. The shutdown effects a lot of events people work all year for, including Pony Finals. Where would it end?

I’m sorry for those who are aging out. It’s across the board.

[blondewithchrome]

@Alterforme

I have a question- If the point system starts Sept 1st.
Why is Dec 1st the date for age determination?
just curious. I know a girl with a birthday - Nov 22 & her friend has a Dec 10 Birthday. They are only about 2 weeks apart in age, but the one girl gets an extra year.
Why not have the point date & age date the same? Is there a reason they are different?

great question. I have no clue why it is that way but I do know you have to be 17 or younger when you show in the finals with the exception of USET. So, those 17yos who show in the fall of 2020, but become adults on dec 1 are NOT eligible for finals in 2021. They can still show in the classes but won’t be able to show in the finals as they are adults.

So, it doesn’t really matter that the dates don’t align because you are qualifying for the 2020 finals before you age out, and classes in sept-oct-nov aren’t for the 2020 finals. It’s just the way the calendar works with cutoff for planning/entries/invitations before the final 4-8 weeks of the show year when those 17yos have their final few weeks of showing.

im rambling. I hope that makes sense! Lol.

[MrsFitzDarcy_amp_Feliks]

@ynl063w

No. Welcome to adulthood, snowflakes.

Dog shows are extending junior years due to covid. It’s not impossible.

[AllOverFarm]

I’d be interested to know what the trainers at the top think of the idea of extending the jr year, for those aging out. Heritage, Beacon Hill, Ashland, North Run, DSS., etc

the online Petition is at 6k signatures currently.

[sopha]

There is a historical precedent. In 1946, Maclay finals for 1943, 1944, 1945 as well as 1946 were held. Qualifying shows happened in those years, but due to the Second World War, the National Horse Show was not held. Those juniors who were qualified were able to compete in their years’ final. For example, someone who qualified for the 1943 Maclay final and was 17 at that time, was able to show in 1943 final, even though they would have been 20 in 1946. They would not have been able to qualify for subsequent years. I imagine there were people that were able to show in all 4 years’ finals that year!

[Peggy]

USHJA has modified qualifying requirements for their medals and hunter finals. https://www.ushja.org/news/ushja-news-1/letter-membership-ushja-championships-qualifying-update

One of the local associations (LAHJA) likewise modified the qualifying requirements for their various medals to riding in a qualifying class or qualifying for last year.

[endlessclimb]

This goes for everyone wanting to be a real POS during this time -

Yes, COVID sucks. We’re all aware of it because we’re all living it. No one is dismissing that. My best and only friend in this world is a NICU nurse on rotation to the ICU. I’m aware. I’m close. I see it. I got it.

But for any one of you to dismiss the disappointment of someone who can’t go to prom. Who can’t compete in finals. Who won’t walk the stage to receive their diploma. Who can’t go play with their friends for the 4th week in a row. Whose plans to be baptized got dashed.

… is absolute and utter BS. How dare you? Those pains are real, and you don’t get to decide that they don’t mean anything because your priorities and life experiences are different, and because you think this issue trumps all other heartbreak. Did you speak in the same way when we were neck deep in Iraq and Afghanistan? “Your problems don’t matter because of [insert any horrible event going on around the world], you’re just a whiner.”

Every single poster who has made a statement like that on these boards has been forever clouded in my mind. It’s such a selfish, self centered thing to dismiss someone’s heartbreak because yours/ours is deeper. There will ALWAYS be something worse than what you’re [g] experiencing. Your heartbreak over something, anything is not negated because there are children suffering in 3rd world countries. Of course, if one were to put everything on a single scale, there’s going to be a difference. But it’s all relative, and also relative to one’s life experiences. No one person’s heartbreak and disappointment is less valid than another’s.

Next time someone’s loved one or their horse dies, they should just shut up because someone’s whole entire family just got blown to smithereens in Syria… right? No.

So, “who gives a fock?” I give a fock.

OP, I’m sorry for the situation you’re in. While it certainly isn’t life-threatening, I understand that working really hard towards one goal, and then getting that goal abruptly removed from your grasp must really suck. I hope they can find a solution that can resolve the disappointment the unexpected shutdown inadvertently caused. Otherwise, I’m sorry for the opportunity lost, and hope it doesn’t discourage you or your kid from riding. It isn’t a fair situation to anyone, that’s for sure.

[RainWeasley]

@endlessclimb

This goes for everyone wanting to be a real POS during this time -

Yes, COVID sucks. We’re all aware of it because we’re all living it. No one is dismissing that. My best and only friend in this world is a NICU nurse on rotation to the ICU. I’m aware. I’m close. I see it. I got it.

But for any one of you to dismiss the disappointment of someone who can’t go to prom. Who can’t compete in finals. Who won’t walk the stage to receive their diploma. Who can’t go play with their friends for the 4th week in a row. Whose plans to be baptized got dashed.

… is absolute and utter BS. How dare you? Those pains are real, and you don’t get to decide that they don’t mean anything because your priorities and life experiences are different, and because you think this issue trumps all other heartbreak. Did you speak in the same way when we were neck deep in Iraq and Afghanistan? “Your problems don’t matter because of [insert any horrible event going on around the world], you’re just a whiner.”

Every single poster who has made a statement like that on these boards has been forever clouded in my mind. It’s such a selfish, self centered thing to dismiss someone’s heartbreak because yours/ours is deeper. There will ALWAYS be something worse than what you’re [g] experiencing. Your heartbreak over something, anything is not negated because there are children suffering in 3rd world countries. Of course, if one were to put everything on a single scale, there’s going to be a difference. But it’s all relative, and also relative to one’s life experiences. No one person’s heartbreak and disappointment is less valid than another’s.

Next time someone’s loved one or their horse dies, they should just shut up because someone’s whole entire family just got blown to smithereens in Syria… right? No.

So, “who gives a fock?” I give a fock.

OP, I’m sorry for the situation you’re in. While it certainly isn’t life-threatening, I understand that working really hard towards one goal, and then getting that goal abruptly removed from your grasp must really suck. I hope they can find a solution that can resolve the disappointment the unexpected shutdown inadvertently caused. Otherwise, I’m sorry for the opportunity lost, and hope it doesn’t discourage you or your kid from riding. It isn’t a fair situation to anyone, that’s for sure.

Absolutely agree. If they can work out a way to let them have at least some of that experience back, I don’t feel like that makes them special little snowflakes at all. They may be close to being technically considered young adults, but they are still kids. I’m not in the HJ world, but I honestly couldn’t really see why it would be so awful to let ALL the age divisions have another year for those that age out, or at least a modified year. This doesn’t feel like a “wealthy kids get more privilege” situation, this feels like a “let’s help all of these kids salvage what they can of the end of their childhood” situation. And I feel like we will probably see a lot of that once this is over. Makeshift proms and graduations and other big events the kids missed.

[APirateLooksAtForty]

So does the kid who breaks their leg in spring of their last jr junior year get a do over as well? Genuinely curious to hear your thoughts.

[ynl063w]

@endlessclimb

This goes for everyone wanting to be a real POS during this time -

Yes, COVID sucks. We’re all aware of it because we’re all living it. No one is dismissing that. My best and only friend in this world is a NICU nurse on rotation to the ICU. I’m aware. I’m close. I see it. I got it.

But for any one of you to dismiss the disappointment of someone who can’t go to prom. Who can’t compete in finals. Who won’t walk the stage to receive their diploma. Who can’t go play with their friends for the 4th week in a row. Whose plans to be baptized got dashed.

… is absolute and utter BS. How dare you? Those pains are real, and you don’t get to decide that they don’t mean anything because your priorities and life experiences are different, and because you think this issue trumps all other heartbreak. Did you speak in the same way when we were neck deep in Iraq and Afghanistan? “Your problems don’t matter because of [insert any horrible event going on around the world], you’re just a whiner.”

Every single poster who has made a statement like that on these boards has been forever clouded in my mind. It’s such a selfish, self centered thing to dismiss someone’s heartbreak because yours/ours is deeper. There will ALWAYS be something worse than what you’re [g] experiencing. Your heartbreak over something, anything is not negated because there are children suffering in 3rd world countries. Of course, if one were to put everything on a single scale, there’s going to be a difference. But it’s all relative, and also relative to one’s life experiences. No one person’s heartbreak and disappointment is less valid than another’s.

Next time someone’s loved one or their horse dies, they should just shut up because someone’s whole entire family just got blown to smithereens in Syria… right? No.

So, “who gives a fock?” I give a fock.

OP, I’m sorry for the situation you’re in. While it certainly isn’t life-threatening, I understand that working really hard towards one goal, and then getting that goal abruptly removed from your grasp must really suck. I hope they can find a solution that can resolve the disappointment the unexpected shutdown inadvertently caused. Otherwise, I’m sorry for the opportunity lost, and hope it doesn’t discourage you or your kid from riding. It isn’t a fair situation to anyone, that’s for sure.

LOL. I will be forever clouded in endlessclimb’s mind. Oh whatever will I do for the rest of my life? How will I go on? I did not equate anyone’s “heartbreak” with any potential “heartbreak” of my own; I simply stated my opinion that is not a huge tragedy in the big scheme of things. I stand by that opinion. If you would like to equate the bummer that some kids are experiencing because they are not able to ride in horse shows (because of a global pandemic that has taken the lives of tens of thousands of Americans) with the experience of those who have gone to war, you are certainly allowed to do so. Just as I am allowed to feel that the former is really NOT the life-altering experience that the latter is. I appreciate and can recognize a phenomenon known as perspective.

It’s nice for everyone that the USHJA has modified requirements for finals to accommodate the loss of time/competitions that is affecting ALL junior members right now instead of coming up with a solution that applies only to a special FEW.

[endlessclimb]

It may be that there’s no solution to the problem, but you don’t have to be a [edit] about it.

Empathy.

EDIT: Would like to point out, @ynl063w , that you missed the point of the Iraq/Afghanistan comment. During that time, when it was hot and heavy over there, would you have dismissed someone’s heartbreak and disappointment over a missed opportunity (promotion, cancellation of a wedding because the government shutdown and closed the national parks, whatever) because, well, grow up snowflake, there’s a war going on.

No. No you would not. So this is really no different. For the alternate opportunities that can be provided, we should be actively trying to enable that. Not poop all over it.

If no alternate is available, then yeah. Life will go on. But you can be marginally kind to those who have busted their tails towards a goal, and have had the goal swiped from under their fingertips by something entirely outside their control.

Jeez.

[MHM]

@sopha

There is a historical precedent. In 1946, Maclay finals for 1943, 1944, 1945 as well as 1946 were held. Qualifying shows happened in those years, but due to the Second World War, the National Horse Show was not held. Those juniors who were qualified were able to compete in their years’ final. For example, someone who qualified for the 1943 Maclay final and was 17 at that time, was able to show in 1943 final, even though they would have been 20 in 1946. They would not have been able to qualify for subsequent years. I imagine there were people that were able to show in all 4 years’ finals that year!

That is pretty darn interesting. I was not aware that happened. Is there an article somewhere with more details?

[Stayon]

@ynl063w

It’s nice for everyone that the USHJA has modified requirements for finals to accommodate the loss of time/competitions that is affecting ALL junior members right now instead of coming up with a solution that applies only to a special FEW.

This part I agree with. It’s not at all “fair” to anybody (junior members or adult members) if USEF allows another year for a select few, eg kids aging out of divisions. Let’s think about two kids. One turned 13 November 30th 2019 and one turned 13 December 2nd 2019. They are exactly 2 days apart in age. However, the one who is younger by two years is still eligible to ride small ponies in the current competition year, whereas the one with the late November birthday is not. So effectively, just because of the way ages are currently cut off, the kid who is two days younger gets a whole extra year in the small pony division. Now Corona virus hits and USEF decides to let any junior who is aging out of a division have another year in that division. Bur does nothing for juniors not aging out of divisions. So now the child who was born in December gets to ride a regular small pony for all of the 2021 year, as a 14 year old, effectively getting an extra two years in the small pony division over the first child born in late November, who is only two days older. Is this fair? I don’t think so. If USEF is going to given anyone an extra year, they should give everyone an extra year, juniors and adults alike. There are lots of age divisions, not just in the equitation, for both juniors and adults. USEF should just add one year to every member’s birthdates. So, for example, if you’re currently registered with USEF as having a birthday in 1990, USEF just adds one year and now you’re born in 1991. Easy and fair for all.

[findeight]

That might be an interesting idea. Might not be an overwhelming number able to do that due to embarking on new careers, college or finances but it would be something. Most wont want to compete another full year though. IMO.

Have to wait and see how quickly or even if we get some shows back up and if Indoors itself can run. IMO outdoor shows at big venues like KHP allow for social distancing and could go but Indoors is…indoors…and tight spacewise…

[ynl063w]

@endlessclimb

It may be that there’s no solution to the problem, but you don’t have to be a [edit] about it.

Empathy.

EDIT: Would like to point out, @ynl063w , that you missed the point of the Iraq/Afghanistan comment. During that time, when it was hot and heavy over there, would you have dismissed someone’s heartbreak and disappointment over a missed opportunity (promotion, cancellation of a wedding because the government shutdown and closed the national parks, whatever) because, well, grow up snowflake, there’s a war going on.

No. No you would not. So this is really no different. For the alternate opportunities that can be provided, we should be actively trying to enable that. Not poop all over it.

If no alternate is available, then yeah. Life will go on. But you can be marginally kind to those who have busted their tails towards a goal, and have had the goal swiped from under their fingertips by something entirely outside their control.

Jeez.

My opinion is that it is ridiculous to consider giving this year’s aging-out junior riders an entire additional year of competing as a junior because they are going to miss some number of months of shows due to a global pandemic. That was my opinion in the beginning of this thread, it is my opinion in this part of the thread, and it will be my opinion at the end of this thread. There is absolutely no need for you to call me names simply because you disagree. I have not told you or anyone else how to feel about this topic and I would appreciate the same in return.

I will repeat that I think the USHJA’s response to this issue is a good one, but this was not presented as an option at the beginning of the thread. The OP only mentioned providing aging out juniors with an entire additional year. I did not agree with that and I stated clearly WHY I felt that way over the course of several posts. My stance has not changed at all since then. There is no need for you to get all emotional, melodramatic, and irate simply because you disagree with me.

[lenapesadie]

Sooo. Are we going to do something with the young horse classes too?