Didn’t Margie Engle try something similar once or twice during Olympic years?
OMG how could we forget about what those poor heartbroken young horses are going through? 
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as it seems the thread has evolved from equitation points for finals to a larger discussion about juniors getting another year of eligibility - what is the point, really? If it’s for just medals that’s one thing but - for many juniors who don’t show in the 3’3 or 3’6 junior hunters, they have the adults and pre-adults to go into and plenty of 3’ medals to choose from (depending on zone). Yes, for those in the true juniors, unless they own, they’d have to adjust or step down.
Unless all these juniors are going to put college or jobs on pause to campaign for another full year - I truly don’t understand the point. I’m not trying to be an asshole, but besides things like “qualifying for JHF” or “making it to indoors” - which only a small percentage of juniors get to do anyways - how is granting another year of eligibility NOT for just the privileged few?
I know for me, when I went to college, the horse stuff was over. I couldn’t afford it on my own as a full time college student so showing was out of the question, regardless if I had had another junior year or not. I feel like lots of juniors will be in the same boat!
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It’s not the message - it’s the delivery, snowflake.
My god, you really don’t get it do you?
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There are many Jrs ( the ones with fall birthdays) that actually age of the start of their senior year in high school. I think, these are the kids hoping for an extra year of being able to compete in the jr classes.
My feeling is that the horse industry should up the age for the big equitation classes. The Jrs that get to this level are usually in the 15-17 age group. The 16-17 year being more competitive. If they increased the age to, say 20, it could make more eq horses needed, fill more classes. The classes could always be split into older/younger if needed. The talent search allows the young rider group to participate, and I don’t see it being an issue.
Well, I think you make it less about it being just for the “privileged few” if you give every USEF member another year of eligibility by simply changing their birthdates, as I suggested above. There are way more members who will benefit from that than just the privileged few who will get a redo on their final junior year. The kid who has brought their small (or insert any pony size) green pony up from the cross rails to the division who was supposed to compete in the regular smalls for the first time this year but will now age out, the juniors who have Fall birthdays who will be seniors in high school next year but due to their “bad horse show birthday” will age out of being juniors while still in school (not college), the young pro who is about to age out of the U25s, the kid who has just started in the equitation but really loves it who is about to age out of the 12-14 but is not yet capable of jumping the bigger fences in the 15-17 because of this missed year (not only showing, but riding as many barns are currently closed), the adult ammy hunter who wants another year in the more (or less) competitive younger division in their region who is about to age out into the less (or more) competitive older division of adult ammy hunters. I think if you look beyond your own small set of experiences and consider the broader impact of not only showing but not riding on the whole membership, you can see that adding another year of eligibility for everyone could benefit many. Will there be people who don’t care? Don’t need or want it? Sure. But no one is forcing them to show another year in the same division, they can still move up, or out or onwards or into different disciplines, but I’m sure there will be a lot of people who are appreciative of the opportunity. But once again, make it for ALL, so it isn’t just for the privileged few.
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What about the medium green pony that measured 13.2 on December 1, 2019, showed all winter at WEF and is now sitting in its stall doing nothing but growing? If that pony measures 13.2 3/4 on December 1, 2020, does it get that 3/4" removed from its measuring card for the next show year so that it can have it’s right to an entire year as a medium green pony? But that wouldn’t be fair for all, so lets allow everyone who owns a pony to reduce its height by up to 1" (we’ll round it up for ease of use) for the year starting December 1, 2020. Pony owners don’t HAVE to do this, but the option will be there for all of them so that it’s fair for everyone.
ETA: This post is completely facetious. It was written in an attempt to illustrate how ridiculous it is to consider giving everyone a do over year because there will never be an end to the number of people who will want to change the rules for their own and/or their horses’ and ponies’ advantages. Please do not respond to this post as though it was meant to be taken at face value; it wasn’t.
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I totally agree it needs to be bigger than just giving those that age out another year. If they’re going to do anything, they need to implement it across the board to those who aren’t “aging out” per se and are gaining another benefit. Otherwise I think it does only really benefit those small will-be-18 year olds who are able to campaign another year and put life on pause. I’m so curious to see what USEF does! I really think they need to take an all-or-nothing stance.
Eh, then allow every green animal another year to re-do the year in the same green division that it is currently entered in, regardless of measurement. But that’s really a discussion of what USEF is going to do with reinstating green years vs how they’re handling riders. Personally with your pony example, I’m not sure that there is any value whatsoever in doing the green year as a medium as ultimately (whether it be next year or the year after) that pony is going to get it’s permanent card and be a very undesirable (tiny) large whose value isn’t going to be increased by having been a medium green at some point in it’s lifetime. And forgive me if I’m wrong (it’s been a while since I’ve been involved with ponies) but can’t all ponies now be randomly measured at any show by the stewards (up until age 15 or something) and if they don’t measure they’re disqualified? So that pony who grew over the spring/summer wasn’t necessarily guaranteed, or “had a right to” a full year as a medium green, regardless.
I think there are lots of issues with horses as well - for example young jumper classes and green status. But I also think that’s an entirely different conversation from what you do with the people. And one solution for the people doesn’t mean the same solution for the animals. Or maybe it does. I’m also pretty sure that no matter what solution USEF comes up with for people and animals, there will be some who love it, some who don’t really care and some who are disappointed/angry/think it’s unfair. People have a right to their opinions on what they think the best solutions are for such unprecedented times.
Sorry, I thought it was clear based on my previous posts on this thread that the post you quoted was completely tongue in cheek. I’ll edit it for clarity so that no one else thinks I was serious. It’s pretty clear that giving anyone/everyone, any animal/every animal a do over year is just a ridiculous proposition, and completely unnecessary. Since everyone who has been competing for points for whatever class, division, and competition is in the same boat, no one has an advantage over anyone else(*). The obvious answer is to either do nothing, and use whatever points everyone has accumulated up to the shut down, or adjust the qualifying requirements for this year’s finals (if they even happen) and move on. It’s not like part of the country shut down while the rest of it continued to compete and accumulate points.
(*)Obviously those who didn’t compete over the winter are at a disadvantage; any adjustments to qualifying requirements for this year will presumably help to cover these riders.
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honestly I think we are all getting a little crazy on this LOL… the fact of the matter is ALOT of horses and riders competed all winter, heck those in Ocala or WEF probably got in more shows than my daughter will do all year in a normal year! It seems crazy to give them all another green year or all another year on a small pony for example, when they literally may have done 10+ shows this year without even any assumption of perhaps some fall showing. In at least the pony world, a pony can reinstate if they didn’t do more than 4 shows in the greens, so that seems like a reasonable cut off for all of the other green animals. Maybe we allow a one time exception for those horses and ponies who already reinstated a green year in the past.
That said, there are people who cannot afford to show the winter circuit and were planning to do most of their showing to qualify for finals this spring/summer. Therefore, I think with regard to equitations points, they really should just pro-rate the number of points needed to qualify in some way. That can’t be too hard to do, once we actually know if we will have any more showing this year and any finals to attend, just figure out the average points per state per month and subtract the months that we can’t show. Not hard.
I have also seen a local 3’6" medal finals here in my area say that for kids who are 17 show age this year, they only need SHOW in the class, not even gain points, to qualify for their local medal final. That sounds ridiculously unfair to the other kids but in fact here in my area (VA/MD/DC) there are probably only 3-5 kids max who will fall into that category and if they turn out to not be as competitive as the other kids, obviously they won’t beat them. I’m not advocating that at all for national level finals (though I do see that USHJA finals have done something like that in terms of lowering the points needed, or just opening the finals to all entrants). Obviously that is not an option for large national finals such as USEF Medal, ASPCA Maclay and WIHS, but maybe for the local finals? I know alot of kids who would love one more shot to show their stuff at their state’s medal final my daughter included :).
@Mayaty02 100% agree with your approach - the medals should just adjust down points needed to qualify so it accurately reflects the proportion of shows and competitors who have competed and earned points out of points available. Same thing with JHF or PF - maybe PF should adjust to the JHF model of top 10 in the zone or whatever so then it is just point based (and the points will be lower , with fewer shows happening).
The medal finals can still be run with only 6mo of showing. It will lower the bar for qualification, sure, but it can still happen. Here’s to hoping we even HAVE indoors shows this fall!
There is the valid argument that those Juniors who are in their second-to-last year are waiting for THEIR turn in 2021 to finally be the oldest and most experienced in the Big Eq classes/finals. If an extra year is given to this year’s " last-year Juniors.", then won’t they have an unfair advantage competing against those younger Juniors next year? And won’t that be essentially taking away the younger Juniors’ “last year” advantage? Unfortunately, it’s a slippery slope with no clear solution that pleases everyone or is fair to all.
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See above link for equitation point adjustment.
